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I worked at the Apple Store for nearly 5 years. Benefits are only paid to qualified full-time employees. I was paid 'ok' for working a retail gig - I was the highest paid specialist there when I left - at $10.59/hr. For a year, I was working full-time - the life insurance benefits are great. Nice health plan. It goes bye-bye as soon as you go back to part-time. I had a full-time job when I started working at Apple part-time - then got laid off and went full-time, then went back to part-time once I got another better paying full-time job. I was being paid more when I worked full time as a Genius Admin, but then had to accept a pay cut when I went back as a part-time specialist.

...

It is a free country and no one forced me at gun point to work there - I was dying to work there... loved it... but at the end of the day, it didn't make fiscal sense for me to continue working there. I support Apple paying whatever they feel is fair- but if they paid a bit more, I'd still be there.

Thank you for sharing your experience and hope your present POB is a better fit. May I ask what years you worked for Apple? Also, did you approach your managers about a possible raise before leaving? I have done that a few times and typically received the raises I needed as an incentive to stay (though sometimes I still opted for a competing opportunity that I finally decided was too good to pass on).

My brother went to a prestigious culinary school and possesses a pretty impressive résumé. Currently, he is employed full-time in a managerial position at a top restaurant in a major urban center. He is on his feet most days for ten to twelve hours straight. A 40-hour work week is a good week (with 50+ closer to the average). Alas, no 401(k) and no healthcare; such is the cooking world presently, which is a shame. I'd love the NYT to do an exposé on that industry.
 
This is why our country is turning to ****. Because self-righteous "anti-capitalist" little ****s genuinely believe they deserve handouts just because they roll out of bed at 9 AM.

Give me a ****ing break. I bust my ass and sold my youth to get to where I am today. I'm not "lucky" to have my job you whiny c*nts - I earned it and I'll be god damned if any of you hipster douches tell me otherwise.

It's YOUR fault that you were dicking around on the internet while the rest of us were sleeping 3 to 4 hours a night for weeks on end, slamming knowledge into our minds with the hopes of making ourselves useful.

It's YOUR fault that you slum around coffee shops, whining that nobody acknowledges your alleged brilliance, while what you should really be doing is trying to contribute something to society beyond some vaguely witty Thoughtcatalog essay.

It's YOUR fault that while you were tucked up, the rest of us were cleaning up.

It's YOUR fault, accept your position in life, and shut the **** up.

rage.jpeg
 
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If you want to make some good money in retail, then work for Neimen Marcus or Nordstrom. The top three sellers in my dept at Nordstrom make between 80K-110K a year. All commission, no base. (If you make base then you're going I get fired because you only get base if you don't meet your goals)

To be clear, Apple store employees have goals too. The only difference is they don't get paid for meeting them; they get berated and harassed by managers for missing them. Once it was Pro Care, One to One and .Mac/Mobile Me. More recently, it's "Business Introductions" to help the small/medium business team with cold calling.
 
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They are selling electronics. They are selling electronics. They are selling electronics.

In case you missed it they are selling electronics. It's not strenuous physical labor. They are not 1000's of feet above or below ground. They are not working in hazardous conditions, with heavy machinery or around any number of things that could kill or injure them. They are not even doing skilled delicate tedious work that requires years of training. They are selling electronics.

not only are they selling electronics they hardly have to do much "selling" as everyone knows everything about all of apples products already pretty much.
stupid story.
end.
of.
thread.
 
And I bet that was very difficult, very expensive, and took alot of effort and time.

But, you did what you had to do...put in the effort and dedication...to accomplish what you have accomplished and elevated your compensable value.

Kudos to you...a fine example of NOT being the "gimmie" generation.

Yes, yes and yes! Thanks!

I'm glad I did it. Neither of my parents went to school past high school and no one else in my extended family had ever gone to law school or expressed any interest in any facet of aviation......so that made it that much more of a lofty goal...
 
not only are they selling electronics they hardly have to do much "selling" as everyone knows everything about all of apples products already pretty much.
stupid story.
end.
of.
thread.

I think you should sit in an apple store for a while. The average customer that walks in there isn't you or I. (I'm sure the employees wish that were the case.) There's some real gems who frequent those stores. ^_^;
 
There's a lot of BS on this thread, from rabid fanboy remarks to conservative propaganda, to downright communist thinking. It's easy to take an extreme political position and use this story as "evidence" to support your way of thinking - as they say, verification is non-scientific. For example, "All flamingos are pink - google 'pink flamingo' and you'll have your proof". ...except if you look for "white flamingo", you'll see the truth - that not all flamingos are pink. As such, one must have a scientific mind when examining the world for truth, and remember to ask questions and look for things that others do not mention (purposely or accidentally).

In this vein of thinking, I'd like to point out something that most people forget. Investors (shareholders), expect a corporation to pay them dividends and see profits for their lending of capital to a company, and for their ownership in miniscule portions. They've given money for this - money they've either had to earn or inherit, and that money represents a part of their wealth. They expect to be able to get more for their investment down the line - they expect return on their investment, and generally expect the people running their company to make it more valuable and pay dividends to their investors, whatever it may take to do so. Employees, on the other hand, have earned money for time - their work makes money for the company, for the shareholders. Employees sacrifice time out of their very short and limited lives to make money for the company and for the shareholders. For this they are paid essentially as little as reasonably possible, so that the shareholders can make as much as reasonably possible. Yes, shareholders have invested money. Employees have invested something much more important than money: their lives. Please keep this in mind when making comments that refer to "trained monkeys", or when you scoff at "overpaid retail employees". They're hardly overpaid, and if you're a shareholder, you owe them a debt of gratitude; it was their time sacrificed that made you your profit.
 
This Story is Late

""Apple Inc. (AAPL) (AAPL) is giving some retail workers raises of as much as 25 percent following a review of store operations earlier in the year, according to people familiar with the matter."

Bloomberg June 22, 2012
 
Jeez....what a stupidass story from the NYT....you could apply this story to ANY retailer...JCPenney, Sears, Best Buy, WALMART.....

It's retail...it's a low paying entry level job. You don't like it? Get the skills to get a better job! It's that simple.

The US has already ruined itself in the manufacturing sector due to unions and high wages...we've driven ourselves out of being competitive...so we're going after retail next? What, run every store out of business because they have to pay uneducated entry level positions a ridiculous salary? We'll just start buying everything online because there won't be any stores.

Next? My yard guy? Oh, he only gets $30 to mow my yard....that's not fair, he should be making $100k a year!

Oh, my WELFARE check isn't enough. I should be getting paid $100k a year to sit on my lazy butt and watch TV. It's not fair! I'm poor...I don't want to be poor...but I don't want to do what is necessary (education, skills, training) I just want someone to GIVE it to me.

/thread


LOL. Nah, been there done the retail thing for 15 years through high school, college, and then after.

Then I went to Law School, practiced full-time for 10 years then pursued my true passion and now I fly Learjets for a charter company, flying celebrities, athletes and just general-run-of-the-mill crazy rich people (basically those "1 Percenters"...) all over the place and practice law on the side.

There is definitely a place for retail jobs...just not a career path (anymore...but that used to be a different situation when you COULD do retail and support a family, and have upward mobility, and . . . . . I digress.....).

:eek:

This is what happens when you don't rely on the government to give you everything!!


Rage Image

HAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!!!!
 
Uhm... so, it's ok for young people to whine and complain, but not older people. Gotcha.

Sure he can complain, just like he does already. But what I am saying is that he should have done the same complaining the youth today does - when HE was a youth instead of just "taking it" by his employer and work with crappy conditions.
 
If the Apple Store don't like their salaries, they are more than welcome to go work somewhere else.

Capitalism wins here.

While I find that attitude kind of... asshaty, $25K for retail is at worst the norm, and the best pretty good.
Upper management of retail? It's kind of low, but I would imagine they make more than that.
 
Employers pay what is required to get the employees they want. Doesn't sound like Apple is having any problem getting employees or retaining them. This whole thing is stupid.

True, Apple has no trouble recruiting new employees. It has a serious, and by this thread, completely ignored problem of keeping trained workers. If the economy improves even a little bit and Apple hasn't done enough to increase salaries, the employees will leave.
==

Hiring people is a slow and time-consuming process, and it is very expensive.

I'll try to explain how this works:

As you know, Apple stores get busier every year because of the great products. What you might not know is how slowly new staff are brought in. The average time is several months between the start of the hiring process and the time the employee is ready to work independently without handholding.

In this time, the existing (trained) employees have to try to keep up with ever-increasing demand. Inevitably, this burns out trained employees, who leave in search of less stressful jobs. The loss of each trained employee, even when s/he is replaced by several fresh recruits is a major loss to the team, and puts added pressure on everyone, and the cycle continues.

The anecdotes in this thread about young people at stores offering crap advice are in large part due to the 'hire every applicant with a pulse' mentality that Apple's new crop of inexperienced managers has had. When I left Apple, retail workers typically trained with senior team members for almost a month before they were allowed to sell on their own. We would 'induct' them as self-sufficient members with an announcement (typically a guy would climb onto a table and shout "we at apple take our people very seriously, and it is my pleasure to announce that 'john' is now a trained member of our team, here's your shirt and badge john").

Think about the cost of this process
- paying two hiring managers to sift through applicants (some larger markets had 'special assistant to the hiring manager' positions!).
- paying the salary of the on-boarding team member and the new recruit for the month of training, during which, the tandem team works half as quickly as regular workers, as they will step off of the sales floor and discuss how the interaction went.
- having to start the process again because before you are completely staffed, people are burnt out and leave Apple for other companies
---
=====
Post-technology era: As I was leaving Apple, they started to experiment with using technology to patch this serious problem. They began offering the Apple Store app, through which you could book appointments, check in for appointments, and buy product without having to talk to an employee. Essentially, by making the customer an 'employee', they decreased the burden on existing employees and on the hiring team to replace them. I can't say how successful it's been as I left before the program really took off.
 
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I'm glad that Apple doesn't have them on commission (as far as I know, or do they?)


I worked a commission job and it was the worst. As a customer I hater being harassed constantly by employees asking if I needed help or a clothing size.
I eventually quit, but not without the manager telling me I was below the average sales quota for the month over and over.
 
You don't need much training to be an Apple Retail Store employee unless you are in some kind of tech support. Any Apple fan from Apple's huge fan base could do it right now.

Not "any". I'd last a week. I wouldn't (and shouldn't) work retail even for my current salary, let alone well under $20.

What's the line? "You'll get used to it....or you'll have a psychotic episode." I'm the latter.
 
These people work in ******** retail? What do they think they are worth? As a stockholder I see where this is going and I am not ******** pleased. I love how defeatism spreads in America. Those retail employees are able to sell so much per square foot because of what the big boys do. Apple retail would have done just as well if you had monkeys instead of human employes. They are retail workers, any one on Earth can do their job. Hence the low pay. It's appropriate for what they do. If we start going this direction we are all f*cked. Because I want more compensation now too?


You're a stockholder? Interesting.

Bad Compensation (or under average compensation) = High Turnover Rates in retail, because when you treat someone as disposable, they will eventually react to the way they are treated and leave.

High Turnover Rate = wasted man hours for the costs of: Interviewing / Training new employees waaaay too often. So, ultimately, if the staff isn't treated well, Apple will lose more money in wasted costs than it would be simply provided some other type of compensation.

Now all that being said: I'm not saying Apple is compensating improperly. It seems as though they are about average, maybe slightly above, in the world of retail. Compared to Walmart, they're spectacular, compared to Nordstrom? Not so much. Those are obviously two different worlds.

Oh, and "It's appropriate for what they do"? Granted thier lives aren't in danger but wow is this a terribly condescending statement. Its obvious you probably haven't spent a day in your life working with the public in any capacity. It shows. I've done my fair share of retail work in this life, and dealing with attitudes such as that day in and day out, people looking down on you when you are genuinely trying to help them completely justifies any compensation increase.
 
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In this vein of thinking, I'd like to point out something that most people forget. Investors (shareholders), expect a corporation to pay them dividends and see profits for their lending of capital to a company, and for their ownership in miniscule portions. They've given money for this - money they've either had to earn or inherit, and that money represents a part of their wealth. They expect to be able to get more for their investment down the line - they expect return on their investment, and generally expect the people running their company to make it more valuable and pay dividends to their investors, whatever it may take to do so. Employees, on the other hand, have earned money for time - their work makes money for the company, for the shareholders. Employees sacrifice time out of their very short and limited lives to make money for the company and for the shareholders. For this they are paid essentially as little as reasonably possible, so that the shareholders can make as much as reasonably possible. Yes, shareholders have invested money. Employees have invested something much more important than money: their lives. Please keep this in mind when making comments that refer to "trained monkeys", or when you scoff at "overpaid retail employees". They're hardly overpaid, and if you're a shareholder, you owe them a debt of gratitude; it was their time sacrificed that made you your profit.

... and that sums up one third of the story. As company, you have to balance the triangle: Your staff, your owner/investor/creditor, and your customer. You neglect one of these and your ship gets broadsided. I'm not implying that Apple is doing that - Apple is probably doing quite well if rated by employees compared to others - I'm just saying that looking just for shareholder value killed a lot of vibrant companies because they either neglected their customers' wishes or their employees and lost the thriving workers to the competition. Since everyone looks at Wal-Mart, let's look at the competition: Aldi. Aldi is known to pay way over average for their workers but expects a stronger comitment. They compete in more competitive markets than the Waltons' stores and even grow - unlike Wal-Mart which went bancrupt with their German sub-company. Aldi is growing in the United States with the balanced concept. Wal-Mart was neglectiing first their employees in Germany and then did not make the changes the customers wanted and vanished from the market there.
 
Because there are no other precedents for that. For that matter, most of us just work for the paycheck. No intrinsic interest in the actual job. Ask a teacher, nurse, or a person in the military. No devotion there.

</sarcasm>

My wife is a teacher, and she would highly disagree with you.
 
Wow, yet another anti-capitalism, anti-Apple diatribe from the NYT. What a surprise. Perhaps the government should mandate pay rates based on a company's success in the marketplace. Am I right comrades?

And what's wrong with criticizing capitalism? The goal of any [good] society is the betterment of the well being of the people not the improvement of the capitalism or any other particular structure. Capitalism is doing some things right but it has been failing too many people recently in US.

Anyway, the hostile reaction to an article criticizing Apple on this forum obviously is expected but I think some people are just too lazy to really think about the issue. Saying that Apple pays the same money as the retailer next door has a point but it also misses a point or two. Remember, Apple is not your typical retailer. Apple is the most successful (economically) company in the World right now. The retailer next door may not have the money to increase the salaries. Apple does. The retailer next door probably did not pay its CEO $380 million dollars last year. Apple here serves as a proxy to what is wrong with capitalism in US today. Apple got rich and paid its top management handsomely but they treat the workers as dirt. Please do not mention 401K as huge benefit. People earning $25K a year are simply not in a position to pay anything to this plan (perhaps one could do it in some areas in USA but those areas do not have malls). This behavior is immoral (even if it became a prevailing one in our society).
 
I wasn't aware that retail employees were considered skilled workers. People should stop whining.

They are the new face of apple and the only contact most have with apple. Seems to me you would want the best of the best and compensate them accordingly.
 
Thank you for sharing your experience and hope your present POB is a better fit. May I ask what years you worked for Apple? Also, did you approach your managers about a possible raise before leaving? I have done that a few times and typically received the raises I needed as an incentive to stay (though sometimes I still opted for a competing opportunity that I finally decided was too good to pass on).

My brother went to a prestigious culinary school and possesses a pretty impressive résumé. Currently, he is employed full-time in a managerial position at a top restaurant in a major urban center. He is on his feet most days for ten to twelve hours straight. A 40-hour work week is a good week (with 50+ closer to the average). Alas, no 401(k) and no healthcare; such is the cooking world presently, which is a shame. I'd love the NYT to do an exposé on that industry.

I worked there from 2004 to late 2009. Just shy of 5 years. I balked when my pay was cut when I changed positions, and the response was, "you're already the highest paid specialist here" - as though I should concede to a deeper cut so I could 'distribute the wealth.'

As an employee, you get addicted to the culture. All kinds of free software deals for employees via the Intranet. Third party promotions where software developers would give you (with a valid @apple.com address) license to their software, on the hopes that you'd share your experiences with customers. I did that - a lot. If I got some free software and really liked it, I really spread the word to help the developer and help customers solve their problems instead of trying to hawk something we sold in the store like Norton Antivirus, which I didn't believe in as a reliable product, for example.

There would be opportunities to get 3rd party items at a fraction of the cost if you completed a training on the Intranet. For example, I got some Bose headphones at half off by studying up on them and completing a test to prove I had learned everything Bose had to say about their products. There is no way I'd pay $150 for headphones - but for $75, I could honestly tell customers I loved my Quiet Comfort headphones and recommend them.

Employees also get a generous 25% off discount on computers (1 laptop and 1 desktop per year) and 15% off for 3 friends/family. I took advantage of this quite a bit when I worked there as well... it gave me the freedom to customize the crapwad out of a machine and load it up with RAM thanks to that discount.

All Apple Employees who had been with the company for a year when the iPhone came out also got a free 1st gen iPhone. That was the coolest gift I got while working there. The things retailed for $648 after tax. It was a brilliant marketing strategy - getting the phone into the hands of 10,000 employees who wanted to show their new gadget off to everyone. I don't recall any other corporate gift after that time. Before, during previously successful Christmas seasons, we'd be given iPod Shuffles (1st and 2nd gen) due to the wild success of the product.

Even when you know it's time for you to leave, you want to stay because you want to keep working with your friends who also are geeky for Apple, you want to keep abreast of the latest tricks in using the OS (the inside training was more robust than what was available outside the company), getting the deals, getting free software... it was addictive.

It was with sadness that I left, but they didn't pay enough for me to stay there. If they suddenly started paying significant sums, I wouldn't return, though. When I started working at the store, there were 18 employees in the whole store. When I left, there were 120 employees. The traffic in the store gradually went up - then exploded after the iPhone was announced and never let up. Every day after that was like a Christmas Eve day - but every stinking day with the noise, and non-stop people and being on your feet all day. You really have to project your voice to be heard in the store sometimes and I went through bouts of laryngitis often, because you're shpieling at top volume all stinkin-day. After 2.5 years of not being in that environment, and also being in my 40s, I don't have the intestinal fortitude to return.

Some of my former coworkers are still there, albeit at different stores now. I get mixed reviews from them on how it is working there. Apple is very schizophrenic with their managerial staff. One minute they only hire internally, the next, they only hire managers from other retail chains (with zero Apple experience at all) and fling them onto experienced staff. Whenever they'd do that, it would be very frustrating. You'd get managers who were used to teenage lazy-asses in retail, having to constantly herd cats, put in a situation where the experienced staff was autonomous and didn't need a lot of managerial help - then the manager would crawl up your behind over things that made no sense and talk to you like you were just born and wouldn't be able to wipe yourself without assistance. They had no concept that the store was staffed with real professionals who really knew what they were doing. Those types of things made leaving easier. You'd have to spend 30 minutes trying to get a manager up to speed on what the customer was complaining about because the manager had zero experience in using any computer, much less a Mac, and didn't know the difference between RAM and a toaster oven. Because I was among the older(ish) employees there, and because I'd been there so long (and worked another job full time), they were pretty cool with me regarding my schedule - but my former coworkers have told me that I left at just the right time. A lot of seasoned employees working a 2nd job had to leave because new management insisted they choose Apple over their other job - scheduling them to work during times that the employee had told them were not available - and an unchanging schedule for years. They'd preach how "this is retail!" (insert "THIS IS SPARTA!" voice here). Well, that's why you have versatile college students working there - so you can have the wild retail schedule. It was clear that the management was getting this directive from up the chain - and not just some control freak with an axe to grind.

Every quarter, there would be some major change in philosophy. When I first started working there, they said you had to 'dance in and out' with sales. You'd help one person, and like a moth around a light bulb, you'd flit over to another customer and never spend more than 5 minutes with one customer. Granted, there were only a handful of employees on the floor back then, but there were also hardly any customers. It was obvious that the dancing in and out philosophy was pissing off customers, but we still were required to do it. The next quarter, they introduced personal shopping and killed the dancing in and out. They introduced the position of concierge - which so helped the staff cope with the massive throngs of people. They'd point a customer who wanted to buy a Mac to a seasoned employee and for a customer that was looking for a case for their iPod, they'd point to a new employee with less Mac experience. When I left, they were doing away with the concierge position and that made me feel better about leaving - as things were going to be ramped up in the stress department once again.

Again, I support Apple in paying whatever they want to pay. I wasn't forced to work there. I just think the company would do better in retail if they rewarded their seasoned employees with more incentives and higher pay - this would benefit customers most of all - as people with the most training and knowledge were there to cross train others and help customers make the best decisions within their budget. When you don't have an incentive to keep your seasoned best, they leave, and you keep on the hamster treadmill, IMO.
 
There's a lot of BS on this thread, from rabid fanboy remarks to conservative propaganda, to downright communist thinking. It's easy to take an extreme political position and use this story as "evidence" to support your way of thinking - as they say, verification is non-scientific. For example, "All flamingos are pink - google 'pink flamingo' and you'll have your proof". ...except if you look for "white flamingo", you'll see the truth - that not all flamingos are pink. As such, one must have a scientific mind when examining the world for truth, and remember to ask questions and look for things that others do not mention (purposely or accidentally).

In this vein of thinking, I'd like to point out something that most people forget. Investors (shareholders), expect a corporation to pay them dividends and see profits for their lending of capital to a company, and for their ownership in miniscule portions. They've given money for this - money they've either had to earn or inherit, and that money represents a part of their wealth. They expect to be able to get more for their investment down the line - they expect return on their investment, and generally expect the people running their company to make it more valuable and pay dividends to their investors, whatever it may take to do so. Employees, on the other hand, have earned money for time - their work makes money for the company, for the shareholders. Employees sacrifice time out of their very short and limited lives to make money for the company and for the shareholders. For this they are paid essentially as little as reasonably possible, so that the shareholders can make as much as reasonably possible. Yes, shareholders have invested money. Employees have invested something much more important than money: their lives. Please keep this in mind when making comments that refer to "trained monkeys", or when you scoff at "overpaid retail employees". They're hardly overpaid, and if you're a shareholder, you owe them a debt of gratitude; it was their time sacrificed that made you your profit.

Bravo :) Well said.

There are so many folks on this thread sh*tt*ing on the retail employees. Well, if you happen to have worked hard and live a nice, plentiful life right now... congrats to you. I mean that sincerely...but it gives you no right to compare those in retail sales to monkeys or belittle them for working hard (regardless of how much money they make).
 
We all believe we are entitled to certain things..... Just different entitlements for different people
 
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