Apple's Rumored Tile Competitor May Offer ARKit and Leashing Capabilities

[koruki]

Do people repeatedly lose those items to warrant a wide net like Apple's solution? I imagine people more often misplace those items in familar places—not lose them in the wild. If that's a habit, they need self-awareness or medical attention, not a safety net.

As alarmed as the public is about privacy errosion, and as often as headlines reveal liberties taken by big consumer tech companies, you'd think people would think twice about allowing those companies to add more features that involve yet more surveillance.

Answer to your first question, yes they do, saying people can just give up 5-10mins once a week looking for a wallet in the house is like asking people to stop sending emails and go back to hand writing and posting a letter.
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I don't use Tile and I wasn't aware of the provision in the EULA that they shared your location data. That is a deal breaker for me, if I were in the market for such a device, I would definitely avoid Tile. However, I am very interested in Apple's version. I would love to put one on each of my bikes in case any of them were ever to be stolen.

Because of their small size and likely affordability, I could see these type of devices being abused for covertly spying on people (i.e. epoxy a strong magnet on one and stick it to the underside of someone's car to find out where they live).

They need location data as you are not only looking for your tile but also looking for every tile around you to help people find their items as they are only bluetooth and not gps. They are using your phone as a middleman. The location is to send the location of detected tiles, not you specifically. You can't do that unless you have location services always on, but since its iOS you can still disable always on in system settings but that would mean you're no longer making Tile worth it to you and others who also use it.

 

[djlythium]

I, for one, am shocked people don't walk down to the creek with a washboard to do their laundry anymore - how is everyone in such a hurry that they can't spend 6 hours doing their laundry? This generation is so technologically dependent they can't even read a sundial, pathetic.

Yes! Great comment!

 

[DotCom2]

This is really cool tech, I'm excited to see it expand.

Hopefully they build it into the Apple TV remote.

I got a glow in the dark case for mine.

 

[doctor-don]

I would love this. I'd stick it on my kid's wallet, put one in her school backpack, sew one into her school jacket, and put one on every other thing she is constantly misplacing.

Heck, if they give these things the ability to beep, I'd stick 'em on my tv remotes too.

Other locaters exist for finding the remote and other items you might misplace in the house. I bought a set of 6 for my wife. She will put her keys on a sofa and then something else on top of it, 'losing' her keys. The base unit only needs to be in a fixed location - so it doesn't get lost.

I desperately want them to come out with this.

Tile needs to die.

Tile was a great idea. I was even one of the backers for it on Kickstarter and I’ve had them since launch.

But after using them for all these years, I’ve grown to dislike them. The batteries don’t last worth a damn, and they put off making a rechargeable or replaceable battery for so long because they want to milk everyone for money.
Then they finally do it and change their business model to Subscription.

I’m done with them. They are trash and greedy bastards.

I love when Apple sticks their nose into other industries because they always disrupt it in a very positive way. And in some cases, put obsolete companies out of business who over stayed their welcome. All for the better.

I hope one day, Apple is the only company I need in my life. I don’t like monopolies, but if it’s done right, it may not be a bad thing.

Got 4 Tile Mates in December.
In August, I had to replace the batteries when a double-press on a Tile Mate did not activate my phone.
Of course, having a place for keys and wallet, those items are seldom misplaced.
Bought them in case of Alzheimer's.
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Many years ago I looked at electronically tagging kids to help prevent driveway and swimming pool tragedies but suitable technology was not available. Apple's possible device might just do the trick as it would not need special infrastructure. Reliability could be an issue, as well as battery life.
Escaped pets is another possible use.

MANY (50+) years ago, when my wife worked in sales of women's clothing, she told me the mark-ups were due to shoplifting. That made me believe some small device could be used to prevent people from leaving the store without paying for their merchandise. In the years since, little has been done to prevent such theft, and I had LIFE to worry about instead of inventing such a technology. RFID works, but not everything has them. And those magnetic tags have made it home, but I have been able to remove them instead of going back to the store.

Cats don't keep their collars as well as dogs, so I would think you mean dogs when you say pets. They already can be microchipped, although that won't locate them. Devices that a dog would wear would have to have a power source to send a signal.

 

[IG88]

A background process called Search Party intermittently broadcasts and receives Bluetooth beacon signals so that every nearby online device running iOS 13 or macOS Catalina can relay the location of lost offline devices to their owners.

Ha. I'm sure hackers won't exploit this and have the ability to create iOS botnets!

 

[QueDaRuler]

FYI... The "Enable Offline Finding" toggle in iOS 13.1 is actually located here... Settings > Apple ID > Find My > Find My iPhone > Enable Offline Finding.

 

[Lalatoon]

"Find My Self" .. If you are lost you can just find your self.

Basically if I have an iOS 13/macOS Catalina device it will be use to track other people devices? Do I have an opt-out for this? I don't want to become a tool to track other person.

 

[DamoTheBrave]

And what's wrong with their core products?

Apart from Siri...

 

[CarlJ]

"Find My Self" .. If you are lost you can just find your self.

Basically if I have an iOS 13/macOS Catalina device it will be use to track other people devices? Do I have an opt-out for this? I don't want to become a tool to track other person.

"Of all the things I've lost, I miss my mind the most"

Your device won't be tracking them in some sort of police-state sort of way, it'll be relaying bits of information to Apple in such a way (using anonymization and cryptography) that it's only useful for connecting people with their lost objects, not useful for interested third parties to track people/things. (This is assuming Apple has got their scheme worked out properly, and I'm guessing they have - article cited elsewhere in this thread: Apple's 'Find My' Feature Uses Some Very Clever Cryptography.)

 

[Bawstun]

Gonna suck when the federal government can track the location of my kid’s lunch bag.

Honestly, they probably already can. Privacy is largely a fallacy at this point, like the illusion iPhones can’t be cracked or hacked into if they’ve got passcodes. There’s a bypass for literally everything, the CIA/FBI operate basically without limits. So does the rest of the world. Snowden told us as much, he doesn’t even allow his webcam cameras to be uncovered. Or computer mics. And this is someone who worked for the government, so that really should say all there is to know on the subject.

 

[Tech198]

And what's wrong with their core products?

People keep loosing stuff.. That's what's wrong with it.

 

[Lalatoon]

"Of all the things I've lost, I miss my mind the most"

Your device won't be tracking them in some sort of police-state sort of way, it'll be relaying bits of information to Apple in such a way (using anonymization and cryptography) that it's only useful for connecting people with their lost objects, not useful for interested third parties to track people/things. (This is assuming Apple has got their scheme worked out properly, and I'm guessing they have - article cited elsewhere in this thread: Apple's 'Find My' Feature Uses Some Very Clever Cryptography.)

My problem is it is a close system. No third party audit. I had the chance to develop software with encryption and it lead me to a lot of readings about cryptography and one of the thing that i learned is in cryptography never trust a close system that can not be audited by a third party. Security starts in TRUST. Unfortunately, I don't trust Apple that much specially how it is in bed with the Chinese government. In western territories it proclaims it self as a privacy first company however in China it is willing to cooperate with the government completely. Their decision to cooperate with Chinese government may not affect me directly since I am not in China but this attitude shows that for profit Apple will choose not to protect your privacy. I've read somewhere that during the holiday quarter last year they had $13 billion in revenue in China. I guess that's enough to not talk about privacy with its Chinese user base.

 

[Gasu E.]

Do people repeatedly lose those items to warrant a wide net like Apple's solution? I imagine people more often misplace those items in familar places—not lose them in the wild. If that's a habit, they need self-awareness or medical attention, not a safety net.

Are you planning to live past 50? If you do, you are going to be in for a really, really big surprise.
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I’m not even a millennial lol. You can be old and not crotchety, I promise it’s possible.

I think the dude you were responding to was born crotchety. Reminds me of a guy who regularly wrote angry letters-to-the-editor to our local town paper.
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Apparently you don't hear very well. The issue is laziness. Specifically mental laziness. It's one thing if your tech toy is a convenience. It's another if it's a crutch.

No, it isn't. Misplacing your keys isn't laziness, and it isn't an illness. It's a sign of distraction, often from being too busy. And it happens more frequently with age. The fact that you seem unable to grasp this is on you, not the millions of people you choose to criticize.

 

[mw360]

All this tech to help you cope and you still complain that you are overworked, underpaid, and have to prepare a meal. You watch more entertainment and play more than any generation before and yet you're sleep deprived. Sounds like tech hasn't improved your situation in meaningful ways.

I didn't know we could get free astrology readings here.

 

[Wonder Warthog]

And what's wrong with their core products?

1. Product line is a total mess. MacBook Pros without dedicated graphic cards for years now – what the **** is "Pro" about this joke (except for the price)?
2. A display stand for 1000 bucks. Sure.
3. iMac by default with an 5400-rpm drive. Does it also come with a 5" floppy and a 15" CRT display?
4. Couldn't Apple just not also offer an Apple Display based on the one in the iMac for mere mortals? Yes the Pro Display is amazing, but I can imagine there's a lot of people who'd pay decent money for a sexy iMac-styled display (without having to buy a full iMac). At least the market for that display would be orders of magnitudes bigger than the Lamborghini-priced Pro Display XDR.
5. Gestures on iOS devices are all over the place.

• iPhones that have a home button use the "old" gestures (e.g. swipe bottom up for control centre. etc.)
• The current iPad that also has a home button uses the new gestures (e.g. swipe from top right in an arch shape towards the centre – W.T. actual F.? – for control centre)
• iPhones Xs use the new gestures

Except for maybe "pinch" which could be arguably "intuitive" none of the gestures are discoverable. Many of these gestures require both hands. Many gestures rarely work when you're in a hurry, because there's the swipe from the very top of the screen for notifications, there's the swipe on the home screen from kinda the top, but not all up there to get spotlight and then there's the swipe-from-top-right-in-an-arch-shape-towards-the-centre-gesture to get the control centre.​

There's more, but I'm tired.

 

[cmaier]

Other locaters exist for finding the remote and other items you might misplace in the house. I bought a set of 6 for my wife. She will put her keys on a sofa and then something else on top of it, 'losing' her keys. The base unit only needs to be in a fixed location - so it doesn't get lost.


Got 4 Tile Mates in December.
In August, I had to replace the batteries when a double-press on a Tile Mate did not activate my phone.
Of course, having a place for keys and wallet, those items are seldom misplaced.
Bought them in case of Alzheimer's.
[doublepost=1567055499][/doublepost]
MANY (50+) years ago, when my wife worked in sales of women's clothing, she told me the mark-ups were due to shoplifting. That made me believe some small device could be used to prevent people from leaving the store without paying for their merchandise. In the years since, little has been done to prevent such theft, and I had LIFE to worry about instead of inventing such a technology. RFID works, but not everything has them. And those magnetic tags have made it home, but I have been able to remove them instead of going back to the store.

Cats don't keep their collars as well as dogs, so I would think you mean dogs when you say pets. They already can be microchipped, although that won't locate them. Devices that a dog would wear would have to have a power source to send a signal.

Of course others exist, but none integrate with the “find my” app I already use.

 

[grayskies]

Just let me “leash” my damn phone to my watch. The most obvious feature ever. If my watch disconnects from my phone ALERT me as I likely JUST left my phone somewhere.

This needs a thousand thumbs up.




I'm sure there are concerns about misuse or abuse of tracking; I don't dismiss them. But, I would really like to be able to find/track a myriad of the things as many comments above mention.

 

[Frantisekj]

I should definitely hang one beacon device on my neck and set phone to panic mode when I leave it too far or lone for too long. If beacon device could launch electric shock on iPhone in case it gets to fraudulent hands, then it would be perfect lol.

 

[gnasher729]

this is a little creepy that my phone or device can be accessed when it's off.

"Can be accessed" is slightly exaggerated. All another phone can get from it is "I'm nearby and my code is xxxxxxxxxxx". The other phone then sends to Apple "there's a phone near location ********** and it's code is xxxxxxxxxx" without identifying itself in any way.

But the whole point of "find my phone" is that your phone can get info about its location to you when it's not in your hand. If you use "find my phone" you want that information. And you want that information whether the phone is turned on or not. For example if someone picked your phone up and turned it off. That's a restriction now; for find my phone to work your phone must be turned on, and able to get location information, and able to send that information somewhere.

 

[gnasher729]

I'm having trouble understanding how this technology wouldn't drain the battery.

It's using Bluetooth, and it uses it very rarely. Bluetooth is _extremely_ low power. And Bluetooth is implemented in a tiny chip that can run on its own, with the rest of the phone being absolutely turned off. It doesn't do any of the things that really use your battery, like turning the screen on, turning the CPU on, using GPS, using WiFi or mobile data.

 

[Abazigal]

I'm having trouble understanding how this technology wouldn't drain the battery.

My guess is that Apple will have some special implementation of bluetooth that won't drain the battery much. Probably W1 or W2 or whatever the version will be.

I suppose this is going to beat the tile when it comes to iPhone users because Tile won't be able to beat the system integration that Apple's own solution will enjoy. Similar to how the Apple Watch is the de-facto smartwatch option for iPhone users. If you want the best experience, you go with Apple's own in-house solution.

 

[Takeo]

Find my keys? Find my wallet? Are we so A.D.D. that we need tech to do the light lifting for us too? At this rate, the screen generation is going to have full blown dementia by their fourties.

I have tile on a number of items (Keys, AppleTV remote and a couple other things). 99.9% of the time I don’t need it. But the 0.1% of the time I do need it, it’s awesome.

 

[dantroline]

I got a glow in the dark case for mine.

All this Apple tracking technology glows in the dark. Not saying it's bad technology, just that it happens to glow like crazy.

 

[DanBig]

I would love this. I'd stick it on my kid's wallet, put one in her school backpack, sew one into her school jacket, and put one on every other thing she is constantly misplacing.

Heck, if they give these things the ability to beep, I'd stick 'em on my tv remotes too.

How about your baby(s)! So you don't forget it in the back seat of a hot car! So far this summer about 20 kids have been forgotten by the parent. A pair of twins died! Likely caused of a very tired parent.

 

[Lalatoon]

I'm curios how this will actually work in real world scenario specially in a crowded area were there are lots of iOS devices bouncing packets from each other like in a concert or a big crowd activity. I'm not sure if when they designed the Bluetooth protocols they considered this kind of data traffic in mind. But I'm sure Apple engineers has considered this, I am just curious