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Apple's Retail Store Staff Compensation Criticized
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it IS NOBODY's EFFING BUSINESS WHAT APPLE PAYS IT's EMPLOYEES. why is anybody even critisizing this
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You missed the sarcasm at he end
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You missed the sarcasm at he end
Interestingly enough....has anyone given any thought to the idea that w/ all of the recent attention to the working conditions in China, that someone up the chain said something like "Wait a sec, we just might be able to additionally help out the workers in our own country as well?"
I'm not by any stretch comparing situations....the conditions as compared to here are horrendous. I'm just thinking that in this day and age, with so many american jobs going overseas, that someone may have had the class to pay a little attention to the compensation packages given to their U.S workers since the subject had already been brought up regarding overseas workers.
Please have your sarcasm unit calibrated sir...
...unless you were sarcastically replying to a sarcastic post.
Changing Times
I think that the role of the Apple Stores, and by extension the Apple retail employees, is changing - or should be changing.
The majority of people buying iPhones, iPods and iPads have had no exposure to Apple computers at all. These are the people that you want to sell to - move them from relatively small dollar purchases into Macs. And this requires skills in assessing the needs of the customer, educating them, and convincing them that the relatively large dollar investment is well worthwhile.
So maybe Apple needs different types of retail employees with specialized training, different customer audiences and differing compensation packages to address the changing times and the many thousands of potential upgrade customers who stream through their stores every day.
I think that the role of the Apple Stores, and by extension the Apple retail employees, is changing - or should be changing.
The majority of people buying iPhones, iPods and iPads have had no exposure to Apple computers at all. These are the people that you want to sell to - move them from relatively small dollar purchases into Macs. And this requires skills in assessing the needs of the customer, educating them, and convincing them that the relatively large dollar investment is well worthwhile.
So maybe Apple needs different types of retail employees with specialized training, different customer audiences and differing compensation packages to address the changing times and the many thousands of potential upgrade customers who stream through their stores every day.
People should be paid at a rate commensurate with their education, skills and contributions to the business. As an employer, I would rather pay people a little more and retain them, because the hiring process is a massive waste of time, and if you look at the numbers, you're losing money while it's going on.
As far as entertainers, like football players, remember that Frank Sinatra got a million a week in 1950's Las Vegas. It's just entertainment, worth what you want to pay, or think you can get people to pay for.
"When Lincoln freed the slaves...
"...he forgot about retail."
- Old saying among retail employees
Apple shmapple; retail is retail.
"...he forgot about retail."
- Old saying among retail employees
Apple shmapple; retail is retail.
Perhaps if Apple paid more then they could staff their stores with experienced people and not just kids.
For example, the 'business account manager' at my local Apple store is no more than 16 years old, and clearly knows absolutely nothing about even business basics. Stared blankly at me when I said I needed a VAT invoice addressed to my business and not me when I went in to purchase a rMBP. In fact, i'm still waiting for one now after calling 5 or 6 times, even to a manager, and it has still not happened. So right now I have a company asset I cannot account for, and without it I can fully expect some issues when I come to do my accounting and returns.
Apple store employees (at least the business team in my local branch) are a joke.
For example, the 'business account manager' at my local Apple store is no more than 16 years old, and clearly knows absolutely nothing about even business basics. Stared blankly at me when I said I needed a VAT invoice addressed to my business and not me when I went in to purchase a rMBP. In fact, i'm still waiting for one now after calling 5 or 6 times, even to a manager, and it has still not happened. So right now I have a company asset I cannot account for, and without it I can fully expect some issues when I come to do my accounting and returns.
Apple store employees (at least the business team in my local branch) are a joke.
I usually come here from time to time to laugh at the silly things people say, but yours is the first useful, informative and insightful comment I've read in several years. Thanks, and be sure not to waste any more of your time here.
Also, I can't handle even one full time job, I have no idea how you survive two.
While raises are pretty much always good, and I do think Apple employees could use a bit of a raise, there are a few points I'd like to share here...
The opinion that Apple should provide raises simply because they are very profitable is to me, not a good reason. It does demonstrate, however, that they are CAPABLE of providing a raise (since they are not poor), and that should influence (positively) the probability of providing a raise in conjunction with other factors, but it should not be reason alone just to provide a raise.
That being said, I do feel Apple employees should get raises, reasonable ones. And there 2 main things I want to say about that: 1) Working in retail is HARD, and anybody who has done this KNOWS this, assuming that the person working is actually trying to be good at their job. You have no idea how ridiculously rude and horrible people can be until you've done a solid stint in retail. It's one of the most stressful aspects of this type of work. For full disclosure, I USED to work in Apple retail (for a couple of years) and I've also worked in other electronics and computer retail environments (including Futureshop and Best Buy). And also, for full disclosure, before some of you say I'm just a retail worker no "better" than a burger-flipper, I've also worked what some of you might call a "real job"; I have a Master's degree in science an I've supervised research laboratories, and I have senior experience in other environments as well. My point is simply that working in retail is substantially harder than many people realize (especially in a place like Apple where (if you're a GOOD employee) you have to know a lot of complex knowledge, and don't forget how ridiculously busy those stores are!).
2) Not everyone in Apple is just a salesperson. And don't forget that in a lot of sales roles, employees get compensated by commissions. Apple doesn't. And they shouldn't, at least not directly (I don't like the commission model, as it produces a conflict between the goals of the salesperson and the goals of the customer (it doesn't in truly honest commissioned salespeople (and they do exist) but it definitely makes for a crappier shopping experience, in general). But there are MANY other roles in the Apple store, and they are difficult (I've tried a few of them). They are also rewarding positions, but none of them are easy. You have different grades of technicians (ones for iOS devices, and senior ones that are geniuses for computers). And in general, these technicians are very knowledgable. Yes you have some bad apples, and I can't speak for every store (maybe you have a bad one), but every store I've been to and worked at had extremely knowledgeable geniuses and iOS technicians (mostly ). And then there's the Creatives (the trainers and educators). They were also a very very knowledgable group (and more consistently so than the geniuses, dare I say). And finally there are other people behind the scenes that you don't see as much, such as the back of house team, and they work very very hard, believe me.
And , in terms of personality, hard working attitudes, ETHICS, and knowledge, the team at Apple is mostly great, especially when I compare it to any other electronics and computer retail environment I've worked at. I've worked in big commission based stores, and there are definitely some honest folks there, but for the most part, those types of sales-people are light-years behind the type of people at apple, I really mean it. No offence! And there are reasons for this, including Apple attitude in the retail business and their hiring practices and methods. Are Apple stores perfect? Of course not. Humans are not perfect. There's always the unscrupulous or just plain crappy employee. There's always a bad store. But are they WAY better than any other technology retailer's environment? Hells yeah.
And so, I do believe they deserve raises in some reasonable fashion. From what I know, most of them are not getting big raises (e.g. the up to 25%), most raises are just a dollar or two max.
But while I believe they do deserve raises (as do people in many other industries), they do not deserve this simply because Apple is successful and makes a ton of money. They deserve it because they are (mostly) a talented and capable and hard-working and ethical team.
That's my 3 cents.
The opinion that Apple should provide raises simply because they are very profitable is to me, not a good reason. It does demonstrate, however, that they are CAPABLE of providing a raise (since they are not poor), and that should influence (positively) the probability of providing a raise in conjunction with other factors, but it should not be reason alone just to provide a raise.
That being said, I do feel Apple employees should get raises, reasonable ones. And there 2 main things I want to say about that: 1) Working in retail is HARD, and anybody who has done this KNOWS this, assuming that the person working is actually trying to be good at their job. You have no idea how ridiculously rude and horrible people can be until you've done a solid stint in retail. It's one of the most stressful aspects of this type of work. For full disclosure, I USED to work in Apple retail (for a couple of years) and I've also worked in other electronics and computer retail environments (including Futureshop and Best Buy). And also, for full disclosure, before some of you say I'm just a retail worker no "better" than a burger-flipper, I've also worked what some of you might call a "real job"; I have a Master's degree in science an I've supervised research laboratories, and I have senior experience in other environments as well. My point is simply that working in retail is substantially harder than many people realize (especially in a place like Apple where (if you're a GOOD employee) you have to know a lot of complex knowledge, and don't forget how ridiculously busy those stores are!).
2) Not everyone in Apple is just a salesperson. And don't forget that in a lot of sales roles, employees get compensated by commissions. Apple doesn't. And they shouldn't, at least not directly (I don't like the commission model, as it produces a conflict between the goals of the salesperson and the goals of the customer (it doesn't in truly honest commissioned salespeople (and they do exist) but it definitely makes for a crappier shopping experience, in general). But there are MANY other roles in the Apple store, and they are difficult (I've tried a few of them). They are also rewarding positions, but none of them are easy. You have different grades of technicians (ones for iOS devices, and senior ones that are geniuses for computers). And in general, these technicians are very knowledgable. Yes you have some bad apples, and I can't speak for every store (maybe you have a bad one), but every store I've been to and worked at had extremely knowledgeable geniuses and iOS technicians (mostly
). And then there's the Creatives (the trainers and educators). They were also a very very knowledgable group (and more consistently so than the geniuses, dare I say). And finally there are other people behind the scenes that you don't see as much, such as the back of house team, and they work very very hard, believe me.And , in terms of personality, hard working attitudes, ETHICS, and knowledge, the team at Apple is mostly great, especially when I compare it to any other electronics and computer retail environment I've worked at. I've worked in big commission based stores, and there are definitely some honest folks there, but for the most part, those types of sales-people are light-years behind the type of people at apple, I really mean it. No offence! And there are reasons for this, including Apple attitude in the retail business and their hiring practices and methods. Are Apple stores perfect? Of course not. Humans are not perfect. There's always the unscrupulous or just plain crappy employee. There's always a bad store. But are they WAY better than any other technology retailer's environment? Hells yeah.
And so, I do believe they deserve raises in some reasonable fashion. From what I know, most of them are not getting big raises (e.g. the up to 25%), most raises are just a dollar or two max.
But while I believe they do deserve raises (as do people in many other industries), they do not deserve this simply because Apple is successful and makes a ton of money. They deserve it because they are (mostly) a talented and capable and hard-working and ethical team.
That's my 3 cents.
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To some people that are saying "they're average" or whatever.
http://www.bls.gov/oes/current/oes412031.htm
Retail salaries/wages
Median = $10.10/hr or %21,010/year
Mean = $12.08/hr or $25,130/year
In cases like this, Median means more as places (like the industrial retail shown on that page) skew the Mean/Average.
All things considered, they're getting paid well.
If you want to complain, then complain about the Retail Industry in general. /B] Don't whine about a company that's already paying more than the median and just about the mean, and offering 401ks and medical.
Is it enough to raise a family? No, but good luck raising a family on entry-level-retail anywhere. It's an entry level job, no real training or education needed, with low stress, in nice stores.
Apple is getting pretty solid amount of pay, but they're also getting 401k and medical. I used to work grunt jobs like that... no 401k, no medical. Medical alone is a god-send... I used to spend hundreds a month on medical alone until I got my first real job.
Add in the fact that many of their employed are problem college kids and such trying to earn some extra scratch or pay their college bills and it's good enough.
http://www.bls.gov/oes/current/oes412031.htm
Retail salaries/wages
Median = $10.10/hr or %21,010/year
Mean = $12.08/hr or $25,130/year
In cases like this, Median means more as places (like the industrial retail shown on that page) skew the Mean/Average.
All things considered, they're getting paid well.
If you want to complain, then complain about the Retail Industry in general. /B] Don't whine about a company that's already paying more than the median and just about the mean, and offering 401ks and medical.
Is it enough to raise a family? No, but good luck raising a family on entry-level-retail anywhere. It's an entry level job, no real training or education needed, with low stress, in nice stores.
Apple is getting pretty solid amount of pay, but they're also getting 401k and medical. I used to work grunt jobs like that... no 401k, no medical. Medical alone is a god-send... I used to spend hundreds a month on medical alone until I got my first real job.
Add in the fact that many of their employed are problem college kids and such trying to earn some extra scratch or pay their college bills and it's good enough.
Why shouldn't Apple pay there retail workers more?
Why shouldn't any corporation making record profits provide more to the daily employee who helped make it happen?
If empathy and respect for workers is considered Socialism than either your TV is stuck on Fox News, or your looking at this from the perspective that the harder you work the more you will gain. If you choose the later than you are flat wrong. If you choose the former than you need a new hobby.
Capitalism has been distorted in the U.S., but the Kool-Aid is free.
Because they don't need to. They still have more applicants that jobs, so obviously some people find Apple's wages and working conditions to be desirable.
For them to pay more than the market requires is not necessary.
That's not socialism at all. It's capitalism at its heart.
Physical labor isn't the only hard work a person can do. If so ditch diggers would be earning $32,000 a day, not Health Insurance CEO's and Hedge Fund Managers.
Working retail is hard work, if you do it right. You have to deal with people, never an easy task. You are on your feet for hours at a time. Try it sometime and see how tired you are at the end of your shift.
In collage I loaded boxcars with ironing boards. It was grueling work done under terrible conditions. (have you ever been in a boxcar when it's 100 degrees outside with a bright sun shining down?) I was paid minimum wage. That was hard work. I was also a middle manager with a consumer products company selling to the grocery industry, making big dollars per year. That was even harder work.
Apple retail employees are for the most part knowledgable, intelligent people who deal with hundreds of "people" everyday, guiding them to purchase an Apple product that's right for them. Try doing it for a month, than report back, and tell us how easy it is, and how you were being over paid at $10 or $15 an hour.
I agree! A job I had 2 years ago got me $2.50/h more than now - now I get $1542.66/month as benefits allowance (covering everything but the dogs) - versus in the old job giving me a deduction in health care for $600/month out of my salery. Benefits is everything as long as you are below $50k/anno. My responsibilies went up with the job as well though.
Whether or not we can afford to send soldiers is probably the most controversial political argument in the US.
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Pfft, I WISH Kool-Aid was free. It's not because of capitalism, and I don't blame Kraft for not giving it out for free.
Anyway, by your reasoning, small companies would pay their employees less. Then why would you want to work for a small company? The retail employees do not make any decisions, by the way. Any company success is not because of them. The first rule of capitalism is "supply and demand", and there is a high supply of people who can work in the Apple Retail Store. It doesn't take much skill.
Inversely, since you have said that companies owe some of their success to retail store workers, unsuccessful companies like GM would owe some of their failure to their workers. That is just not true. It's not the janitor's fault if they make overpriced, bad cars. It's not because of the guy who tells people where the iMacs are that Apple is successful.
And then you'd have to pay government employees negative salary.
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I hate when articles like this single out Apple as if they are the only company who pays low retail wages. Wal-Mart for example has had massive success for years, yet the vast majority of their retail associates earn the bare minimum $7.25/hr. Apple at least was generous enough to increase the pay of their retail employees. Their jobs don't require any essential or non-replaceable skills and Apple products are so desirable that they honestly don't need employees to convince shoppers to buy them. Retail jobs are a means to an end, a job that's sufficient enough for you to survive, nothing to live comfortable or lavishly from.
Americans have to face the fact that high-paying, low-skill jobs are for the most part gone and never coming back. People should've complained about this 30-35 years ago when our government started passing all the laws that encouraged outsourcing everything. It's too late now.
In today's market if you don't have some type of valuable skill or trade, don't expect to be paid anything special. Retail will always be one of the lowest paying segments of the market due to how little skills are necessary and how easily employees can be replaced. That's capitalism.
Americans have to face the fact that high-paying, low-skill jobs are for the most part gone and never coming back. People should've complained about this 30-35 years ago when our government started passing all the laws that encouraged outsourcing everything. It's too late now.
In today's market if you don't have some type of valuable skill or trade, don't expect to be paid anything special. Retail will always be one of the lowest paying segments of the market due to how little skills are necessary and how easily employees can be replaced. That's capitalism.
give me a break and take off the blinders
Those lowly Exxon employees working the rigs make an average of $51k.
Best Buy make $158 million dollars last year and has 180,000 retail employees.
Wal-Mart made $15 Billion last year and has 2,100,000 retail employees.
Apple made $25 Billion last year and has 43,000 retail employees.
Compensation at apple is a very valid criticism.
Get a clue man, it's OK to say a company you love may want to look at their pay scale given their huge cash pile and earnings per retail employee. Doesn't mean its a horrible company.
Everybody get a grip....downvote away!
Those lowly Exxon employees working the rigs make an average of $51k.
Best Buy make $158 million dollars last year and has 180,000 retail employees.
Wal-Mart made $15 Billion last year and has 2,100,000 retail employees.
Apple made $25 Billion last year and has 43,000 retail employees.
Compensation at apple is a very valid criticism.
Get a clue man, it's OK to say a company you love may want to look at their pay scale given their huge cash pile and earnings per retail employee. Doesn't mean its a horrible company.
Everybody get a grip....downvote away!
Apple service employees are absolutely second to none.
What are you talking about?
1) Unskilled workers? I know retail isn't brain surgery. However, the customer service skill set in an Apple store is unparalleled. These kids in the stores are brilliant, polite and personable. Apple retail can't even possibly compare themselves to other retailers because there is no comparison. For even remotely similar service and customer satisfaction standards, you can only look to hospitality and luxury services.
2) In spite of their grandeur and popularity, there isn't some great mission to be held, other than to help your nanny figure out the iPad. Apple is eager to make simple to use computers that everyone can use, but they are not philanthropists, nor are they leading some great populist electronics movement.
I hope you all get a chance to look at the Forbes article about this topic to see the caliber of people Apple hires.
What are you talking about?
1) Unskilled workers? I know retail isn't brain surgery. However, the customer service skill set in an Apple store is unparalleled. These kids in the stores are brilliant, polite and personable. Apple retail can't even possibly compare themselves to other retailers because there is no comparison. For even remotely similar service and customer satisfaction standards, you can only look to hospitality and luxury services.
2) In spite of their grandeur and popularity, there isn't some great mission to be held, other than to help your nanny figure out the iPad. Apple is eager to make simple to use computers that everyone can use, but they are not philanthropists, nor are they leading some great populist electronics movement.
I hope you all get a chance to look at the Forbes article about this topic to see the caliber of people Apple hires.
Yea, but Apple is still not excempt from free maket rules: You offer a job for a certain salery and people can apply. You should rather argue that those companies pay a fair share of tax than that they should pay their employees according to the win. What if there is a bad year? Does everyone get a paycut?
Also, why does Apple sell so well? Because it has these retail stores? I call BS on that! Except for the phones, I bought every device online. It's the design, the marketing and the ecosystem which drive Apple products. Sure, it has iconic stores. Despite that, people would buy their products anyways - if not, regions or whole countries without Apple Stores would show no sales at all! I think that a lot of people just go to the store to find out which device they want and see the store as a service to find that out. So, you can't even measure the impact of the stores except if you find a statistic about comparable cities in which one has an Apple Store and the other one doesn't and then look how the Apple Store contributes to market share...