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Apple's Pro Display XDR Is Five Years Old Today
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I mean not really. I’m probably wrong on how long OLEDs have been around but they blow mini led out of the water
If you bought that stand in 2019 for $999 and resold it today, you would recoup much more of that investment vs. if you had also bought a $999 MacBook Air in 2019 and resold it today.And how about that thousand dollar stand sold separately? Certainly it too is worth every penny, best stand of all stands, nothing from competitors competes with that stand, etc.
Definitely needs some updates though. And the fact that the price hasn't come down AT ALL is a problem. Case in point we just bought a cheap BenQ to tide us over till the update. 5 years is an eternity in tech.
I know the marketing of it was terrible and spending 1k on a stand I find ridiculous, I don't think I would ever decide to buy it. However some time ago I made myself a theoretical mission to find an equally well-made stand for less and believe me, you won't find anything comparable. If you do, please post it here.And how about that thousand dollar stand sold separately? Certainly it too is worth every penny, best stand of all stands, nothing from competitors competes with that stand, etc.
They're certainly expensive - but there's nothing really comparable or significantly cheaper if you want a 220ppi display or local dimming (in the case of the XDR). In the case of 5120x2880 "5k" displays there's the LG Ultrafine (discontinued) the Samsung Viewfinity S9 (widely reviewed as cheap-looking alongside the Studio Display yet still pretty expensive) and some vapourware. There's a Dell 32" 6K that's somewhat cheaper than the Pro XDR but doesn't have the Pro XDRs mini-LED local dimming - so not really a direct competitor.
I don't think the Apple displays offer particularly good value but they're top-quality displays with unique features - and if you need those features, that's the price. If you don't - there are plenty of alternatives.
...and that is a problem because?
I've gone with non-Apple displays, perfectly reasonable choice, because I don't see the "special features" of the Studio Display (220ppi and TB docking) as a must-have - especially because I prefer a dual-display setup & use an external audio interface and proper mobitor speakers.
No point in Apple offering a bog-standard 4k UHD or "me too" ultrawide gaming monitor and then trying to charge an Apple Tax on it - but if I did want 220ppi & nice internal speakers & mics, I'd have gritted my teeth and bought a Studio Display, becuause nothing else really offers that.
Update them with what? The 7-year-old panel in the 2017 iMac is still way ahead of the game on resolution and image quality - the Studio Display has a slightly brighter version of the same tech - and there's not much to beat it.
Not convinced that OLED has cracked the burn-in problem to the extent that it's suitable for desktop computers (I have an OLED TV, but that's mainly displaying moving images and is loaded with counter-measures against on-screen logos and ticker-tapes et - plus, although the picture is gorgeous it is not easy on the eyes!)
Higher refresh rates at large-screen & 220ppi have been up against the maximum data rates of DisplayPort etc. which may change now that TB5 (and later DP and HDMI) are starting to see support. Plus, frankly, I think the main demand for higher refresh is from games (not a big market for Apple) and (b) touchscreen devices with very "tactile" scrolling/dragging/rebound effects (which Apple have covered with ProMotion on smaller screens).
I absolutely love my XDR. Has made me tons of money and paid for itself. I'm game if they update to promotion and new display tech.
Tandem OLED in that size is still going to be a ways off. LG just started manufacturing 13" panels earlier this year and those are the largest on the market.
Tandem OLED displays also require two display controllers. The M4 has an extra display controller (3 instead of 2) which is part of the reason why Apple used that chip instead of the M3, which only has two. The bonus is Macs getting an extra supported external display because of this, but if a Mac were to use a tandem display it would lose one additional supported display because of it.
Would be wild if the next version offers 8K display as well for all the 8K cameras out now, but I doubt it as it would likely have at least ProMotion 120Hz and 8K/120Hz might be too much bandwidth for Thunderbolt 5.
Have three of these and two studio displays. I think if you’re not pixel peeping side by side, the Studio Display seems a much better value. However, the blacks are much better on this. But it’s not to warrant the price difference. I think $3,999 including the stand should be the price for the new model - that is to say this is extremely overpriced at this point.
And the reason Apple gets away with it is due to poor scaling on MacOS. Windows handles different monitors so fluidly - it’s sad that Apple has to continuously overcharge and make people stay in the ecosystem. So they create their own ecosystem that ensures the only way to get the best picture is to buy Apple. Sad, but extremely anticompetitive- people don’t like to read this here, but Apple and all the massive tech companies seem evil and act anticompetitively. I think in the long run consumers will get tired of it. But businesses will see the value in what these companies offer.
The biggest con is that one has to buy the stand or the VESA mount. I mean the stand should be included or cost somewhere around $99. It’s aluminum not platinum. We are talking a few hundred soda cans make this stand. Is it nice and over engineered, yes but probably Apple’s most overpriced product next to the Mac Pro wheels. However, one can buy aftermarket wheels for the Mac Pro.
And the reason Apple gets away with it is due to poor scaling on MacOS. Windows handles different monitors so fluidly - it’s sad that Apple has to continuously overcharge and make people stay in the ecosystem. So they create their own ecosystem that ensures the only way to get the best picture is to buy Apple. Sad, but extremely anticompetitive- people don’t like to read this here, but Apple and all the massive tech companies seem evil and act anticompetitively. I think in the long run consumers will get tired of it. But businesses will see the value in what these companies offer.
The biggest con is that one has to buy the stand or the VESA mount. I mean the stand should be included or cost somewhere around $99. It’s aluminum not platinum. We are talking a few hundred soda cans make this stand. Is it nice and over engineered, yes but probably Apple’s most overpriced product next to the Mac Pro wheels. However, one can buy aftermarket wheels for the Mac Pro.
Price aside, 5 years on there is still nothing like it on the market.
Cumulative inflation over the last 5 years is around 20% so thats a reasonable discount right there.
You must not have checked what monitor stand you can get on the market for this price. Let's see though:
stand 1
stand 2
stand 3
stand 4 (this one is probably the best one for that price)
I'm not saying that the Apple stand is worth what they want for it. But let's not kid ourselves that it's a $99 stand.
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Also not convinced about OLED yet. I've had the same OLED TV since the last 7 years now, and an OLED iPhone, and no problem so far. But I read so many issues with Samsung OLED monitors, I'm stunned. Bit better with LG.
I understand what you mean, and I agree with you that picture quality is still either ahead or on part with the competition even after all these years.
But there's so many other things to work :
- Bezels need to be reduced considerably.
- Improve Nanotexture technology: I've read too many issues with it on the Apple Displays. Apparently it's much better on iPads.
- Pro Display XDR: Fix the fact that the stand still costs $1,000. I mean the device is so old now, they recuperated these R&D costs, so just bundle it with every Pro Display XDR sold and don't charge for it anymore.
- Pro Display XDR: Adjust the nanotexture pricing, it's decreased considerably with time
- Studio Display: Fix that atrocious webcam once for all
- Studio Display: Make it thinner and lighter (it's currently like 2X the thickness of an iMac, and it does not contain a computer inside...)
- Studio Display: It contains a stripped down version of iOS - Include the entire tvOS instead and it will become a smart display like everyone else does (I know it doesn't bring much value - but it's a low hanging fruit for them)
- Studio Display: Make the cord removable 🤯
- Studio Display: Make a universal version (no distinction between VESA mount and Stand mount)
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OLED most definitely does NOT "blow mini LED out of the water". That's an absurd and untrue generalization. Some prefer OLED. Other prefer mini LED. Both can be excellent displays.
If it was really a "$99 stand", then you would see Amazon/AliExpress flooded with exact replicas of the OEM one for $199, or even $499.
But you don't. Because replicating it (in similar quality/functionality) by the Chinese manufacturers wouldn't leave any room for profit, even at a $499 customer price point.
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My point isn’t that it should cost $99 rather that Apple spent less than $99 to make it - guaranteed. So it should be included not a 1000% markup to someone who is buying an ultra premium device at exorbitant pricing. Maybe the pricing for the XDR Pro Display wasn’t outrageous five years ago, but today it’s beyond absurd. Tech has changed. The iPad Pro has a better display than the XDR. Even the M4 series MBPs have better displays and nano texture for a tiny fraction of the price. This is to say the price of the XDR is now absurd. This happens with Apple’s products as they age to three, four and five years old. They become not obsolete but a bad buy. At $2,999, it would be a fair price including the stand and Apple would be making at least 100% markup. The greed is in the not updating products with the latest tech. With Thunderbolt 5, we should see an updated XDR type display with 120Hz promotion.
The problem still reverts to scaling. Most don’t need an XDR nor Studio display. If Apple had a “normal” standardized method of scaling in MacOS, an 8K or 4K display would be very good. Not at the same quality but we are talking less than 1/6th the price of XDR and much better values. Again it’s the ecosystem that will end up being the downfall of Apple. It’s the greed at every level. It’s the nickel and dime but more like $1k for a $99 value stand and $799 for $45 worth of Mac Pro wheels. And the tech in the XDR now costs maybe 1/5th the price but Apple refuses to alter pricing. When I bought my XDR setup, they just came out and were beautiful and worth it to me. Now, no way should anyone buy those displays at those prices. Apple will surely update with a better display at a fraction of the price. I read about “display link” is some name like this software that allows MacOS to appear much better on not Apple monitors by changing scaling to smooth it on 4K or other displays. If one could buy a 24” 4K display it would look pretty good. But again Apple knows what they’re doing. They act anticompetitively in all facets and will continue to do so until customers or governments like the EU change their practices through regulation. As a consumer, I welcome it.
I don’t mind paying more for some things, but for Apple to ridiculously scale MacOS to ensure people have to buy XDR or ASDs is anticompetitive.
And as someone who has bought several, I say five years ago everything about the price was fine except the stand. Now, it’s nonsensical.
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Of course, and like I said in few post above I even did my little research and tried to find something similar to Apple's stand to no avail. But I understand that people like to go with the crowd and laugh at something together even if there's no merit to it.
Nah - OK the stand was always a stupid bit of bad optics that brought Apple into disrepute but damage done. Now it is just idiot tax, od something to throw in to seal a large deal. More important would be to include a VESA mount (not a $200 extra - it's 4 threaded holes easily concealed in that industrial/steampunk back panel) which will be what much of the target market wants anyhow.
Except what it does contain is a huge power supply, enough to power the display and run a MacBook Pro. The current iMac uses a power brick). Not necessary if you want it for a Mac Mini/Studio, but - as I said in a previous post - the SD looks like it has been partly designed as the ultimate Mac Pro docking station which greatly extends the target market.
Why? Then it would need a remote control, and a network connection to be any use. It's going to spend most of its life connected to a Mac which can do anything an AppleTV can. The fact that it contains iOS is overplayed: every higher-end display these days needs an on-board microcontroller and OS, using iOS and an A-series processor is just Apple dogfooding, rather than buying in a third party system.
Better idea would be to add an aux. HDMI input so you could plug in another device, be it an AppleTV, a second Mac...
Absolutely... except the reason it isn't removable is because the display is already too darn thin to accept a standard IEC mains plug, so you might want to reconcile that with your desire for making it thinner...
Yup - considering that many, many competing (and far cheaper) displays have solved the apparently impossible challenge of including 4 threaded bolt holes as well as the stand on a 27" display. Throw in a height-adjustable stand (again, like every other 27" display costing 1/3 of the price) while you're at it.
I think we agree that the Studio Display and Pro XDR have "issues" but that they're not with the actual displays, which are still comfortably ahead of the game.
....but what I really, really want: make it a sensible aspect ratio like 3:2, 4:3 or at least 16:10. Seriously, it's a 5k panel - nobody makes 5k TVs so there's no economy of scale in making it 16:9? it's not like high-end TV shows are even 16:9 any more so you'll get black bars watching Slow Silo Foundation anyway...
But the thing is, it isn't. You could say it's a bit overpriced now, but not "absurd" like you're saying.
Similar speced monitors:
- Apple Pro Display XDR - 32", 6K HDR, IPS - $5000
- EIZO ColorEdge CG319X - 31.1", 4K HDR, Mini-LED - $5500
- ASUS ProArt PA32DC - 31.5", 4K HDR, OLED - $3,067
- ASUS ProArt PA32UCG-K - 32", 4K 120Hz HDR, Mini-LED - $2600
No other 6k monitor.
If you had any professional background in product design/engineering/production, you'd know this isn't just a 'hot take', it's inherently false.