Apple's Split with Google Over iOS Maps Driven by Turn-by-Turn Navigation Dispute

[Ryan John]

You can hardly blame Google for not wanting to give away a key feature that provides an advantage for Android over IOS, if Apple were not willing to make it very worthwhile for Google in return.

Seems to me that Google wanted inside the walled garden and Apple weren't prepared to go there. Too much that Google could find out about IOS?

If the shoe was on the other foot, I somehow doubt that Apple would give away a feature that is a major selling point over a competitor, unless they had a very good reason to do so.

 

[linuxcooldude]

BS, the app was apple google only provided the data.

And google offered turn by turn years ago, apple refused wanting customers to rather buy the navigation apps(and take the 30% instead of having to pay google ). As with all mayor companies apple is guided by profit and nothing else.

Apple makes little money off of software, even less with just navigation apps. It would make much more money off of features its customers really want that come integrated with the phone. Just look at Siri, It use to be a separate app sold by another developer. How many people bought the iPhone just to get Apples version of Siri?

 

[samcraig]

Apple makes little money off of software, even less with just navigation apps. It would make much more money off of features its customers really want that come integrated with the phone. Just look at Siri, It use to be a separate app sold by another developer. How many people bought the iPhone just to get Siri?

Sold? I don't remember Siri being a paid for app. Was it ever? I know I never paid for it.

ETA: I just checked - it was never "sold." It was always free

 

[linuxcooldude]

Sold? I don't remember Siri being a paid for app. Was it ever? I know I never paid for it.

ETA: I just checked - it was never "sold." It was always free

Oops, yeah, I think it was a free app. But I never used it or knew it was in the App store before Apple bought it.

But they would make much more money selling Siri on the iPhone as a feature vs money they would get off of 30% of sales if it were a paid app.

 

[Stanjara]

Ohh

You know what Apple should do...watch their maps...then googls...and make corrections based on them... I mean there is no other way...you think that apple is reading every complain made in apple maps? Really?

The data is already there now.

Maps making smart routes...and suggestions..well that is more of a problem but based on the data that will improve and it's already doing a good job.

Satellite images...aether they will buy something new...or we will have to wait for better ones in the next couple of years...

 

[The Phazer]

You know what Apple should do...watch their maps...then googls...and make corrections based on them... I mean there is no other way...you think that apple is reading every complain made in apple maps? Really?

The data is already there now.

That would be illegal - it's a breach of copyright.

But that doesn't change the fact Apple's Maps are unusuable, and I quite agree that the idea Apple have enough staff to begin to fix this is wrong.

 

[uknowimright]

Depends which google maps your on, my 4S I was dumb enough to upgrade to iOS6, shoulda left it on iOS5 ( work phone ), Google Maps on my S3 ( personal phone ), blows the Apple Maps out of the water in every category.

If Apple is serious about comparing to Google Android Maps, they NEED to do better.

Did a comparison of my area on my iPad and compared it to Google Maps on the Nexus 7 (ugh I need to quit buying gadgets lol)

focused on the mall and Ikea that are near, Apple Maps doesn't even have the outline of the buildings while Google Maps has outlines of the buildings and even a map of the inside of both floors of Ikea and Nordstrom

 

[Habakuk]

Apple's concerns that Google was collecting too much information from iOS users…

That's the most important fact for me personally. Good that they kicked Google. Maybe some months too early. But for me better sooner than later.

S. Jobs: "We don't track anyone."

 

[KnightWRX]

It's almost as funny as people thinking Apple has a patent on "rounded corners".

Have you seen the patents in question ? Once you have, you'll be left surprised to find out they did manage to get just that. Here, click this link if you're not afraid of being shown wrong :

United States Design Patent 504889 - Electronic device

 

[Abazigal]

Did a comparison of my area on my iPad and compared it to Google Maps on the Nexus 7 (ugh I need to quit buying gadgets lol)

focused on the mall and Ikea that are near, Apple Maps doesn't even have the outline of the buildings while Google Maps has outlines of the buildings and even a map of the inside of both floors of Ikea and Nordstrom

Am I the only person here who doesn't use maps like...ever?

Honestly, there are so many new features in ios6, yet everyone is making it seem like maps is the only thing which matters. I am getting 4 new safari functions, panorama, new call options, do not disturb, 3g facetime and cool siri additions.

Even if I were just using an old 3gs, that would be ample reason for me to upgrade.

 

[KnightWRX]

It's convenience apple even has any google products on their phones. Once apple could do it themselves and give the user the best experience and functionality then why wouldn't you.

Because that stretches Apple thin. Makes them "Jacks of all trades". How about they concentrate on what they do good : hardware design, OS design, UI design. And leave what they aren't that good at to others that are : Search engines, online services like mapping, storage, e-mail, social networks.

That way, users get the best services on the best hardware with the best OS. Rather than meh services on good hardware (that could've been better if Apple had dedicated enough ressources to it) and on OK OS with UI design that's dated (only Apple doesn't have ressources to assign to it).

Remember folks, Apple operations like the world's biggest startup. That's why often they release something and don't seem to update it much. If it doesn't make a big splash, it seems to get relegated to a back burner sometimes for years, before its either abandonned fully or they make another big go at it.

Apple lacks consistency in updating its things. iAds seems to have suffered the fate of a big splash, Keynote worthy release and then... nothing. Ping got it even worse. Many of the stock apps on iOS haven't really been updated properly since launch. They took until iOS 6 to "revamp" Maps, only they revamped the portion that didn't need revamping, the back-end...

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Am I the only person here who doesn't use maps like...ever?

You must never travel abroad, or heck, just go to new places around your town. I don't stare at maps while traveling, but I'll usually give them a quick glance over before leaving to spot a few key roads, and the last mile to get to my destination (the highway exit and the few turns required).

Honestly, there are so many new features in ios6, yet everyone is making it seem like maps is the only thing which matters. I am getting 4 new safari functions, panorama, new call options, do not disturb, 3g facetime and cool siri additions.

Everyone is making it seem like maps is the only thing that sucks. Everything else was just peachy if not overly major. DnD mode on iOS was fine, Safari got updates ? Could have fooled me, anyway, I use Chrome even though it can't use the Nitro engine. Panomara was a nice gimmick exactly once, I don't see how I'll use it, and I use Camera+ anyhow, but hey it's there. Siri is disabled on my phone so I wouldn't know.

 

[Roller]

Since Apple releases a new iOS version every year, it seems like they could have kept the status quo with Google's maps under the current terms for another cycle while throwing resources into improving their own app. The damage to Apple's reputation caused by problems with their new maps may outweigh any adverse publicity or lost sales from not having turn-by-turn navigation in iOS.

 

[KnightWRX]

Since Apple releases a new iOS version every year, it seems like they could have kept the status quo with Google's maps under the current terms for another cycle while throwing resources into improving their own app. The damage to Apple's reputation caused by problems with their new maps may outweigh any adverse publicity or lost sales from not having turn-by-turn navigation in iOS.

I think they should have gone the OS X way personally. Keep the current Google Maps around for the Map Kit framework and 3rd party apps, ship the iOS 5 maps app as a default with the OS but provide the "Apple Maps Preview" in the app store as an optional download and market the crap out of it, pimp it at WWDC and the iPhone keynote, etc..

They would have gotten a lot of willing users that were ready to face an incomplete dataset and eager to report and fix things with Apple. People would have looked at it as a "work in progress with potential" rather than a "downgrade to the current experience for pretty graphics ?".

Perspective would have been completely different, crowd sourcing still there with the enthusiastic user base that wants to help and negative PR eliminated.

Then as you say, make it default in iOS 7.

 

[Bigskygangsta]

I travel quite a bit and used Garmin units forever than switched to TomTom on my iPhone, both of which worked great even though TomTom's interface has always been clunky it was extremely accurate.

Well I used the new Apple maps app for guidance these past four days and it was awesome and the interface is superior to ANY navigation on the market. I ran TomTom simultaneously on my iPad to verify the best route was chosen, and it was always correct. (I realize apple is buying the data from TomTom/teleatlas) There are a few tweaks that would be nice but having been an apple fanboy since 1984 I know apple will blow away google maps very soon.

Eric Schmidt is such a goon. I'm sure he got his ass kicked daily on the playground.

 

[Rodimus Prime]

I think they should have gone the OS X way personally. Keep the current Google Maps around for the Map Kit framework and 3rd party apps, ship the iOS 5 maps app as a default with the OS but provide the "Apple Maps Preview" in the app store as an optional download and market the crap out of it, pimp it at WWDC and the iPhone keynote, etc..

They would have gotten a lot of willing users that were ready to face an incomplete dataset and eager to report and fix things with Apple. People would have looked at it as a "work in progress with potential" rather than a "downgrade to the current experience for pretty graphics ?".

Perspective would have been completely different, crowd sourcing still there with the enthusiastic user base that wants to help and negative PR eliminated.

Then as you say, make it default in iOS 7.

True. Another thing Apple should do is provide hooks to allow an App to take over as the default app for certain things like how they do it on Android.

For example I click on something that wants to launch maps I get a pop up that lets me choose for my phone google earth or maps. I can set one to default.

Or another is I want to launch a web link from a text message. If I recently installed a new browser or I have not set a default I get a pop up that has every browser on my phone and it ask which one I want which a check box that says set as default. This allows me to over ride any of the default installed stuff. It would go more in line with Apple's argument that 3rd parties can provide the missing features. Currently yeah they can provide them but it is harder for the user to have get those to link up to different apps.

 

[uknowimright]

Google adding underwater maps

http://www.cnn.com/2012/09/26/tech/web/google-sea-view

 

[tigress666]

I'm certainly disappointed in Apple Maps. I want the maps to look like they are hand drawn and illuminated on velum with an occasional "There Be Dragons Here" thrown in for good measure.

Sweet! I'd love a "there be dragons here" on my map somewhere. That would be awesome

 

[rsocal]

Maps

I myself have had no issues with Apple Maps and I love the Turn by Turn Navigation! However I do miss Google Maps, not enough to go nuts like a lot of people saying it's so terrible, it's not! It's going to take some time with crowed sourcing and the people in Apples Map divisions, anybody that's been an Apple fan for a long time knows they will protect it! It saddens me greatly that S.J.(RIP) in IMO would not have let the App be released simply because of his true dedication to User Experience, he would have waited until it was ready. You have to also understand that to get Maps App refined has to be in the public hands for croud sourcing just like Google has been doing for years!

The only reason Google would not give them Turn by Turn is its one of the only things they have that they can use as a "hey we have turn by turn" they don't!
Being that they have basically used all Apples ideas in Andriod, I understand Apple wanting to cut all ties knowing they are snakes in the grass!

I do hope Google does come up with there own Maps App for App Store and Apple can see past the sleaze ball business men that Google is!
I also can only think of how great of a Navigation system App they could make together? It could go as far as what The Auto industry and aftermarket Nav stand alone devices?

Apple will get it refined right, it might take a couple of updates!

My iPhone 5 is awesome and I did really like my 4S with iOS 6!!!

 

[tigress666]

Everything about Apple Maps gives the impression of a company utterly out of its depth in this market. As I said Apple need to stem the bleeding on this one right now. Make a bid for Nokia. Buy Garmin. Big bold huge acquisitions of proven player in Maps.

As much as I like Apple and want to see their maps improve and all, please don't buy Garmin. I don't have enough faith in Apple in being able to do this well enough that I don't think they'd ruin Garmin. Maybe buy the info off Garmin instead (I'd prefer they use Garmin's over TomTom's anyways) but leave Garmin alone!

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Apple needs to provide it's maps on the web and obtain user data and thus make improvements to it's database. Trying to do all this internally is a lost cause.

Yep. But this is the problem, Apple wants their stuff to be features to get you to buy their hardware. And they would feel that having it open to everyone on the web would be counter to that. But it is what they need to do if they want to improve using crowd sourcing and Apple does not understand more open sourcing as much as they need to to do this well, it's counter to how they run. Google does understand it and it is why they have managed to get so much data.

And as much as I want Apple to succeed in this, it's why I'm at least a bit pessimistic if they will. I just don't see them getting over that hurdle (I doubt they'll do something like that). I like their stuff enough to be patient and hope I'm wrong though. And I already mostly used Navigon to navigate me around and wasn't planning on using maps for that anyways (I didn't have faith that apple maps would have all the features I like before all this, hell, they already didn't have downloaded maps and I want my maps on my phone), so it's not a huge deal for me at least.

 

[G51989]

Can apple buy Nokia? They are one of the few companies out there that could add to Apple's engineering effort and they have usable maps, which some people actually love. Plus, I'm not sure if they still have any Meego engineers who would surely be worthwhile for iOS development?

Apple need to regroup fast.

With the relationship between Microsoft and Nokia? I doubt it, if Apple made a bid for Nokia, i doubt Nokia would accept it, i doubt theyre for sale. They have no reason to. And even if they considered it, Microsoft would likely match and exceed any bid Apple makes

 

[KnightWRX]

True. Another thing Apple should do is provide hooks to allow an App to take over as the default app for certain things like how they do it on Android.

For example I click on something that wants to launch maps I get a pop up that lets me choose for my phone google earth or maps. I can set one to default.

Or another is I want to launch a web link from a text message. If I recently installed a new browser or I have not set a default I get a pop up that has every browser on my phone and it ask which one I want which a check box that says set as default. This allows me to over ride any of the default installed stuff. It would go more in line with Apple's argument that 3rd parties can provide the missing features. Currently yeah they can provide them but it is harder for the user to have get those to link up to different apps.

Well, they do already provide that functionality, only they've locked it down some. You can implement custom URL scheme handlers and register them for the system. It's describe in this document :

http://developer.apple.com/library/...uide/AdvancedAppTricks/AdvancedAppTricks.html

So you could make a "gmaps://" URL scheme, register it and any apps calling gmaps:// could send it a URL to open in the Google Maps application. The problem is that you can't override the default handlers : "http://", "https://", "mailto://", etc... But technically, the whole infrastructure to enable Apple to let you change default apps (ie, change apps which are attached to these standard URL scheme handlers) is already in place.

So this is again, just a choice on Apple's part. It's not even a limit of how the system is coded (iOS is very flexible and well modularized, just like you'd expect of any modern OS).

 

[alent1234]

apple doesn't need a web version of maps. only reason google did it was google maps started before smartphones

apple already has diagnostic software in the iphone along with the wifi location mapping database to automatically improve their maps

As much as I like Apple and want to see their maps improve and all, please don't buy Garmin. I don't have enough faith in Apple in being able to do this well enough that I don't think they'd ruin Garmin. Maybe buy the info off Garmin instead (I'd prefer they use Garmin's over TomTom's anyways) but leave Garmin alone!

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Yep. But this is the problem, Apple wants their stuff to be features to get you to buy their hardware. And they would feel that having it open to everyone on the web would be counter to that. But it is what they need to do if they want to improve using crowd sourcing and Apple does not understand more open sourcing as much as they need to to do this well, it's counter to how they run. Google does understand it and it is why they have managed to get so much data.

And as much as I want Apple to succeed in this, it's why I'm at least a bit pessimistic if they will. I just don't see them getting over that hurdle (I doubt they'll do something like that). I like their stuff enough to be patient and hope I'm wrong though. And I already mostly used Navigon to navigate me around and wasn't planning on using maps for that anyways (I didn't have faith that apple maps would have all the features I like before all this, hell, they already didn't have downloaded maps and I want my maps on my phone), so it's not a huge deal for me at least.

 

[Member(TM)]

Have you seen the patents in question ? Once you have, you'll be left surprised to find out they did manage to get just that. Here, click this link if you're not afraid of being shown wrong :

United States Design Patent 504889 - Electronic device

Maybe such minimalistic designs should not be patentable, but it's not a patent on rounded corners. It's a patent on a particular design that uses rounded corners. That they are not claiming a patent on rounded corners is clear from the fact that the patent itself cites prior patents from other companies that also use rounded corners.

 

[mike-sr29]

I bought an iPhone from Apple.

 

[doelcm82]

Have you seen the patents in question ? Once you have, you'll be left surprised to find out they did manage to get just that. Here, click this link if you're not afraid of being shown wrong :

United States Design Patent 504889 - Electronic device

It's a patent on ornamental design for an electronic device, "substantially as shown and described".

Rounded corners are part of this description, but rounded corners in and of themselves are not a violation.

Apple does not have a patent on rounded corners. If they did, the patent would be much shorter.