In a post about apple having 10% the equivalencies s/b on a ratio of 90/10 not 1/1
not saying it is that ratio but your wrong on being equal.
Got a tip for us?
Let us know
Become a MacRumors Supporter for $50/year with no ads, ability to filter front page stories, and private forums.
Apple's Share of Computer Sales Surpasses 10% in U.S.
- Thread starter MacRumors
- Start date
- Sort by reaction score
In a post about apple having 10% the equivalencies s/b on a ratio of 90/10 not 1/1
not saying it is that ratio but your wrong on being equal.
In context there is. He should be cleaer if he doesn't want misinterpretation.
You're wrong. When someone says something, and then someone else jumps in to say, "Hey, it goes both ways," the false equivalence has been set up. That is how society uses that phrase. It is implied by the way it was set up.
Correct, and I would expect my example to be true about 9 times more often that samcraig's example. That's what makes his implied false equivalence so dishonest. There's nothing even close to equivalence in there.
Who care about the numbers of who does what, and how many times? It goes boths ways is a general statement. It can have further explaination, but it doesnt require it.
The bottomline.. There are Mac users at work, who go home and use a PC. there are PC users at work, who use a Mac at home. Can someone tell me why it matters which one is more common?
Wirelessly posted (Mozilla/5.0 (iPhone; U; CPU iPhone OS 4_1 like Mac OS X; en-us) AppleWebKit/532.9 (KHTML, like Gecko) Version/4.0.5 Mobile/8B117 Safari/6531.22.7)
Because Roku Box has 1080p streaming and PS3 has 1080i on Netflix beginning October 18.
Why do people keep saying this when Blu-ray sales are still rising every quarter?
Because Roku Box has 1080p streaming and PS3 has 1080i on Netflix beginning October 18.
Can someone tell me why it matters which one is more common?
Because it's an internet argument.
Wirelessly posted (Mozilla/5.0 (iPhone; U; CPU iPhone OS 4_1 like Mac OS X; en-us) AppleWebKit/532.9 (KHTML, like Gecko) Version/4.0.5 Mobile/8B117 Safari/6531.22.7)
That's why I don't miss windows one bit along with the pages of other reasons.
apple1990 said:
That's why I don't miss windows one bit along with the pages of other reasons.
Ah semantics....
1. Hypocrisy to tell me that I can't speak for society at large based on my personal experience (which I didn't even do) and yet here you are insinuating that your interpretation was that of ALL society.
2. I didn't express the opinion you state I did. I meant the exact words I typed.
e. I never said I didn't disagree with what you said. Again - stop putting words in my mouth. And stop trying to control/influence the outcome in your "favor." It's ok - you can just admit you were wrong in your accusations and interpretations or you can just not comment again. Or comment again without any basis. Your choice. Personally - if I were you - I would stop trying to insist you were right when you weren't. But that's MY opinion only
ETA: "That's what makes his implied false equivalence so dishonest. "
You keep insisting that what I did was dishonest and a false equivalence. Both are completely inaccurate. Stop making up an argument where there is none. Or perhaps you just like the attention?
Who care about the numbers of who does what, and how many times? It goes boths ways is a general statement. It can have further explaination, but it doesnt require it.
The bottomline.. There are Mac users at work, who go home and use a PC. there are PC users at work, who use a Mac at home. Can someone tell me why it matters which one is more common?
Everything goes *both way* in real life. The question you should ask is why said it in the first place.
I agree. I can answer why I said it. I said it because one could interpret the statement I responded to as being Apple snobbery. I am sure you've seen it displayed here and elsewhere. The notion that given the choice - anyone and everyone would CHOOSE a Mac over a PC is just false. My posting was clearly to clarify this notion. It's not a certainty. There are people who prefer PCs. Obviously. And there are people who use Macs at work but own PCs at home. It's a fact. That's all I presented to counter. A fact. There was no "dishonesty" going on or an attempt to skew statistics or opinion or whatnot. I presented a fact. Plain and simple.
Like when someone said Macs just work. That's not true. It's opinion. It's a judgement based on ones experience. But not everyone's. And Macs might be the best computers with the least issues. But semantically speaking nothing just "works." When I state it's not true - there's no real need to ask WHY I'm saying it. Is there? Really? I would make similar statements about any fallacy - mac, pc, linux, nokia, att, honda, kodak, etc... you get the idea.
I aboslutely agree with you. Surely there's reasons people would choose PC over Mac.
But here, to be fair to NebulaClash, you're just putting words to his mouth. What he said is just:
There's no where he said about the absolute *anyone and everyone*, is there?
Macs are faster than PC's- that is a invalid and incomplete point.. faster than which pc's? Whichs Mac's are faster?
OSX have fewer problems than windows- Invalid. Which version of OSX is better than which version of windows? What are the problems? Is it really a problem? or is it a missing feature that you precieve as a problem to YOU?
Windows has more virus EXPOSURE than OSX- This is true.
Windows has potential for a virus, OSX does not- False. They both have the POTENTIAL to get a virus.
See people fail to see it all about the wording of their agrument, one word, one adjective can change the argument to an invalid one, in a heartbeat.
OSX have fewer problems than windows- Invalid. Which version of OSX is better than which version of windows? What are the problems? Is it really a problem? or is it a missing feature that you precieve as a problem to YOU?
Windows has more virus EXPOSURE than OSX- This is true.
Windows has potential for a virus, OSX does not- False. They both have the POTENTIAL to get a virus.
See people fail to see it all about the wording of their agrument, one word, one adjective can change the argument to an invalid one, in a heartbeat.
It is true that not everyone has a PC forced upon them, but I never said that, so there was no reason whatsoever to assume snobbery implied by my statement. You cannot speak for society at large by your anecdotes because society at large has numbers that go in the other direction. The business world is dominated by PCs. So when I speak for society, I am not just talking about personal experience (worthless anecdotal data) but about the raw numbers of machines that this story is about. I was talking about something actually on-topic (lots more PCs out there than Macs).
So what I said was not snobbery, but an acknowledgment of the numbers in the story. I would say if you could ask each one of the tens of millions of Mac users in the world what they use at work, the majority would say "PCs." I would say if you could ask each one of those users if they would prefer a Mac at work, the majority would say "Yes." Based on those two fairly straightforward assumptions, I made my statement about being "forced" (as in you do not get a choice) to use PCs.
I see nothing controversial in that statement. If you are trying to go around correcting extremes in Mac fans words, I can understand that. I do the opposite here, attacking the words of trolls who attack Apple. But what I said was accurate, albeit biased based on the site on which I posted. I objected to your false equivalency used so often by media to pretend both sides are equal. You now say you never meant it to be taken that way, and I believe you. Poor choice of phrase in my opinion, not in your opinion. Why this needs to be perpetuated page after page is beyond me. We disagree about your word choice, but we agree on what I originally said. So it's pointless to continue going in circles about something we agree upon.
So what I said was not snobbery, but an acknowledgment of the numbers in the story. I would say if you could ask each one of the tens of millions of Mac users in the world what they use at work, the majority would say "PCs." I would say if you could ask each one of those users if they would prefer a Mac at work, the majority would say "Yes." Based on those two fairly straightforward assumptions, I made my statement about being "forced" (as in you do not get a choice) to use PCs.
I see nothing controversial in that statement. If you are trying to go around correcting extremes in Mac fans words, I can understand that. I do the opposite here, attacking the words of trolls who attack Apple. But what I said was accurate, albeit biased based on the site on which I posted. I objected to your false equivalency used so often by media to pretend both sides are equal. You now say you never meant it to be taken that way, and I believe you. Poor choice of phrase in my opinion, not in your opinion. Why this needs to be perpetuated page after page is beyond me. We disagree about your word choice, but we agree on what I originally said. So it's pointless to continue going in circles about something we agree upon.
I use a mac at home and pc at work. I WOULD NOT want a mac at work. Productivity would fall immensely.
Any problem a user would have with a PC at home(ie virus) its really a problem on corporate networks. Windows runs great for the majority of PC users in a corporate setting.
OK, and that describes your circumstances. In my case I would be far more productive with a Mac at work, and there are now several folks who just brought in Macbook Pros to use at work because they prefer them. Also just anecdotal evidence.
The point of the story in this thread is that the world is dominated by PCs. More Mac users would prefer it if their work systems all got switched over to Macs. You do not prefer that. Your choice.
Matrix - you have to go back further. I wasn't putting words in Nebula's mouth. My statement referenced my initial post and the poster who made a general comment.
Nebula - your use of false equivalency is easier on the palate than using the phrase dishonest. I hope you can see why this might be so. One is an attack on integrity - the other is not. Object away.
But the second thing I bolded - to be clear - I didn't agree OR disagree with what you originally said. Not to be contrary - and I am deliberate in my phrasing. I'm not sure where you get the idea that I agree. I honestly didn't agree or disagree. If you can show me where - I'd appreciate that - sincerely.
As to your final point - it goes on for threads because being understood is important. People have to be speaking the same language and using the same definitions of words to have any meaning. It's no clearer here than when you incorrectly accused me of stating a certain opinion which I never stated. It's good to be on the same "page"
ETA: "These numbers would mean a great deal more if they were broken down between Personal and Business Sales.
I would not be surprised if Apple has even MORE than 30% of the non-business computer sales at this point since they have 1/2 of the laptop market alone."
Well that's the funny thing about statistics - isn't it - you can get them to say whatever you want. And you can keep drilling down until you get whatever you want to represent. IE "Macs are in 70 percent of homes in NYC" vs 10 percent of the country has Macs. Just a made up example.
This was one of my "beefs" with Apple's press conference about Antennagate... Their stats were accurate given the parameters... but they didn't consider all the parameters or perhaps the ones that really matter. But that's another conversation.
Point is - it's GREAT that Apple has over 10 percent market share in the US now... focus on that. No need to concern with what the competition has/can do/etc. And this is important: You don't have to put down "the other guy" to make yourself look/feel better. Enjoy the success on your own merits.
SIMPLE..this counts home AND business sales.
Look at it this way.
If the Business market is 99% Windows PC, and the Business purchases make up the majority of the total computer market sales (probably 60-70% I would guess), then that 10% of the total market that Apple has is really translated to this portion of the personal computer sales:
Apples 10% total market share translated into only the home market share they mostly compete in === about 30%+ of the HOME PC market.
These numbers would mean a great deal more if they were broken down between Personal and Business Sales.
I would not be surprised if Apple has even MORE than 30% of the non-business computer sales at this point since they have 1/2 of the laptop market alone. That 50% of laptop sales probably translates into like 60% of personal laptops and %10 of business laptops.
Nebula - your use of false equivalency is easier on the palate than using the phrase dishonest. I hope you can see why this might be so. One is an attack on integrity - the other is not. Object away.
But the second thing I bolded - to be clear - I didn't agree OR disagree with what you originally said. Not to be contrary - and I am deliberate in my phrasing. I'm not sure where you get the idea that I agree. I honestly didn't agree or disagree. If you can show me where - I'd appreciate that - sincerely.
I do see why you would feel that way, and I apologize for calling your post dishonest. I called it that because I didn't think anyone could honestly believe in such an equivalency, and since that is what I erroneously thought you were doing, it seemed dishonest to me. I see now that you were not being dishonest, we were having semantic disagreements. That is a problem with message boards. In person over a beer, we could easily figure out what the other person meant by asking follow-up questions to clear things up. So we're good now, and again, I apologize for getting your motives wrong.
Where you agreed with me, to answer you question, is when you said there was no equivalency. Since I thought you were still pushing that equivalency in your original response, that comment indicated you now agreed with my original post that there was no equivalency. I hope this is clear.
All good now?
Tablet sales will get included in industry polls the moment HP and Dell start making them. Until then, they are not PCs.
do you really believe people go to coffee shops to sit around and "show off" their mac? or that maybe -- JUST MAYBE! -- they are using their mac as a tool to do stuff they wanna do? surf, email, write, etc.. you know -- all those things that laptops were made to do.
ya think?