Apple's Phil Schiller Explains Why Valve's Steam Link App Was Rejected

[alvindarkness]

I mean... if you don’t have an AppleTV already... and you’re not really looking to buy one... but a Steam app will push you over the next edge... why don’t you just buy a Steam Link when they go on sale for twenty bucks like they do all the time?

The “I’ll buy an AppleTV if I can get Steam Link on it!” Seems like an awfully weird place to draw the line.

I'm not the person that originally said it, but its not that weird a decision to make. I own both an AppleTV and SteamLink device. I've wanted another SteamLink for some time, but would now (very reluctantly) look at Android TV boxes so that I can have a device that covers the SteamLink duties and isnt just a one trick pony. That would be my first Android device, and my entry into the world of Android.

If SteamLink was out on AppleTV, then another AppleTV would obviously be my preference.

But to each their own!

 

[Regime2008]

I'm not the person that originally said it, but its not that weird a decision to make. I own both an AppleTV and SteamLink device. I've wanted another SteamLink for some time, but would now (very reluctantly) look at Android TV boxes so that I can have a device that covers the SteamLink duties and isnt just a one trick pony. That would be my first Android device, and my entry into the world of Android.

If SteamLink was out on AppleTV, then another AppleTV would obviously be my preference.

But to each their own!

Nvidia shield tv my brother. Better than both, by a mile. Plus they have their service for FREE for all world owners right now!

 

[macduke]

Dumb explanation. Can’t innovate my ass!

 

[hackenbacker]

If anything, that’s backwards. But neither needs the other. It’s a mutually beneficial relationship, and saying Apple needs Steam is just kind of silly.

Hardly. Steam is very successful without Apple.

But to look at it another way - does Apple need Microsoft Office, when it has Pages, Numbers, and Keynote? No. Would Apple be damaged by not having Microsoft Office? Yes.

Yes, making sure apps don't have malware, conform to some guidelines are important to a good user experience. But there have a few times where apps have been rejected because Apple doesn't want them released for their own reasons when it would be better for users that they are released.

And to that end, Apple needs to tread carefully, because users will abandon them if they've had enough.

 

[Dorje Sylas]

this is BS plain and simple. Apple is wrong here. They are trying to get something they don't deserve. They don't have to advertise for Valve/Steam. If it was up to them, if I used Microsofts RDP to remote into my desktop, then purchase something on amazon while using Edge, they would try and take a cut.

They'd also would force Microsoft to block porn viewed through RDP.

 

[Treq]

What apps can't be run on the last 3 or so Android updates? Everyone who uses this argument can never answer this question. That's why Android and Ios are so different, because ios NEEDS updates to get somewhat ok stability, while Android doesn't need updates, because of how it's designed. It's apps can be updated without needing a whole os update.

I can't answer that because i don't know what update they are on, or what phone is running what. I do know that the couple android devices i have owned had apps that just wouldn't run on them. That's the problem. Android is so fragmented that i can't tell you what version, flavor or revision any of them were running, or how up to date the manufacture was with current android os. It's a god damn mess. With iOS though. You know what you are getting.

 

[Michael Goff]

Hardly. Steam is very successful without Apple.

But to look at it another way - does Apple need Microsoft Office, when it has Pages, Numbers, and Keynote? No. Would Apple be damaged by not having Microsoft Office? Yes.

Yes, making sure apps don't have malware, conform to some guidelines are important to a good user experience. But there have a few times where apps have been rejected because Apple doesn't want them released for their own reasons when it would be better for users that they are released.

And to that end, Apple needs to tread carefully, because users will abandon them if they've had enough.

This app is no Microsoft Office.

 

[throAU]

I suspect that if Valve remove in-app purchase of steam content from the app it would probably be approved.
[doublepost=1527493253][/doublepost]

What exactly is the point of this app anyway? From what I'm reading, it lets you stream Steam games from a PC over the local WiFi network. What exactly is the benefit here? If you're already home, might as well play the games directly on the PC with less lag and smoother gameplay?

Can play on the couch, bedroom, etc... leaving the noise PC in another room.

 

[Torrijos]

Apple need Steam but Steam don't need Apple. Tread carefully Apple.

Mmmmm Actually....

From a Business standpoint I fear Valve understands that Steam might be on the wrong side of the future...

Today PC game revenue is still strong, but a big share of those revenues escape Valve's reach.
For exemple Fortenite, World of Warcraft and other MMOs that have their own stores / platforms.

As for AAA titles for years Consoles have been making the biggest share of the sales figures.

Consoles might be getting to a point where for a similar experience (4K gaming) they offer a much better deal than a gaming PC. (due to price inflation of GPUs and RAM because of crypto, but also because the PC market is evolving to handle the transition foretold by Steve Jobs ^^)

I think Valve is very clever with the Steam Link app and also with their communications team ^^. They are trying to strong arm Apple but probably won't get anywhere.

To be fair they are not angels, they take their share of the games sold on the store, have changing rules about who stays or not (recent polemic about Japanese style adventure/dating games), they are a pretty tough master of their store.

So their move here is clever because they are trying to ensure that anyone sitting on their couch (almost all TVs have an android OS now but I am not sure they can handle the Bluetooth controller and the rest of the features needed has good has the AppleTV for exemple), can play their Steam game BUT MOST importantly keep buying vanity items and stuff for their favourite game.
This was never about being nice and offering an experience to their customers, but about MONEY and ensuring that after the failure of their Steam Machine console plans they could still have a place in the living room where they could reach their audience.

My prediction, either they accept to send a share of the transactions to Apple (which might mean a more expensive price when buying from your couch that if you just walked to your desk), or they won't make it at all because they will never accept to block the transaction system because it's the whole point of this apps.

PS Apple TV is seeing some evolutions these days that might make it much more useful than before with Cable operator allowing it to replace their boxes.


While Valve is still privately owned it's revenue is said to be around 5 Billions...
Apple's?
229 Billions for 86 Billions in profits.
So Apple is making 17 times more profits than Valve's complete revenue. I think Apple, who isn't in the Gaming business will be OK ^^

 

[Gilligan's last elephant]

I can't answer that because i don't know what update they are on, or what phone is running what. I do know that the couple android devices i have owned had apps that just wouldn't run on them. That's the problem. Android is so fragmented that i can't tell you what version, flavor or revision any of them were running, or how up to date the manufacture was with current android os. It's a god damn mess. With iOS though. You know what you are getting.

I have never found any issue knowing what level of OS is on any device. When shopping for devices, the OS is clear to see in the specs if not written on the product label in shops or in the main menus online.

I have a Lenovo P2 that is on 6.0.1 and I have never found any app that doesn't run on it. If one does have an issue with an app a refund is readily available from Play store.

 

[Merode]

A lot of people with good points. A lot of apologists who have been absent in last Steam thread. I guess Phil's words convinced some people. To me his words lack meaning, what did he mean?

People don't even realise how important Valve is for Apple. Some people from what I read here don't even know what Valve is and assume Steam is a company. Silly.

Here's what Valve is doing for you:

• mocked Apple when not even single Mac, even Mac Pro, was able to run VR while competition was already there. Even now, only top of the line 27" iMac and iMac Pro are the only two Macs capable of VR
  
• launched SteamVR as soon as possible for macOS even though it's small market
• has taken large part in working on Vulkan API which makes multiplatform gaming possible and is the future
• when Apple decided not to implement Vulkan API, Valve on their own created MoltenVK - a framework that maps Vulkan calls to Metal

Valve has invested TONS of money and went out of their way to make sure people would get ANY games on macOS. Without these 4 developments the future of Mac gaming would be doomed (not that it is healthy at all).

No serious AAA developer will implement Metal because Mac is too small market. Vulkan is the future just like OpenGL before it. And speaking of OpenGL, if not for John Carmack who fought for OpenGL on a Mac, Apple wouldn't implement it and had gone for its own API back in 90s. What would that mean - you'd have nigh on 0 AAA games on a Mac.

To know all this and see Apple spit in the face of Valve is just stunning. Stunning stupidity.

 

[Michael Goff]

A lot of people with good points. A lot of apologists who have been absent in last Steam thread. I guess Phil's words convinced some people. To me his words lack meaning, what did he mean?

People don't even realise how important Valve is for Apple. Some people from what I read here don't even know what Valve is and assume Steam is a company. Silly.

Here's what Valve is doing for you:

• mocked Apple when not even single Mac, even Mac Pro, was able to run VR while competition was already there. Even now, only top of the line 27" iMac and iMac Pro are the only two Macs capable of VR
  
• launched SteamVR as soon as possible for macOS even though it's small market
• has taken large part in working on Vulkan API which makes multiplatform gaming possible and is the future
• when Apple decided not to implement Vulkan API, Valve on their own created MoltenVK - a framework that maps Vulkan calls to Metal

Valve has invested TONS of money and went out of their way to make sure people would get ANY games on macOS. Without these 4 developments the future of Mac gaming would be doomed (not that it is healthy at all).

No serious AAA developer will implement Metal because Mac is too small market. Vulkan is the future just like OpenGL before it. And speaking of OpenGL, if not for John Carmack who fought for OpenGL on a Mac, Apple wouldn't implement it and had gone for its own API back in 90s. What would that mean - you'd have nigh on 0 AAA games on a Mac.

To know all this and see Apple spit in the face of Valve is just stunning. Stunning stupidity.

Yeah. How dare they force Valve to play by the rules?! Valve is above the rules because they ... errr .... I don’t know, they just are.

 

[Radon87000]

Yeah. How dare they force Valve to play by the rules?! Valve is above the rules because they ... errr .... I don’t know, they just are.

When Uber was violating the App Store guidelines, Tom Cook gave them a warning. Any other app would have just been kicked from the store without mercy.

 

[Michael Goff]

When Uber was violating the App Store guidelines, Tom Cook gave them a warning. Any other app would have just been kicked from the store without mercy.

Oh yeah, Uber does need to be kicked out. As does Facebook.

 

[Gilligan's last elephant]

Yeah. How dare they force Valve to play by the rules?! Valve is above the rules because they ... errr .... I don’t know, they just are.

Apple initially gave approval to his app then changed their mind. That is what people are finding underhand.
Did Valve make changes after the initial approval that changed things?

 

[Michael Goff]

Apple initially gave approval to his app then changed their mind. That is what people are finding underhand.
Did Valve make changes after the initial approval that changed things?

No. More likely the initial approval shouldn’t have happened in the first place. Then it went up the totem pole and somebody went “wait, Why was this approved?”

 

[Gilligan's last elephant]

Oh yeah, Uber does need to be kicked out. As does Facebook.

If Facebook were "kicked out", iPhone sales would tank. Around a quarter of the planet are active Facebook users.

 

[Merode]

Yeah. How dare they force Valve to play by the rules?! Valve is above the rules because they ... errr .... I don’t know, they just are.

The thing is, Phil failed to specifically describe what rules were broken. Valve has said truthfully that there are other screen sharing apps which were allowed on the store. Even their initial submission was accepted.

Also, if rules are against law, those rules do not apply. If the day comes that Apple takes down Spotify for "business conflict", it'll end up with anti-trust lawsuit. Same applies here but I guess Valve is still deciding what will be more profitable for them.

EDIT: the reason was, _money_

 

[Michael Goff]

If Facebook were "kicked out", iPhone sales would tank. Around a quarter of the planet are active Facebook users.

And they would just go to the website.

The thing is, Phil failed to specifically describe what rules were broken. Valve has said truthfully that there are other screen sharing apps which were allowed on the store. Even their initial submission was accepted.

Also, if rules are against law, those rules do not apply. If the day comes that Apple takes down Spotify for "business conflict", it'll end up with anti-trust lawsuit. Same applies here but I guess Valve is still deciding what will be more profitable for them.

EDIT: the reason was, _money_

Can you get hit with Antitrust if you’re not a monopoly?

 

[VoR]

Probably not realistic, but it would have been nice if the totem pole was left alone. Maybe the first teams were applying common sense interpretations, looking at this as a simple streaming app with in-app purchases that aren’t on the phone, app purchases that are only really there for convienience and a product that doesn’t overlap the mobile gaming market etc.

The whole point is that steam link on iOS is a very nice to have feature that would have been great for certain people. Obviously the rules are a little grey when it comes to “2-way hdmi extension apps” and Apple have made a decision that’s made a lot of people think WTF... People that both understand what the app is and the reasons behind the appstore’s rules.

 

[BigDO]

Schiller is the stereotypical spin doctor. Comical Ali of Apple, really. Pathetic.

 

[cube]

He was obviously referring to "useful" controllers

Well, yes. Whether it also worked with iOS controllers was irrelevant for me.

 

[Gilligan's last elephant]

And they would just go to the website.

People like their apps and not a clunky website experience on a phone.

 

[Baymowe335]

I’m not sure about that. Yes the HomePod was pretty much DOA, but I don’t think anything could take down the iPhone. It sells on brand name alone. People would still buy it in the same numbers and just use Apple apps only for that content.

The HomePod is brand new and WAY too early to call dead, failed, or anything.

No official numbers are even published. It could be doing quite well.

“Reports” are constantly wrong about Apple, particularly rating to unit sales. See iPhone.

 

[Gilligan's last elephant]

No. More likely the initial approval shouldn’t have happened in the first place. Then it went up the totem pole and somebody went “wait, Why was this approved?”

You mean Apple are incompetant?