Apple's Rivalry With Google Gets Personal

[NT1440]

If this story is true, it's time to send SJ back out to pasture.

Public corporations should never be buffetted by personal vendettas
between their CEOs.

The reasons for these legal battles, behind the fluff journalism, seem pretty on par with normal business practices to me....

Seems mostly like Apple is pissed that others are ignoring their patent rights. Of course, you can get way more press if you try to tie in famous people and link it to ego somehow.

 

[kdarling]

Over the years I owned and used 14 WinCE and PalmOS touchscreen PDAs (starting with the USR Pilot 1000), and Apple coming up with the hardware and software to allow users to ditch the stylus was a huge innovation.

All or most of those PDAs had a D-pad to navigate, so we really didn't need a stylus so much. I used my finger quite often.

The only time we really needed a stylus was with the stock MS onscreen keyboard, which was a tiny piece of junk... and why a lot us either got a third party replacement or owned a model with a physical keyboard.

Being more touch friendly was something that was coming as an option anyway, as screen sizes were growing and hardware was getting better. Such phones as the NeoNodes and Pradas and some Samsungs were already trying it.

Apple played on their huge advantage of having no legacy phones or PDAs that they had to stay compatible with. Legacy support is why it's taken so long for others to make similar break-away devices.

The iPhone was the first phone (I'm aware of) that had a capacitance touchscreen, multitouch, effective finger-input GUI, visual voice mail, and a 3.5" HVGA screen in a <5 ounce <0.5" thin chassis (previously, there were smaller phones and phones with larger screens, but not both).

OTOH, there were dozens of WVGA models available at the time, with faster CPUs. Apple kind of went mid-range there.

As for capacitance, multitouch, HVGA, the iPhone was announced months after the OpenMoko phone with all that. The iPhone simply got much more press coverage.

 

[hitekalex]

Google is a back-stabbing 2-face weasel.

they screwed their android partners (motorola, etc.) when they sold the Nexus One.

they're trying to screw Apple.

well, they f%$cked with the wrong marine.

Your nonsense about Google "screwing their Android partners" aside.. It is interesting that you pick Jack Nickelson from Few Good Men as "the wrong marine". If you recall, this movie ends with Jack being led away in handcuffs charged with murder.

 

[Winni]

You're running out of options. Perhaps you should recalibrate your gag reflex.

There are still OpenSolaris, the Open Source BSD Unixes and hundreds of Linux flavors to choose from. And there are other search engines that are still online. Really, if you want to, there is a life without Apple, Microsoft and Google.

 

[Niko03]

so the locked down iPhone OS might soon only have Bing search to accompany no Flash support? the choice to leave is becoming increasingly much easier to make.

Uhhh... They say default search engine... not only.

Right now you can go into Settings and change the default search engine
from Google to Yahoo. So potentially you could soon get 3 search engines
to choose from.

I thought choice was good.

 

[AidenShaw]

I thought choice was good.

You haven't been buying from Apple for very long then....

The turtlenecked overlord decides what you can buy - choice is evil.

 

[Stella]

Uhhh... They say default search engine... not only.

Right now you can go into Settings and change the default search engine
from Google to Yahoo. So potentially you could soon get 3 search engines
to choose from.

I thought choice was good.

Hmm... Yahoo uses Bing.

Google and Bing.

 

[cmaier]

If this story is true, it's time to send SJ back out to pasture.

Public corporations should never be buffetted by personal vendettas
between their CEOs.




And why shouldn't Google enter the phone business? Did
Apple try to patent the idea of a phone that one
could carry around?

You make it sound like Apple owned an exclusive right to telephones.




If you were Jobs, you'd be relaxing on your private jet flying off
to someplace to tout the magical Ipad.

Primarily because Schmidt had a fiduciary obligation not to compete with Apple and not to use Apple's secrets (I don't know that he did the second thing, but if he did, that's a no-no). Once he's not on Apple's board, all's fair.

 

[Stately]

It's quite annoying when people who used to be pretty unbiased when reporting on new tech now start throwing in their snarky comments and start doing their own speculations on features using terms as "arrogance" and "Ego".

Why is everyone so into manufactured drama?

Couldn't have said it better myself. Just last night two posters jumped all over me for comments I made about the ipad and started actually being disrespectful, only to turn it all around on me and say I was being disrespectful which was an outright lie. I think these forums are becoming a place for people who are troubled in their lives to just take out their aggressions on people instead of being the nice tech site that I remember. Half the time people are commenting on the tone they feel the other commenters had, when addressing a product, instead of talking about the products themselves. It's ridiculous.

 

[Stella]

Google is a back-stabbing 2-face weasel.

they screwed their android partners (motorola, etc.) when they sold the Nexus One.

they're trying to screw Apple.

well, they f%$cked with the wrong marine.

Sure and Apple are angels who have never screwed anyone?

Google and Apple are as bad as each other in this respect.

 

[DaveSW]

Your nonsense about Google "screwing their Android partners" aside.. It is interesting that your quote Jack Nickelson from Few Good Men as "the wrong marine". If you recall, this movie ends with Jack being led away in handcuffs charged with murder.

1) Google is a backstabbing 2-face evil corporation who screwed their android partners and that is an undisputable fact.


2) Google's been censoring search results in China for FOUR years. EVIL.

 

[distortedloop]

When I insult people they generally have no doubt about whether that was the intent.

Fair enough.

iPaq and your Palm were also much bigger than an iPhone. Technology has improved to allow these devices to get smaller. But I'm not sure what your point really is. You seem to be drawing an arbitrary size line, somewhere smaller than a Newton and bigger than iPhone, and saying that the first mostly-screen device without a lot of buttons (again, drawing an arbitrary line as to the number of buttons) was ripped off by Apple to make the iPhone. It seems a somewhat arbitrary line you are drawing, don't you think?

No, actually, the Palm Vx was about the same size as the iPhone. It was a little wider, but thinner, and lighter.

1999's Palm Vx: 115 mm x 80 mm x 10 mm - 114g

2007's iPhone 2G: 115 mm x 61mm x 11.6 mm - 135 g

I'm not sure it's fair to say I am drawing an arbitrary size limit. The Newton is clearly not in the same class of device as the iPhone and the various Palm & HP PDA/phones of the last decade. It may be similar in appearance and design aesthetic, but it's more than twice the size. You couldn't call it a pocket-device like the Palms, HPs, or iPhones. That's the "arbitrary" limit I've chosen, can I carry it in my pocket, or do I need a briefcase/backpack for it. The Newton's more like a tablet (iPad) than an iPhone (pocket pc). If that's arbitrary, so be it, but it's a logical arbitrary, isn't it? You even refer to the "pocketable" aspect in your next paragraph.

Your fourth sentence is true. But I don't hear anyone saying that the reason the iPhone was "first of its kind" was because it was mostly screen with one button. I'm pretty sure most people find it "first of its kind" is because it was the first pocketable device designed and optimized for finger-based use while providing a decent-enough internet experience to not make one want to tear one's hair out.

The finger use is the only revolutionary design there. Everything else you could do for at least a year or more on other similar sized devices. I'm sure my original comment was in response to something I had just read and interpreted to mean the size and form factor of the iPhone was revolutionary, but don't press me to find it. Other than the one button on the front, it's all been done before in terms of physical size, so it can't be argued that the form factor was revolutionary.

The internet part, Safari's great on the iPhone, but I don't remember tearing out my hair using the web on my Palm Treo.

iPhone's are great, they took it to the next level a couple of years ago, but they didn't do most of it first, and currently, in my humbled opinion, they don't even do it best. Apple's spent too much time resting on their laurels and working on the iPad instead of moving the iPhone forward ahead of the rest of the industry. Perhaps I'll be singing a different tune 6 months from now with iPhone 4g.

 

[Stella]

2) Google's been censoring search results in China for FOUR years. EVIL.

And Apple have been censoring ( or restricting ) iPhone / Touch applications on their store - for the "good of the consumer".

China censor for "the good of the chinese population"

Not so different...

 

[DaveSW]

And Apple have been censoring ( or restricting ) iPhone / Touch applications on their store - for the "good of the consumer".

China censor for "the good of the chinese population"

Not so different...

ROFL BIG BIG difference...


controlling/limiting features and applications on a device is a minor annoyance at most. if you don't like it, use another product.


censoring search results in China due to political pressures = EVIL

 

[PeterQVenkman]

censoring search results in China due to political pressures = EVIL

That the chinese government deciding what its people can and cannot see, not Google. Everyone follows those rules or they aren't allowed to play.

 

[jamesryanbell]

There sure are a lot of negative votes for a forum that loves to complain about lack of competition.

They want to see competition where Apple always wins, but others keep trying. It has to be a HEAVY Apple advantage at all times.

 

[PeterQVenkman]

If this story is true, it's time to send SJ back out to pasture.

IIRC, this is kind of how Steve behaved before he was ousted before. He's a brilliant man, but prone to an inflated ego once he finds success.

 

[ThisIsNotMe]

Google makes 99.9% of it revenue from advertising, the majority of which is/was tied to existing contracts with marketing companies and DoubleClick.

Google is a one shot wonder.

As soon as the next generation of internet marketing his the streets, all the free/poorly made internet applications will not be able to save it.

 

[NT1440]

They want to see competition where Apple always wins, but others keep trying. It has to be a HEAVY Apple advantage at all times.

Fair competition does not include alleged infringing of patents, which exist for a reason.

 

[distortedloop]

Fail. As cmaier rightly pointed out, the Newton was the real trailblazer - not Palm.

Fail? Hardly. As I pointed out in my response to cmaier, the Newton was not in the same class of device; there's no comparison. The Newton is over twice the size of the iPhone and Palms, and weighs four times as much. Palms and IPAQs and iPhones are palm-held, pocketable devices. The Newton, from the specs, clearly was not. I've never seen a Newton in person, so feel free to correct me if you have, but going by the specs:

1998's MessagePad: 211 mm x 119 cm x 27 cm - 640g

1999's Palm Vx: 115 mm x 80 mm x 10 mm - 114g

2007's iPhone 2G: 115 mm x 61mm x 11.6 mm - 135 g

Yeah, that was such an amazing, must-have device - I think I've seen almost a half dozen people using them over the years. A real coup for HP to be sure.

Dripping with sarcasm. How good it looks on you.

In it's day, the iPAQ was very useful, very affordable, and functional. If you wanted a pocket PC type device with WiFi it was a respectable choice. What were you using pre-2005 for you pocket-sized PDA?

Anyone who can't recognize and admit the iPhone has completely changed the mobile industry is either 1) a moron, 2) blinded by his own BS, or 3) both.

Did you take an overdose of nasty pills today, or are you just normally this nasty to anyone who doesn't share your worship of all things Apple?

The iPhone was a game changer. Where did I say it wasn't. All I said was that it wasn't the original never seen before device that some (like you perhaps) seem to think it was. Apple did what they always did. They stepped into the market that already existed, improved on what others were doing, made it simple, made it slick, and came up with a winner.

What's amusing is that when other companies build on Apple's ideas, they're branded as "thieves" and "evil", and folks like you jump right into the chorus, while ignoring the fact that Apple's "borrowed" as many ideas from others as others have from Apple. It's really kind of sad.

 

[karmachrome]

Tension is precisely where innovation emerges. This competition will result in something incredible - another industrial catalyst life the Google search or the iPod.

 

[Eidorian]

Dripping with sarcasm. How good it looks on you.

In it's day, the iPAQ was very useful, very affordable, and functional. If you wanted a pocket PC type device with WiFi it was a respectable choice. What were you using pre-2005 for you pocket-sized PDA?

iPaq was so awesome back in 2003 with the PC Card dock and an 802.11b wireless card.

 

[AidenShaw]

That the chinese government deciding what its people can and cannot see, not Google. Everyone follows those rules or they aren't allowed to play.

And what's the difference between this and the turtlenecked overlord
deciding which apps are allowed in the app store?

(Answer: The Chinese government is more predictable.)

 

[DaveSW]

That the chinese government deciding what its people can and cannot see, not Google. Everyone follows those rules or they aren't allowed to play.

EXACTLY the point. Google bowed to chinese censorship for FOUR years. and for what? for money! their mantra seems to be "do no evil, except when there's money involved".

They should've left China or not entered the Chinese market AT ALL.

Google is EVIL.

 

[Roessnakhan]

2) Google's been censoring search results in China for FOUR years. EVIL.

Ethical relativism.

Should we call Apple evil for manufacturing their products in China? Especially when those manufacturers have questionable practices.