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Just last week, Consumer Reports revealed their 2017 Reliability ratings - and Microsoft was dead last, with Surface failure rates of 25%. Pretty bad.

Tops (in reliability order) were: Apple, Samsung, Acer, HP, Asus, Lenovo, Dell, Toshiba, and then Microsoft.
Still doesn't make me want to buy one of Apples new insanely-overpriced models. When my 2015 (I think) MBP finally stops working I guess I'll have a decision to make.
Unfortunately, due to Apple's high reliability rate, you're likely in for a long wait. :(
 
As I said before, it all depends in how you look at these things. You articulated in excellent detail something I already stated, how Apple is more profitable in their niche than the guys with more marketshare.

But from the consumer perspective (where my point hinges), more people avoid Apple products than those than choose them. So Apple gaining marketshare does not necessarily translate to them having "better" products, like people are alluding to here. "Better" is relative, but from the market perspective, Apple isn't.

This relates to the market's perceived value. Apple could charge $1B per say, MacBook, so if they find 20 "suckers" to sell to they've beaten everyone, while "losing" in the market(share) space.

Apple has successfully convinced its users to pay more for the same capability, CAPABILITY, that is available everywhere else, and sometimes for less capability (see iPhone), just because of the way they either package things or provide a convenience or feature people value over everything else.

What that "killer feature" is varies from person to person, but I cannot think of ANYTHING I can do on the Mac that I can't do on a PC, for less money.

So from that perspective, Apple beats EVERYONE.
But from my perspective, and many others evidently, the mac has a greater capability because of being a better built machine, and mostly the mac OS.
you can do mostly the same things on a pc, if you know how or want to mess with them to keep them functioning.
I guess thats why IBM are buying Macs? Apple hasn't convinced anyone of anything, its a free country, if you want to buy a cheaper car, or computer or whatever you are free to do it.
 
I think sales could be higher if they implemented mag safe.

Yes, the magsafe removal is yet another bad design decicion made the last few years. Male lightning on the apple pencil, dropping the 3.5mm jack, charging the magic mouse from beneth, and the touch bar - resulting in years of muscle memory to be in vain.

I still like their producs, and like mac os, and i will get a new iphone, but some of the magic and really good design decicions seems to be lost.
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Was looking forward to upgrade, but I didn't buy it. Still working on my MacBook Air 2011, rendering movies in 1080p Full HD, with SD card in DA SLOT YEAH TAKE THIS MACBOOK 2017 fanboys! BAMM! BUILT IN SD CARD READER!! :-D

Pfff, all Pros use an adapter anyway.
 
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As I said before, it all depends in how you look at these things. You articulated in excellent detail something I already stated, how Apple is more profitable in their niche than the guys with more marketshare.

But from the consumer perspective (where my point hinges), more people avoid Apple products than those than choose them. So Apple gaining marketshare does not necessarily translate to them having "better" products, like people are alluding to here. "Better" is relative, but from the market perspective, Apple isn't.

This relates to the market's perceived value. Apple could charge $1B per say, MacBook, so if they find 20 "suckers" to sell to they've beaten everyone, while "losing" in the market(share) space.

Apple has successfully convinced its users to pay more for the same capability, CAPABILITY, that is available everywhere else, and sometimes for less capability (see iPhone), just because of the way they either package things or provide a convenience or feature people value over everything else.

What that "killer feature" is varies from person to person, but I cannot think of ANYTHING I can do on the Mac that I can't do on a PC, for less money.

So from that perspective, Apple beats EVERYONE.

Apple has an eco-system that is unparalleled and I imagine will continue to tighten and grow, that's the reason IMHO that Apple can and does sell as many Mac's as they do even when economic times aren't as good.
 
Asus is quite impressive. 10 years ago they were playing catchup to Acer and were best known for their EEEPcs (netbooks). Now they are a powerhouse computer company making Macbook competitors (Zenbook), gaming computers (ROG lineup), phones, tablets, monitors, routers, motherboards, graphics cards and everything in between. The fact that they have parity market share with Apple is very impressive.
 
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Did I not indicate that some love it, some don't, etc?
Thought I made that clear - apologies if I didn't make it clearer.

My comment was really about the lack of direct correlation between "keyboard/touchbar is great/awful" and Q over Q sales data.

I was really just responding to the somewhat trolling nature of the commenters that hinted at "see - and all the whiny MR users say the touchbar is awful -but look at the sales numbers!!".

There's really no way to gauge actual reception of features short of having much more configurable options for a product line and having all of them sold side by side with equally up to date internals -- but even then, only Apple would really know how it was going and what market segments really thought of specific design decisions and tradeoffs, just based upon what they actually bought with other variables being equal. None of this is going to happen of course.

Considering 99% of your post was about how unhappy you are with the MBP and how people are forced to buy a MBP because the lack of options, no it wasn't clear.

The point is, you don't know the reason that dictates MacBook Pro sales.
 
The point is, you don't know the reason that dictates MacBook Pro sales.

Nobody knows for sure, correct.

All I was trying to clear up is that anyone saying "sales are up = people love the touchbar/new keyboard" has no way to know that or prove that.

Many people will buy a new MacBook in spite of changes they don't care for, again, as articulated previously the ecosystem and preference for macOS can quickly override any specific undesirable hardware changes. Good for Apple - Bad for anyone who doesn't love the choices they make around hardware changes.

And again - some people (like you it sounds like) enjoy all aspects of the new laptops, that is not in dispute, and that's good for those people. I'm happy for them (and you).
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...and there are people like me that love the new model. I've been waiting for a single cable 5K solution for years and now I have it.

I totally agree, a single cable 5k solution is totally awesome!
That could have been done without the keyboard changes or forcing the TouchBar on everyone in the 15" market though.
 
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Apple has an eco-system that is unparalleled and I imagine will continue to tighten and grow, that's the reason IMHO that Apple can and does sell as many Mac's as they do even when economic times aren't as good.

My opinion is that for Apple, the Mac has just become an accessory for the iPhone. The iPhone is their primary product where most of their revenue and profit comes from. Most of the updates to MacOS recently have been somehow related to staying consistent with the ecosystem. Apple Watch, Apple TV, MacBook, etc... just accessories. Its not to say they aren't great computers, but they are not in the business of really innovating there any more.
 
This headline is inaccurate. The report doesn't show that MacBook sales increased 17%, it shows that ALL Apple laptops increased 17%, and that much of the growth is attributed to the MacBook. Kind of sloppy reporting, and pointless, since Apple releases exact figures of laptop sales every quarter. We don't need some analyst to make guesses.

And by the way, who still used the term "notebook" to refer to a laptop? That feels so 1996.
 
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i thought no one was buying high priced new macbooks ?

I would if my current macbook are old. it is almost 3 years old and performance is still as good. And I just got a new screen, battery and keyboard last week. looks like i can get another few years out of this.
 
This headline is inaccurate. The report doesn't show that MacBook sales increased 17%, it shows that ALL Apple laptops increased 17%, and that much of the growth is attributed to the MacBook. Kind of sloppy reporting, and pointless, since Apple releases exact figures of laptop sales every quarter. We don't need some analyst to make guesses.

And by the way, who still used the term "notebook" to refer to a laptop? That feels so 1996.

The term laptop predates the term notebook
 
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Was really tempted to buy one, but $3,500 for a basic 13" laptop just seems too much.

In Canada (specifically London, Ontario), 15" TouchBar with minimum specs combined with 13% tax is just over $3000. To the point where I feel a need to win $10,000 to buy one, still have the rest for a nestegg & feel I didn't spend my money foolishly (than just jumping in & buying being over $3000 poorer).

I know they hold their value, but it's classic Mac where you pay more for less (than PC) just for the amazing OS (I have yet to experience it), better build & elitist 'Apple Tax'.
 
If person "X" reviews a product and doesn't like it why is it a "Huge FAIL" just because it turns out it sold just fine regardless of said review? They still have their reasons for not liking it.

Its a faillure as a review because it was declared to be **** by well, the actual buyers; that's one hell of a failure huh.

The Verge calling it the best makes the whole thing even more laughable; if they had not lauded they would not be considered a garbage level review site like Cnet.
If it was indeed the best, why on earth is the quality so bad that people don't buy it?
 
I have been reading about 32 GB for 2 years now. Will this dream finally come true ? Really 64 would be better for those of us who edit 4K/120 . But I will settle for 32. Then I can finally retire my l2013 16GB/1TB. And by the way, will Apple still charge an extra $1200 for 2TB ? How about making 2TB standard and optional 4TB ?
 
But but but everybody online said the new MacBooks weren't good updates! Oops. Yeah.
Not oops. Growth doesn't indicate quality because you don't have any measurement or indicator of what the **baseline** growth rate would have been. That's a counter factual.

Aside from that, mediocre products often sell.
 
Apple has an eco-system that is unparalleled and I imagine will continue to tighten and grow, that's the reason IMHO that Apple can and does sell as many Mac's as they do even when economic times aren't as good.

Apple is (to great profit) increasingly positioning itself as a "high-end" company, so their target market is not subject to those who are impacted by "economic times aren't as good."

That is the reason why they both make so much money and will never break the niche space they exist in. Why should they, really?

IMHO, now it's become an issue of making the best products possible or making the most money.

They choose the latter. They used to do both.
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But from my perspective, and many others evidently, the mac has a greater capability because of being a better built machine, and mostly the mac OS.
you can do mostly the same things on a pc, if you know how or want to mess with them to keep them functioning.
I guess thats why IBM are buying Macs? Apple hasn't convinced anyone of anything, its a free country, if you want to buy a cheaper car, or computer or whatever you are free to do it.

An individual IS convinced when he/she/it chooses to purchase something. Thus Apple has successfully convinced 10% of the market to purchase their devices above all others. Or looking at it another way, it failed to convice the other 90%.

I prefer Macs because of how they do things, and I can do what I need to on the Macs I own (2011/2012). Through Apple's annual "removal ceremony", I cannot do what I need to on current Macs without some BS workaround I didn't need before. So from my perspective, they are less capable, while being more expensive.

My point is that all these things are subjective, but the report clearly shows that most customers aren't falling for Apple's tactics, however profitable they are for Apple.
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The "champion Microsoft" is the 90% of people that chose not to buy Apple. Do you not understand that those computers are all running a Microsoft OS, and probably also Microsoft Office Suite, and that Microsoft is a software company first?

I honestly have no idea the point you are trying to make about dongles? I can't keep up... are we bashing Apple for USB-C only or Microsoft for USB-A only?

As for the Surface line, Microsoft is not out to own market share because it would obviously make all their OEMs a bit angry at them. The Surface line is a niche player and will likely never show up on the market share reports showing the top share holders. Would you consider Ferrari, Range Rover, Tesla, etc. automotive failures because they don't show up on a market share report comparing GM, Ford, Honda, and Toyota?

The reality is if you look at segments within the PC sales, the detachable screen tablet computer is one that is growing, and Apple doesn't compete in that segment. Microsoft's Surface created the segment and now there are great products selling from all the major OEMs that you would need to consider in any share comparison.



True... you need to see year over year rates to really determine anything.



How exactly did you deduce from this article that Surface sales are sinking? See my comment above... you won't ever see Microsoft in a hardware market share comparison because they are a niche player for hardware.



How did Microsoft kill themselves with pricing? They have 90% of the PC market. If you are talking about Surface, you think that their pricing is out of line? It seems pretty much in line with the competition in the segments they compete in. They are never going to go aggressively low on price because they need to not alienate their OEM channel which is where the majority of their sales come from.

As for Windows 10 being nowhere near MacOS, that is simply your opinion. Given that 90% of PC buyers are choosing Windows over MacOS, not everyone agrees with you. Personally, I think they both have pros and cons, but are roughly equal as a whole. Apple has basically turned MacOS into a hobby because they aren't doing much to enhance it that isn't driven by something related to the iPhone which is their primary product today. The Mac has become an iPhone accessory as far as I'm concerned. Meanwhile, Windows 10 is Microsoft's priority and it shows as they've made great strides in recent years under new leadership.

THIS.

"The Mac has become an iPhone accessory as far as I'm concerned."

EXACTLY. I don't think it is 100% there but that's where it looks like it's going.

This is why I think it would be better for us (me?) if Apple split iOS and the Mac to where we have desktops and laptops running both. A (souped-up) iOS-powered, pen-enabled iMac would be awesome. Or an iOS 2-in-1. Keep those as the iPhone extensions.

Then give us a real Mac Pro and real, expandable (again) MBPs (13-15-17).

The consumer/pro matrix would still work: iOS for consumer hardware (includes phones), MacOS for Pro hardware.
 
Its a faillure as a review because it was declared to be **** by well, the actual buyers; that's one hell of a failure huh.

The Verge calling it the best makes the whole thing even more laughable; if they had not lauded they would not be considered a garbage level review site like Cnet.
If it was indeed the best, why on earth is the quality so bad that people don't buy it?
All it says to me is some people like it, some do not. The problem is there are people that are always going to buy Apple regardless, guaranteeing sales, who don't agree with Apple's design decisions. What can they do?
 
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