So many potential general public uses. I've listed a bunch here in the past, from information on the internet, and simply using my imagination.
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Apple's Unusual Headset Design Has Led to Unprecedented Production Challenges
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So many potential general public uses. I've listed a bunch here in the past, from information on the internet, and simply using my imagination.
- (a) Actually, wrong. Blind people prove that wrong everyday. It's actually smell.
- (b) Once it works....uh huh. Everyone knew what the iPhone could eventually do from day one. As soon as Steve pulled the stick out of his ass and allowed third party native apps in a store, it could take off. It did.
- (c) I could see what they were doing with iPhone and Watch day one. I still do not see how the VR/AR helmet/glasses moves beyond basic Snapchat.
- (d) You're assuming people want the first gen. So, the following argument is under debate.
I don’t think this is an iPhone, and that’s okay. This generation is just intended to seed the market. The initial target is application developers. There were plenty of existing apps in feature phones and mp3 players that were there to be ported to a smart phone. The killer VR/AR apps don’t exist yet. But for anyone who has an application concept in their heads, this is the killer development platform.
I think it's difficult to use examples like the iPod and phablet sized phones to gauge success of this product. Those products were filling needs that the consumer already had, but in better ways. A lot of people wanted to take music on the go with them. They had been doing it since the Walkman and Discman days, but there just wasn't a good product to do so before the iPad. Flash based MP3 players didn't work well at that time and were extremely limited. The doubters on these forums way back then used only personal preference on why the product wouldn't sell. I was on these forums at that time and most people just cared about the Mac and when the iBook was getting a G4.What if it ends up like iPad?
In a post like that, you show a personal bias: assume failure, so post an example of failure. Someone else could do the opposite.
It may flop. It may be the next iPad. It could be the next iPhone. Or the socks. None of us know until we see what it is, what it can do, what it costs, etc... and then have some time to process whatever truly new it brings to the table.
Even AFTER iPod was presented by Apple, many around here ripped it to shreds: too expensive, why would anyone want, why is Apple getting away from their core strengths, blah-blah-blah. We know how that collective "expertise" proved out.
There was overwhelming contempt by just about everyone around here towards phablet-sized phones BEFORE Apple went there. "One handed use", "pants with bigger pockets", "fragmentation", "man purses", etc. And then Apple revealed their phablet and just about ALL of that evaporated almost over night. Now "we" somewhat ridicule the smaller iPhones that "nobody wants to buy." And I'm still watching for all those man purses and bigger pockets.
History shows how this generally goes. We hate just about anything and everything until Apple rolls out their cut at something. Then it seems to flip to "shut up and take my money" and "how did we ever get by without". Maybe this will be the exception to that regularly, repeating history... or not. We'll see in the coming days & weeks.
Phablet style phones became popular as people who already had a smartphone started to use it as their main device. It was just an extension of an already popular device. A 3.5 to 4 inch phone is just not ideal anymore with how people use their smartphone. Pushback against large screens here has always been a vocal minority and based only on personal preference.
This device is a new category. It really isn't something people are going to walk around using all day like an iPod or iPhone. I mean some people might, but I'm not walking around the grocery store with one strapped to my face. I'm not saying it won't be successful. Maybe in 5 years everyone will be a zombie with one of these on their head no longer having any human interaction. I just wanted to respond because I think it's impossible to draw conclusions based on those other products.
AR glasses could absolutely be a viable phone replacement eventually if the tech gets to a certain point since it would have all the same usecases, and should be able to do them all better/faster. A headset on the other hand will be more about home usecases, so that could allow it to be a viable PC/Display replacement when the tech is feasible enough.
So yes, it very well could eventually make people question whether or not they need a new laptop. This is afterall, a computing device.
We'll see. I remain hopeful. I'm not rooting against the device. We haven't even seen it yet. One of the most important things that this device needs to be ... is lightweight ... and it seems like that is going to the the case.
Smell is absolutely not the most important or dominant sense. Come on now.
Do you think we survived this long because we had a focused center of vision in addition to peripheral vision that captured movement? Or because we could smell danger?
I wonder.
No I don’t.
The primary issue with it is that you wear it on your FACE. I get that you and others don’t think that’s an issue. But it is. A HUGE ONE.
So? 20 million is nothing.
And again. You wear it on your face. That single hurdle alone will bar the majority from even considering it.
People asked the same question when computers came out! lol The rest is History!
So you’re a shut-in who doesn’t value real life experiences? Good for you. Enjoy your isolating face toy.
No they didn’t. The issue with computers wasn’t the use case. The issue was poor UX and low-powered home based hardware.
Having seen your potential use cases I’d submit that many if not most of them will require a legislative framework before they become viable. There’s no way (for example) that these will be legal to wear while driving.
- "Vision is the most important sense to most people."
Which part of the sentence above do you disagree with? I mean, give me a fscking break. I offer you the chance to lose smell or to be blinded, you would choose being blinded? And you think most other people would do the same???
- I specifically said that most people should not buy, and may not even want, the first generation.
You seem to be really intent on fighting a set of claims that I never made.
You also seem totally unaware of history.
How many iPhone gen 1 did Apple sell? 6M. Fewer than the 10M Apple watches sold in the first year.
People are remarkable in their ability both to reject the unfamiliar when it is new, and then to backproject that they got it right away, that they were one of the visionaries who knew immediately where the world was headed...
HobeSoundDarryl
macrumors G5
Good points. Obviously, I lean positive on this concept (and if you follow my posts around here in general, you know I'm far from being a fanboy, so that says more than it implies) and I contribute what I consider "Think different" imagination of how it might be used. In all of my imagination about it, I never imagine it being continuously strapped to people's faces at all times... just as the all-important iPhone is not out of the pockets and in front of even the MAX social media teenagers face at all times. I don't envision this EVER going there... unless maybe we reach a state where the same functionality can be realized in "invisible" contacts or some kind of retinal implant (because some people would not be interested in "four eyes" perceptions even if this looked like regular glasses).
My own greatest interest in it is good quality virtual screen. Right now, there are MANY players trying to figure out a way to deliver bigger screens in mobile devices. We've seen early attempts at phones with folding screens. There are also rolling screens. The folding approach is being tried with laptops too... because even 16" laptop screens are not enough screen RE for some people...
I'm in that camp. I do much work on a Mac hooked to a 40" 5K ultra-wide screen. When I have to hit the road and shift to a 16" wide MBpro, it is sooooooo constraining. Suddenly my efficiency feels like it has crashed.
One (easy?) application of AR/VR is virtual screens. There are already examples of MBs with broken lids being repurposed as Commodore 64-like Macs, in which the bottom "half" is disconnected from the broken lid and is then used with typical monitors.
Can Goggles bring an ANY size monitor as a new form factor laptop equivalent? For example, could it replicate my desktop setup when I'm on the plane, in the hotel, etc? I look at a demo of much inferior, off the shelf technology like this...
... to see that there is potential for this HALF MB + Goggles in the laptop bag and my very common problem of cramped screen RE on the road being easily solved. If Apple Goggles can do that ONE thing well as implied by that commercial- even at $3K- I'm VERY INTERESTED!
There is a 2018 patent filed by Apple that shows exactly that. And the guy behind that product in the above commercial's prior company was purchased by Apple about 10 years ago.
Many, many, many of us just fell all over ourselves spending about $2K for an iMac 27" without the computer, keyboard or mouse... and then evangelize it as the one and only monitor for anyone else monitor shopping. That product is basically locked in what will likely be one spot for the life of the device. $2K for that was perfectly fine but rumored $1K more for this is insanity???
Many of us regularly bring up the longing for a bigger screen MB, an iMac "bigger", even some want a foldable iPhone... all showing a desire for more screen RE. What would we PAY for those products?
What if Apple decided to take on this bigger mobile screen want without the crease and without the heft of physically delivering a 20" MB, a 24" MB, a 30" MB, etc. Perhaps Goggles could deliver this? If this- and ONLY this done well- that would be enough for me. I'd LOVE a 40" ultra-wide MB without the physical heft of that thing. These existing glasses/goggles generally talk about 100"-200" virtual screens. WOW!!!
I'd use them like I use laptops. Pull them out when I need a screen, put them away when I don't. I'm never using a laptop at all hours of every day. Laptop in bag. Phone in pocket. Goggles in bag. Until something is needed and then use it. Pull out a laptop and open a lid to see a screen. Pull out Goggles and slip them on to see a screen. To my imagination, that's the same general effort, same usage, etc.
Will Apple Goggles deliver this? I don't know. I don't know what "IT" is yet. But I'm hoping for a 40" ultra-wide MB in my future... MINUS the weight and size of that in a physical aluminum case. Imagine the 12" MB keyboard + trackpad in the bag + Goggles. WOW!
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I feel like they could design the coolest looking headset, but as long as it requires a cable down to a waist battery pack it will always look silly.
Not to mention that it sounds cumbersome to need to set up the headset, cable and battery pack every time you want to use it. The opposite of ‘it just works’.
Even if Apple makes the best device possible, it seems like current tech just isn’t ready yet.
Not to mention that it sounds cumbersome to need to set up the headset, cable and battery pack every time you want to use it. The opposite of ‘it just works’.
Even if Apple makes the best device possible, it seems like current tech just isn’t ready yet.
People freaked out about wearing masks on their face during covid. I know a lot of people who wear contacts or get lasik surgery to avoid wearing eye glasses. Maybe this will be different. People say it'll just be used in the home, but in that case it seems like an expensive purchase. It's just hard telling how the general population is going to react to this device.
Where’s the value proposition? You’re better off buying a physical screen in this scenario.
I NEVER offered that as a use case. You must be thinking of someone else.
"There’s no way (for example) that these will be legal to wear while driving"
I agree, at least for the short term.
HobeSoundDarryl
macrumors G5
I have a 40" ultra wide (physical) screen. I won't be able to bring it on the plane, or train or set it up impromptu and use it anywhere that I would use a laptop... nor would I want to lug it to all such use locations even if it was allowed.
But a virtual 40" ultra-wide screen requires no physical space. I could have my best desktop Mac setup ANYWHERE I go. For my work, that would be much better than doing what I do now, which is try to make do on a much more cramped 16" screen. I'm ultra-efficient with abundant screen space. I'm not on 16".
So I would use the 40" UW at my main desk and use Goggles in "road warrior" mode, exactly as I do now but subbing in MBpro when on the road. The value proposition is that 40" or bigger screen(s) RE anywhere I am wanting to get some work done (efficiently) on that laptop.
One common misconception is an idea that if Goggles as screen = no physical screens. That's not what I envision. Instead "as is" physical screens still get used in many cases- particularly desktops and for side-by-side collaboration, etc. But the laptop practically begs for new innovation. We want bigger screens. People around here regularly post desire to revive the MBpro 17". Sometimes I see 18" and 20" wants too. Do we want MBpro folding screens (and the thickness and weight that would come with that)? Any other way to get much more screen RE without the physical burden? Maybe this offers a new kind of mobile laptop computer for some of us? I hope so.
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This is actually a use case I imagine may be useful. You walk into a store, look at a product. Your glasses scan the product, show you similar products, allow you to compare features, price compare with other sellers, etc.
Of course, I have no idea yet whether Apple's glasses can be used this way, or whether doing this through a glasses interface is more convenient than just doing this with your iPhone. But it's something I've imagined doing ever since I heard of the concept of smart glasses.
Fragile Highly breakable glass which may distort the image, Impractical but done because it looks nice.
Didn't know Jony Ive got involved
Didn't know Jony Ive got involved
oooh, the wwdc pre-amble is hot-to-trot. This is quite interesting. Alot of naysayers, and alot of letsgo people.
We will see in a few days. What if all that comes out of WWDC is just a 15inch Macbook Air M2? I think we should fire Gurman if that comes to pass xD
Most arguments for and against are somewhat moot, as in neither camp knows exactly if any of their points are real. At the very least we will know.
We will see in a few days. What if all that comes out of WWDC is just a 15inch Macbook Air M2? I think we should fire Gurman if that comes to pass xD
Most arguments for and against are somewhat moot, as in neither camp knows exactly if any of their points are real. At the very least we will know.