Apple's Reorganization Goes Deeper Than Just Who's In Charge

[mabhatter]

Apple could have had more time to work on iOS6 maps but Apple was too proud of itself. Apple still had access to the google maps data till next year and could have kept the old maps app and introduced ios6 maps as beta.

But remember Apple supports Two OS versions. iOS 5 is stil supported for another year until iOS 7 comes out. Apple HAD to release their new maps NOW in order to fully depreciate them when the contract runs out.

I don't see how Forstall was the "fault" of either failure. He was the "iOS guy" and maps and Siri back ends would be under the web services group, I cloud, ping, genius, Me...

 

[LagunaSol]

most design firms have now moved to PC-based solutions in lieu of Apple.

* citation required *

 

[SpectatorHere]

This just reinforces what many have been saying for awhile, that they need to get out of the 12-month release cycle they've been locked into and release new software & hardware when they're ready to be released.

Correct for software, but I don't think they can slow down with hardware. In fact, I think they need to be more aggressive with their hardware schedule.

Overall this is a bad sign. Major executives should not be getting axed. The fact that they did means things are far more chaotic than people have been led to believe.

What's more, they chose to realign the company, rather than rehire or promote. This shows you that Cook was worried things after the firing--not the confidence to simply get rid of someone and move on.

The take away is that lots of REALLY rich dudes can't seem to get along well enough to keep the goose laying the golden eggs.

Not a good sign.

 

[JGIGS]

Ive is like 's bull dog lol at least from the picture. It will be a good change though!

You mean Jason Statham?

 

[50548]

At first glance, I'm torn about this.

It reminds me a bit of what's happened to Microsoft:

• Releasing products after years of wandering development, instead of sticking to a schedule.
  
  
• Using one design chief across all products, resulting in throwing out great ideas like the Courier tablet in favor of Metro.

All I can tell you is this: as long as Tim Cook doesn't repeat the COPLAND debacle, I am fine with it...

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I say we get rid of this bunch of clowns altogether and get a whole new team. I haven't seen real innovation and leadership out of Apple since Sculley was CEO.

Bring back Jean-Louis Gassé!!!

If you all think Apple's move to Intel-based Macs was a move in the right direction, you have to be crazy. What in the world was Apple thinking? The Mac is now essentially a PC running Apple's Unix-based operating system...the core which was developed at NeXT. Has Apple ignored IBM and POWER?

Heck NO. Gassée can be credited with BeOS and nothing else...as for the PowerPC alliance, I'll have two words for ya: Kaleida and Taligent. No effing way, Sir.

 

[GENERATI0N]

hmm

Wish we had Steve Jobs...

 

[JGIGS]

I'm actually pretty excited by all of this.

Eddy seems to be a very competent guy, and I'd expect some stable, consistent upgrades to Maps, Siri, and iCloud in the next 12 months that'll make them real, usable services.

Craig is the one that makes me the most nervous. We've had all this "Back to the Mac" stuff for a while now, taking iOS features that people love and bringing them to OS X. I'd like to see some stuff from OS X make its way into iOS. Even as a stolen product, Android is starting to look really full-featured compared to iOS. As someone who would like to get a tablet, but can't go without UI features like multiple desktops and OS X applications like Mathematica and Xcode, I'm apprehensive but hopeful about the future of both iOS and OS X.

Does anything need to be said about Jony? The buck stops with him on all design now. That's fantastic news.

I agree with most of your post but I don't think its really fair to bandy about "stolen". You can then say apple stole previous cell phone layots and features from say RIM. Its somewhat impossible to make the same device OS's without some similarities.

 

[50548]

Apple needs a new head of product design...I am getting tired of this aluminum metal and black trend that Apple has been stuck on since what...2002? Sharp edges on everything, "everything must be thin" and tiny....I never had a more beautiful machine than my Power Macintosh 9500, and that was NOT designed by Jonathan Ive. The iPhone 4/5 is not a very ergonomically pleasing device to hold...very sharp edges, an industrial design failure in many ways....Apple has lost their sleekness in design and thinks everything must be "carved" out of a block of metal. Maybe that's what they are paying those Chinese robots the low-bucks to do...

Sorry, but nothing beats the PowerMac 8600...

 

[JGIGS]

Wait....is that Mr. Bean?

Yes along with Fonzy and Jason Statham.

 

[Macist]

Sometimes I wonder whether "Jobsian" philosophy was a good or bad thing for Apple -- Apple has turned into a consumer-catering business. I miss the time when Apple dominated in niche markets like digital design, desktop publishing, and education. It was a great source of Apple pride, and a great source of pride to say "I own a Macintosh" -- I feel that no longer.

The company has changed....it's become a consumer toy company. Apple is ignoring their Pro market and deserting them, centering their focus on iPhones, iPods, iPads, and small, thin laptops and consumer machines.

The Mac Pro has been ignored. XServe has been dropped. Apple no longer makes printers...Apple cutback and discontinued their high-end 17" laptop offerings...Apple no longer offers enterprise network solutions, they have burned bridges with Adobe (once a strong partner), and most design firms have now moved to PC-based solutions in lieu of Apple.

Many more reasons, many more...I don't like the direction Apple is headed...I don't like their leadership, I don't like their current vision -- Apple is becoming a consumer electronics company and no longer a creative solutions leader -- the consumer public can see through the BS and the tide is already starting to turn....the hype is over.

I just don't take pride in being a Mac user anymore, I don't think the company is the same...it's become so artificial, so focused on dollar figures and cheap labor, on overpricing their intel machines and Chinese-made electronics...it's almost like all of these keynotes are a "phony front" to the public to build up hype over iPhone ## or iOS ## so people will drool to ditch their 3-month old device to lay down their 6-month's salary to buy a new gizmo so they can "look cool" -- the phoniness of it all is hysterical!

Oh, and one more thing...an intel box is not a Macintosh. You can never convince me that a CISC computer is a Mac, even if Apple is calling it one.

Apple were never really a big player in the enterprise space, and never in the server space. Xserve was an enterprise server with no enterprise strategy behind it.

But I'm with you on the abandonment of the professional base. It was the professional base that kept Apple going through the dark days. I remember the mid-ninities, when magazines and newspaper were starting to run Xpress on Windows and ditching Macs, that it was all over. But I bought another Mac myself all the same as I much preferred them.

When Mac OS X launched and the dust had settled everything was peachy. The old Mac OS was nice to use but embarrassingly unstable. OS X was UNIX - rock solid. There were rumours of Apple acquiring UNIX vendors and taking over the enterprise. Scientists started buying Macs. Linux geeks grudgingly started buying them too. Final Cut revolutionised professional video production.

Then the iPod happened. Then the iTunes store. Then iPhone. All these things looked great at first glance because they made Apple strong and ensured the future of our platform but that interpretation was wrong.

The Mac as a professional platform is in jeopardy. MacBooks are still the best pro laptops but that's more by accident than design. I never liked 'making do' with an iMac for professional work. What's happened to the Mac Pro?

Being an Apple user used to be 'cool' in the sense that you would adopt a minority platform because you were savvy enough to realise its advantages. Now it's 'cool' in some bland corporate way like Hollister or Starbucks. Apple is probably the most potent symbol of mindless debt-based shoppaholic consumerism on the planet. I don't care about this stuff but just throw some money at the pro market already.

 

[gnasher729]

Finally somebody with common sense. Why everyone is blaming Scott, I have no idea. I'm sure Scott and the rest of the Apple engineers had to known that their map app wasn't ready. Scott shouldn't have to apologize for Tim.

Scott Forstall was the man at the top. If the maps app wasn't ready, it was his responsibility that it was not ready. And if it shouldn't have been shipped, it was his responsibility to stop it from being shipped. If he wasn't capable of doing that, he had to go.

 

[extradryny]

When I bought my Apple computers, none of which had an optical drive, I don't remember being forced to sign a blood oath I would never buy one on my own.

I assume your question applies to the former scenario, not the latter, and the answer is simple - instead of paying for a device I don't need at all 4 times (one per computer), and everyone else who doesn't want or need one also being forced to buy one, those few who need one can buy one.

I do mean former - what me, proofread?

I would agree with your argument if having an external optical drive was equal in utility to a having an internal one. For most it's not, since it's ruins the effect of the design, and adds undesirable desktop clutter. Since it's hard to argue that having an optical drive in an iMac destracts from the design, I don't get the problem in having one. The incremental cost is minimal.

Now when it comes to laptops... I'm 100% with you. The extra weight is a serious detriment.

 

[kdarling]

Courier could've used the Metro UI style and still kept all the core selling points. But more importantly, Courier was nothing but a mock up with hype. I couldn't believe how many people on the internet thought those design and functionality were actually possible with the technology available in 2009. It was one of those ideas that look good on paper until you think about the technical realities.

On the contrary, the base technology was already done. Microsoft has long had advanced pen based R&D projects.

The Courier demo PPT presentations were just prettied up versions of the well known Codex dual screen booklet, OneNote, Thumbtack and Inkseine R&D projects.

You can even download some of the apps like Inkseine from the MS Research site, to use on a MS tablet.

Codex and Inkseine - the roots of the Courier

The Courier software puzzle pieces

Microsoft Research - the Codex project - PDF

Codex was the origin of the dual screen idea. It used two UMPC tablets that talked to each other, and already had almost all the code needed:



According to former Microsoft chief J. Allard, Courier could've been ready to go before the iPad came out, if they'd gotten a green light. (After it was canceled, some of the Courier design team came out with the "Paper" app and Allard helped the guys who made the iOS "Tapose" clone app.)

 

[j-traxx]

And Magic Mouse, which is about as un-ergonomic as any device, ever. I gave it 30 minutes but my hand cramped so bad I returned it. And I wasn't even holding it wrong.

Omg milk came out of my nose from that one! And I was drinking koolaid!

 

[Blakjack]

Forstall.....here's your box. You have from now until 2013 to have it packed.

Hows that for a time schedule?

 

[Prallethrin]

Being an Apple user used to be 'cool' in the sense that you would adopt a minority platform because you were savvy enough to realise its advantages. Now it's 'cool' in some bland corporate way like Hollister or Starbucks. Apple is probably the most potent symbol of mindless debt-based shoppaholic consumerism on the planet. I don't care about this stuff but just throw some money at the pro market already.

Heh. So becoming mainstream popular = "potent symbol of mindless debt-based shoppaholic consumerism"

The pro market seem to be dead. Apple appears to be having trouble getting developers to port to the Mac. No matter how you cut it Window users outnumber Mac users. And causal users outnumber pro users. This put Mac pro users in a very bad place. This is my guess anyway.

 

[pubwvj]

Now Apple needs to reach back and reintegrate past software into the future. All software that ran from the original Apple I onward should be able to run on the future hardware and new coming combined MacOS/iOS hybrid OS. There is a tremendous amount of great software titles that have never been ported to the new OSs. By bringing this media into the future Apple will increase its offerings and compatibility. They've already offered Windows, through BootCamp. Now that should also come into play so that the new OS simply runs all software. The computing power and memory are there for the emulation. Apple has the money. This will give them world domination in a nutshell.

 

[Mebsat]

I'm excited about all of it except for Bertrand Serlet not being back on the team. Mac OS X is still a good OS (minus the quality control going downhill and bugs I've noted many times in these forums), but it needs a level hand to guide it. And now the person who was in charge of it will have his attention divided, and given that iOS products make so much more money than Mac OS X, I'd imagine his attention won't be equally divided. I wonder if Apple is trying to woo Serlet back. I would like to think they are.

It was interesting that in the iPad Mini event, Serlet was sitting right behind Mansfield and Ive. Every time the camera panned the audience, it was impossible to miss him.

Considering that Mansfield basically quit and is now part of the new triumvirate of product design, there is probably a lot going on behind the scenes. But with OSX and iOS combining, where would Serlet fit?

There is a lot we don't know. I'm nervous about Forstall being kicked to the curb, seems very reckless. Maybe Ive threatened to follow Mansfield and the rest is damage control. Ive had wanted to move back to England.

 

[Tinyluph]

At first glance, I'm torn about this.

It reminds me a bit of what's happened to Microsoft:

• Releasing products after years of wandering development, instead of sticking to a schedule.
  
  
• Using one design chief across all products, resulting in throwing out great ideas like the Courier tablet in favor of Metro.

Seeing as how there is almost no collaboration across Microsoft's divisions, this change doesn't remind me of them at all.

 

[FirePhantom]

I, for one, welcome the new Triumvirate.

 

[charlituna]

Apple could have had more time to work on iOS6 maps but Apple was too proud of itself. Apple still had access to the google maps data till next year and could have kept the old maps app and introduced ios6 maps as beta.

Unfounded rumor based on repeated misquotes of a single source that said no such thing. Which is why John and Jim didn't confirm it.

The actual statement said they decided with a year left in the contract that they were done. Not the same thing

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A product should only be released when it's more or less finished (I agree that's debatable, but time-driven release is absurd). I always wondered why a Beta version of Siri saw the day of light. If I remember well Jobs was still around when that happened.

Voice based systems like Siri need millions of samples to learn how to function. That is why she went out in Beta. Steve knew this as well

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Examples; thin & light phone but with poor battery life,

Due to Forstall's crappy software

imac...super thin if looking from the side, but no optical drive, non expandable ram, ect.

Issues only for a small cut of users. The majority of the target group won't be bothered at all.

 

[Prallethrin]

It was interesting that in the iPad Mini event, Serlet was sitting right behind Mansfield and Ive. Every time the camera panned the audience, it was impossible to miss him.

Considering that Mansfield basically quit and is now part of the new triumvirate of product design, there is probably a lot going on behind the scenes. But with OSX and iOS combining, where would Serlet fit?

There is a lot we don't know. I'm nervous about Forstall being kicked to the curb, seems very reckless. Maybe Ive threatened to follow Mansfield and the rest is damage control. Ive had wanted to move back to England.

I think Mansfield is just old and wants to retire. Figuring his successor was ready, he went ahead and announce his retirement. Of course things didn't quite work out.

Forstall ... the guy was clashing with Ive, over skeuomorphism**, and splitting the company. Too many cooks spoil the broth. One of them had to go or the company will be stuck with "indecisive" leadership on the UI front.

Given Forstall's reputation and his department not doing too well, people have been whining iOS is not improving fast enough, no surprise he got the sidelined.

** Many people outside of Apple don't like it either.

 

[charlituna]

I have a feeling that the Siri founders left Apple because of the absurd time-driven approach.

You would likely be wrong. It's a classic buyout move for the old bosses to stick around for the transition and that's all.

 

[krravi]

And Magic Mouse, which is about as un-ergonomic as any device, ever. I gave it 30 minutes but my hand cramped so bad I returned it. And I wasn't even holding it wrong.

You are so right about the magic mouse. I felt the same way. But after using it and see it flick the pages left and right as if it were responding to my thoughts rather than actions, I just cant let it go. Now my hands look like they have arthritis.

Tried the magic trackpad. Loved it. But the angle leaves much to be desired. They had to have that angle to match the wireless keyboard(Form rules function again) but it gets tiring after a while. One of these days I will have to try to get used to it.

 

[charlituna]

I find it funny how Ive doesn't even attempt a smile.

It's a British thing. When you get knighted you aren't allowed to smile in photos anymore

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Maybe he can start using the head tilt, look how brilliant my design is pose

Image

Wouldn't you feel like an ass if you found out that he has a physical disorder and that's why he holds his head in a tilt.

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Finally somebody with common sense. Why everyone is blaming Scott, I have no idea. I'm sure Scott and the rest of the Apple engineers had to known that their map app wasn't ready. Scott shouldn't have to apologize for Tim.

Unless you have a verifiable source, don't be so sure. Scott may have been the one to say it would be ready and Tim trusted him to follow through