Apple's Retail Store Staff Compensation Criticized

[AppleDude]

It's an Entitlement World

The new report takes the stance that Apple is not paying its retail staff enough given the success of the stores...

With capitalism in general, and certainly with Apple retail stores, if an employee and employer agree that $x per hour is fair, there's no reason to criticize Apple for paying $x/hour. Whether that employee's effort is barely covering expenses, or minting bucks, it's fair by definition (both parties agreed without a gun being held to one's head).

If apple chooses to reward its employees more than they bargained for, through higher wages or benefits, that's a privilege, not a right. I'm glad Apple is choosing to share more of the wealth, but I wouldn't have any valid argument against Apple if it didn't.

 

[blumpkin]

You actually believe that pure hard work pays of? You just need a minute to look into the world and compare people who "work hard" with people who work smart to see that simply is not true.

 

[davjaxn]

Stupid logic

I wonder how much the guy delivering Pepsi or Coke to the grocery store gets in compared to to how much Coke or Pepsi make each year. Or how much the sales person at a Microsoft store makes compared to how much Microsoft makes each year.

It isn't how much employees make compared to how much much the company they work for make, because that is never equal. It is how much the employee makes compared to similar jobs in that field. Trust me, someone selling iMacs and iPhones at an Apple store is making much more than the person next door to them selling Shoes at a shoe store.

 

[procksa49er1120]

Uh HUh sure

To be fair, many companies deserve this kind of criticism, it just so happens that Apple is the target here.

Capitalism, Libertarianism, Free Marketism has never really worked. Workers get the shaft while execs reap the benefits.

I read all of the "these employees should be happy to make ~$12/hour ("still better than minimum wage"), if they don't like it go work elsewhere, a job's a job" comments but really, that kind of money is not a living wage to begin with.

No matter the job, workers have rights. Making a living wage, one where an individual does not have to worry about where their next meal will come from, whether or not they'll be able to make this month's rent, or a disaster will leave them in the poorhouse, should be a right to any person regardless or job title.

"Necessitous men are not free men" - Franklin Delano Roosevelt


---


*Full disclosure. I make money on the side by trading stocks (capitalism). I am currently holding several positions in various companies and one of them is a long position in AAPL.

Yes you are totally right because the opposite of this has worked out so well for Russia, Vietnam, North Korea, Cuba, et al who take from those that have and give to those that dont

 

[Mad-B-One]

And you know what i am sick and tired of? People like YOU who had a bad youth with a lot of hard work and complaining about other people that want a better life for themselves. YOU should have been the one complaining during your youth and no one would have been in this position today. YOU got screwed over and now YOU want the same **** for people doing the same thing today.

I seriously don't give a **** about how hard you worked during your youth. It does not matter today.

WHINE WHINE WHINE.....
You know what I'M sick of?

Apple fanboys/girls who throw around the word "whine" or the phrase "stop your whining" left and right.

People have opinions. They express it. It's NOT "whining". Get over it. And stop YOUR "whining".

Talk about an overused phrase. Geez, it practically LABELS you as a fanboy/girl when you use that word or phrase. Get over yourselves already.

And yes, I see the irony...in your eyes, I'm "whining" in this post. You know what? Get over that, too!

Complaining? LOL. More like self-defense.

And of course it matters how hard I worked! Otherwise I could've ended up on the other side of the fence, complaining about how poor I am on an internet forum.

Funny. My tip: Don't take it too personally. The simple fact that during working hours we can afford to post on a forum shows that 99% of us made it up the ladder far enough that we can see it just from a philosophical standpoint and can walk away without hurting each other's feelings. Cool?

 

[Thunderhawks]

WHINE WHINE WHINE.....
You know what I'M sick of?

Apple fanboys/girls who throw around the word "whine" or the phrase "stop your whining" left and right.

People have opinions. They express it. It's NOT "whining". Get over it. And stop YOUR "whining".

Talk about an overused phrase. Geez, it practically LABELS you as a fanboy/girl when you use that word or phrase. Get over yourselves already.

And yes, I see the irony...in your eyes, I'm "whining" in this post. You know what? Get over that, too!

LOL and then some.

I happen to be of an older generation and think that I am entitled to nothing.
Besides that I also think that I do not have to put up with BS (comes with reduced frontal lobe hardening due to age).

When my kids used to whine EVERYTHING stopped immediately and whatever they wanted was off the table. That lesson has served them well.

Obviously I understand that it is possible that one is not satisfied with a job.

But to put that on Apple is wrong, fan or not. I worded it neutral, as the "whining" applies to any job or company people work for. We all can see (I hope) that the NY Times is not fair to Apple and measures them with a different stick.

Taking responsibility of ones actions is a lost art these days.

Since we can all change what we do , we shouldn't act as if
it's somebody else's fault that we are not all millionaires.

Peoples expectations of life are not realistic and there is a big gap between wants and basic needs.

That is where the whining comes in.

 

[joopey]

I've worked retail jobs through out my college career and frankly the pay was never great and the work was always long and hard. Unless you worked on commission, working retail is never a way to earn a living wage. Hence anyone looking to work in retail should not going into it thinking they will be well paid. That's just not the way that business model operates.

All things considered, IMHO Apple pays its employees better than most. But when you are the riches company in the world, more is expected of you. I don't think commissions are the way to go, but perhaps quarterly bonuses tied to the overall performance of a store would be a good incentive. This is not something new as many corporations do a form of profit sharing with their employees. 2% to 3% of each stores gross sales would be good. Or, perhaps, taking one day's net sales and giving that to its employees as a bonus. I think Ikea does something like that as a bonus to their employees.

Again, I'm not saying Apple must pay more or be ashamed of what it currently pays, but that it could and should do more. Employees are your number one asset and your most loyal customer base. Doing a little extra to treat them well is always a good thing to do, especially when doing so is not going to cause you to go bankrupt.

 

[blumpkin]

Funny. My tip: Don't take it too personally. The simple fact that during working hours we can afford to post on a forum shows that 99% of us made it up the ladder far enough that we can see it just from a philosophical standpoint and can walk away without hurting each other's feelings. Cool?

lololol +1

 

[iDuel]

I agree with the angry sentiment expressed throughout the thread. These unskilled workers don't realize how lucky they are to be part a movement so much bigger than they are and so much more important than their individual lives. I feel like if we could round up all the true believers on MacRumors, we could petition Apple to allow us to volunteer in their retail stores, which might allow Apple to at the least stop this wage inflation. Even if we already have full time jobs, we could pitch in on the weekends when Apple Stores are the busiest. Some of us think that our duties as evangelists ended when Apple became the world's most valuable company, but really we are now in a position where we are at the top and we have to fight to stay here. Our mission may no longer be to convert people since the "rest of us" is now all of us, but it takes on different forms such as disputing the myths about labor issues in China and ensuring Apple's American labor doesn't forget what and whom it's working for.

This has to be the most ridiculous comment I've seen in awhile on these boards. I'd rather volunteer my time helping a sick person in the hospital, than save the "most valuable company in the world" money and help repair their reputation.

 

[robflys]

Funny. My tip: Don't take it too personally. The simple fact that during working hours we can afford to post on a forum shows that 99% of us made it up the ladder far enough that we can see it just from a philosophical standpoint and can walk away without hurting each other's feelings. Cool?

That is a good point. But how do you know I'm not at the public library using a public computer to post in-between looking for jobs online?

I kid, I kid....

 

[Mad-B-One]

That is a good point. But how do you know I'm not at the public library using a public computer to post in-between looking for jobs online?

I kid, I kid....

That would be where the 1% comes in.

PS: If you would do that, I would recomend Apple Retail, they just got raises - if retail is your field choice or expertise.

 

[Joe-Diver]

Jeez....what a stupidass story from the NYT....you could apply this story to ANY retailer...JCPenney, Sears, Best Buy, WALMART.....

It's retail...it's a low paying entry level job. You don't like it? Get the skills to get a better job! It's that simple.

The US has already ruined itself in the manufacturing sector due to unions and high wages...we've driven ourselves out of being competitive...so we're going after retail next? What, run every store out of business because they have to pay uneducated entry level positions a ridiculous salary? We'll just start buying everything online because there won't be any stores.

Next? My yard guy? Oh, he only gets $30 to mow my yard....that's not fair, he should be making $100k a year!

Oh, my WELFARE check isn't enough. I should be getting paid $100k a year to sit on my lazy butt and watch TV. It's not fair! I'm poor...I don't want to be poor...but I don't want to do what is necessary (education, skills, training) I just want someone to GIVE it to me.

 

[procksa49er1120]

Educate yourself...

Nothing. Except compassion, the desire to see society as a whole prosper rather than a few selfish individuals who got lucky, a sense of fairness maybe? The apparent lack of these basic human feelings in this thread, or labelling of them as 'defeatism', 'communism' etc saddens me beyond belief. I don't care if it's Apple or Walmart, we all deserve better than the race to the bottom determined by such a slavish adherence to the inhuman principles of this kind of capitalism.

And to those self proclaimed stockholders here calling the retail staff undeserving monkeys, what exactly was it you did to further Apples prosperity? Oh you sat on your backside gambling. I hope you're proud of yourselves.

Apparently the "life isnt fair" lecture never came down from your parents. Little Johnnys parents bought him a new toy why cant I have one... Compassion would have them buying you whatever toy little johnny got. Life here in the USA and other capitalist Republics offers you the opportunity to pursue your goals and dreams. Some people based on your parents socioeconomic status start ahead of you, but the goal of being a millionaire is still atainable. The only limiting factor is your own *********g ambition.

Ambition is the lacking quality in the entitlement society established since FDR by both parties. The consequences of which grew over time like a cancer.

 

[MacNewsFix]

So what, the NYT thinks they should pay the employees more because of the money they bring in. Such as say a commission. That's great. Now you'll have sales staff focused on making high priced sales and getting 'add ons' rather than what's right for the customer.

and the trainers etc that don't do sales will get nothing in commissions.

Great plan NYT

Well said.

I have a friend, rather apathetic about technology when compared to myself (he calls me for IT help), that worked in computer sales and invited me to work at his store during the doc com boom days. I wasn't crazy about the company's products and so declined feeling that selling something I wouldn't endorse would be hypocrisy. I dropped my decision on him during a meet-up for lunch, and he began laughing. I asked what was so funny, and he confessed he wasn't crazy about the company's products either. "At the end of the day, though, I am could care less about the customer. What I care about is impressing my manager, which means bagging sales." He went on to explain that, before meeting for lunch, he had sold a $3,500.00 computer to an elderly couple that simply wanted to email their grandchildren who lived out-of-state. His manager had even high-fived him. Eventually, they bumped my buddy up to corporate sales. He now makes a very good living in IT recruitment.

I worked in retail/customer service from the time I was 7 through some college years. I found it mind-numbingly dull. If someone chooses to work in that field, kudos to them. However, I like that when I go into an Apple Store or recommend someone to visit one, I know that the salespeople are not tempted into pressuring them into buying a Mac Pro when they can get by with a Mac mini. I'm also willing to allow them to push AppleCare (not a bad idea in most circumstances IMHO, especially with laptops that get jostled a lot) and One-to-One (an amazing deal).

I don't understand why Apple is expected to have the highest paid employees in retail just because Apple Inc is very successful presently. The salaries and benefits seem pretty competitive or better than many other retailers. I read recently that an Apple Genius makes as much or more per hour than many nurses. Having many friends who work in health care (including nursing), I can honestly say that, after hearing their stories, I'd rather deal with a hostile customer having difficulty with her iMac than insert a Foley catheter.

 

[robflys]

LOL and then some.

I happen to be of an older generation and think that I am entitled to nothing.
Besides that I also think that I do not have to put up with BS (comes with reduced frontal lobe hardening due to age).

When my kids used to whine EVERYTHING stopped immediately and whatever they wanted was off the table. That lesson has served them well.

Obviously I understand that it is possible that one is not satisfied with a job.

But to put that on Apple is wrong, fan or not. I worded it neutral, as the "whining" applies to any job or company people work for. We all can see (I hope) that the NY Times is not fair to Apple and measures them with a different stick.

Taking responsibility of ones actions is a lost art these days.

Since we can all change what we do , we shouldn't act as if
it's somebody else's fault that we are not all millionaires.

Peoples expectations of life are not realistic and there is a big gap between wants and basic needs.

That is where the whining comes in.

Agreed. When my daughter starts whining, all bets are off the table here, too as well.

And, taking responsibility is indeed a lost art nowadays.

By the way, I wasn't referring to just this thread about "whining" and how overused it is on these boards....search this website and ESPECIALLY the support forums on apple.com for the word derivative: "whine". You will be ASTOUNDED!!!!

 

[Mad-B-One]

This has to be the most ridiculous comment I've seen in awhile on these boards. I'd rather volunteer my time helping a sick person in the hospital, than save the "most valuable company in the world" money and help repair their reputation.

Be aware you might have been trapped by "sarcasm" - "sarcasm" is a common subspicies of "forum troll humor."

 

[patohi]

I wonder what the turnover rate is?..... If I could get the same money working at a less busy store I would... Not to mention one where you get to sit down from time to time... All the apple stores I've been to have been very busy... Standing moving around 8 hours a day... no thanks.... I think it's smart to reward your frontline keep turnover down... I would work a less stressful job for a buck or 2 less.. Wouldn't you?

 

[nick_elt]

They are selling electronics. They are selling electronics. They are selling electronics.

In case you missed it they are selling electronics. It's not strenuous physical labor. They are not 1000's of feet above or below ground. They are not working in hazardous conditions, with heavy machinery or around any number of things that could kill or injure them. They are not even doing skilled delicate tedious work that requires years of training. They are selling electronics.

not only are they selling electronics they hardly have to do much "selling" as everyone knows everything about all of apples products already pretty much.
stupid story.
end.
of.
thread.

 

[robflys]

That would be where the 1% comes in.

PS: If you would do that, I would recomend Apple Retail, they just got raises - if retail is your field choice or expertise.

LOL. Nah, been there done the retail thing for 15 years through high school, college, and then after.

Then I went to Law School, practiced full-time for 10 years then pursued my true passion and now I fly Learjets for a charter company, flying celebrities, athletes and just general-run-of-the-mill crazy rich people (basically those "1 Percenters"...) all over the place and practice law on the side.

There is definitely a place for retail jobs...just not a career path (anymore...but that used to be a different situation when you COULD do retail and support a family, and have upward mobility, and . . . . . I digress.....).

 

[JayInNJ]

I don't understand why people are so upset about higher wages. Yeah it is retail, but these people do more than just ringing up high ticket items. Often they are providing solutions to you and your idiotic family members that cannot figure anything out or refuse to use google. These people are the reason customers go to apple stores and not walmart, target or best buy. I don't see anything wrong with looking for ways to retain or attract good employees.

So you assume they are not being retained? There is no reason to pay anyone more than what they are willing to work to for. If you can get qualified employees at $12/hr that is what you pay. I also believe these retails employees are not crucial to Apple's success. The store may be, but none of these retail employees are so skilled that they can't be easily replaced by another willing candidate.

If Apple's pay was too low then they wouldn't have enough employees and that is clearly not the case, as I have never seen so many employees in such a small store before.

Also, there is no reason these retail employees should be making more than those at any other mall store (like a shoe store). Just because the Apple items retail for 1000s of dollars doesn't mean they deserve higher pay then someone who is selling $100 items.

 

[ngenerator]

INB4 PRSI'ed

 

[dvkid]

Many companies use their popularity to get employees at lower wages. A great example is Disney. Having worked in the theme parks. I can honestly say that they do their best to provide other benefits that don't tax them as heavily monetarily. The hourly wage is small, the benefits are novel, and there's a line of people out the door clamoring for the jobs.

Apple is in the same boat. They pay alright, and yet their retail jobs are among the hardest to get.

If someone is willing to work for a lesser wage because they like the company or they want to be "a part of something" then they can definitely do that. And if they don't, they can easily quit.

Makes sense that the folks commenting in this piece would be former employees. Obviously they'd be more likely to have complains (the list of reasons they left, for example) than someone who is still happily working there.

 

[bigsexyy81]

I wasn't aware that retail employees were considered skilled workers. People should stop whining.

Particularly the 'geniuses' working at these stores.

NYT really publishing this garbage?

 

[hayesk]

And you know what i am sick and tired of? People like YOU who had a bad youth with a lot of hard work and complaining about other people that want a better life for themselves. YOU should have been the one complaining during your youth and no one would have been in this position today. YOU got screwed over and now YOU want the same **** for people doing the same thing today.

I seriously don't give a **** about how hard you worked during your youth. It does not matter today.

Uhm... so, it's ok for young people to whine and complain, but not older people. Gotcha.

 

[Joe-Diver]

Then I went to Law School, practiced full-time for 10 years then pursued my true passion and now I fly Learjets for a charter company, flying celebrities, athletes and just general-run-of-the-mill crazy rich people (basically those "1 Percenters"...) all over the place and practice law on the side.

And I bet that was very difficult, very expensive, and took alot of effort and time.

But, you did what you had to do...put in the effort and dedication...to accomplish what you have accomplished and elevated your compensable value.

Kudos to you...a fine example of NOT being the "gimmie" generation.