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AppleWorks X?

alanbuilds said:
the fact that Appleworks is left off the "pro" models is, IMHO, ridiculous beyond belief.
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I understand your point exactly. I'm one of those who has to shell out a few more bucks for AppleWorks on my pro machines. Not a big expense, but inconvenient and annoying.

I can theorize why Apple does this, however. It would cost them nothing to include AppleWorks with all Macs, but if they bundled it in, pro purchasers might complain that they are paying for AppleWorks when they need pro applications like Office and will be buying them anyway. Then they will demand that Apple offer the same box without AppleWorks for a few dollars less. Since Apple can't win, they keep the distinction they've had, and they get the least griping because people are used to the arrangement.

So you and I can continue to gripe but I don't expect this policy to change.

A rose by any other name would smell as sweet, but if AppleWorks X is given that name I'd expect it to continue to be free with new consumer Macs and not with pro Macs, while if the same package is released as iWord or PencilPusher or MacWorks I wouldn't be surprised to see Apple change the policy they've had for AppleWorks.
 
Zaty said:
So Apple is working on an update to AW? The name "Apple Works X" could suggest its entirely written in Cocoa. It would be nice if there was some serious competiton to MS Office. Bring it on!
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so I should remind all you people who I am about to read saying that this could compete with office: Apple Works isn't supposed to compete with a full office solution, it is a totally different animal, it is designed to compete with MS Works, which it does. Put any 'works' suite up against an office suite and it will lose.
 
morkintosh said:
so I should remind all you people who I am about to read saying that this could compete with office: Apple Works isn't supposed to compete with a full office solution, it is a totally different animal, it is designed to compete with MS Works, which it does. Put any 'works' suite up against an office suite and it will lose.
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I'm fully aware that AW is not in the same league as MS Office. My point was that as of today, (IMHO), there is no alternative to MS Office. AW 6 is outdated, OOO is not there yet.
 
Appleworks and thoughts

No, for some reason, Appleworks updates never seem to show up in software update. I guess, once again, it's because it's a "holdover" app from MacOS 9.x and earlier days - so they don't consider it part of their group of native OS X apps that software update knows about.

Personally, I avoid Appleworks completely, except when I'm forced to use it to open someone else's document made with it. If they did a *lot* of work on a new, native OS X version, it could have potential. But I really don't listen much to the folks who preach how "easy to use" and "superior" a product it is. I used to work for a guy who absolutely loved Appleworks, and published pretty much all of his business advertising/marketing paperwork, plus spreadsheets in it. It was a nightmare to update/edit those files!

I ran into all sorts of odd page formatting issues, for starters. You'd insert a little text, or change some entries in a spreadsheet cell or two, and all of a sudden, printers were cutting off the left or right margins of every page - despite print previews looking just fine. There were often very non-intuitive key combos to hold down while clicking to work with graphics, too. I can forgive a lack of "power user" type features - because it's more of Apple's answer to Microsoft Works than to Microsoft Office, but the basics should work flawlessly and with intuitive ease. I think it loses out on both counts.


latergator116 said:
I didn't even know they had an AW 6.2.9. Don't these type of things usually show up in software update?
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macsrus said:
Apple works

Bah who cares
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Well... counting the replies: many of us do. 😉

I have wondered why Apple has not participated in something like NeoOffce (i.e. OpenOffice for Aqua), or any other Office-compatible app or suite.
Mariner Software is doing a gr8 job building Word/Excel apps for Mac OS X. Someone also mentioned Mellel which is IMHO the prettiest word-proc app ever made! I'm buying that one.

So others are trying to make some very decent M$ Office alternatives.

Why not Apple?

Are they afraid that if M$ would drop Office, that they would loose the few office-Macintosh customers they have?
Does it take too much time (read: too expensive) to develop an absolute Office-cracker which is 100% compatible with its M$ counterpart?
Or are they really trying to do so, but only have Keynote ready for now.... I mean, are they creating the perfect MacOffice Suite X, without rushing it. Like Doom 3: "ready when it's done".

Here's to hoping.
 
MacsRgr8 said:
Well... counting the replies: many of us do. 😉

I have wondered why Apple has not participated in something like NeoOffce (i.e. OpenOffice for Aqua), or any other Office-compatible app or suite.
Mariner Software is doing a gr8 job building Word/Excel apps for Mac OS X. Someone also mentioned Mellel which is IMHO the prettiest word-proc app ever made! I'm buying that one.

So others are trying to make some very decent M$ Office alternatives.

Why not Apple?

Are they afraid that if M$ would drop Office, that they would loose the few office-Macintosh customers they have?
Does it take too much time (read: too expensive) to develop an absolute Office-cracker which is 100% compatible with its M$ counterpart?
Or are they really trying to do so, but only have Keynote ready for now.... I mean, are they creating the perfect MacOffice Suite X, without rushing it. Like Doom 3: "ready when it's done".

Here's to hoping.
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My guess is option 3 - Apple's working on an office suite that will blow us away, but they want to make sure it's done right before releasing it. We already have bits and pieces of it - we have Keynote for presentations, and surely the word processor will benefit from the fantastic text functions Cocoa (TextEdit) has. All that's missing are a spreadsheet app and a database app. We already have the basis of an email and contacts system (Mac OS X Mail and Address Book) plus calendaring (iCal) - Apple can build on this in their office suite.
 
come on apple..

I hate MS and I hate to use their products when there is no other better option around.. come on apple, rescue us from B.Gates, at least on office stuff..
 
Let's not forget Draw!

At the moment, I float pretty freely between MS Office and AW (on both the Mac and PC sitting right next to each other at work), so I'd like to think of myself as being fairly objective (if you ignore the Apple sticker on my bumper).

AW is generally the first tool that I grab. It's been an "app"endage to my body since CW2. It's simple to use. It's super reliable (well, except for some strange Windows issues in v4 and v5.) It just works. And it allows me to focus on the task at hand - not the application.

That said, I grab Word or Excel when the document I'm creating needs a feature not yet available in AW. For example - the ability to fill shapes with pictures by tiling or stretching (can someone tell me how on earth this feature has eluded Apple for so long?).

To not repeat things already said, I hope any new versions of AW keep in mind the following:

a) The "DRAW" component is the most natural environment for taking advantage of AW's "frames" genetic makeup (which needs to be kept, btw). MSWord will never replace AW to me. Despite its more advanced graphics, it's still a word processor that lets you clumsily dump things on top of it. Give AW's "Draw" opacity control, picture fills, and the ability to recognize non-rectangular pictures, and formatting rulers for text boxes, and noone will ever try to make a sign or a brochure in Word again.

b) Bring back Macros. When I bought AW 5 (since CW4 and Win98 weren't getting along), macros were gone. I called Apple to find out where they were (they were listed as a feature on Apple's web site), and I was told AW for Windows didn't have macros because macros were now Applescript based (and Windows didn't have Applescript). That's not a way to make a multi-platform application. I don't care if it's Applescript behind the scenes, but a Macro should be the same up front for everyone.

So, I guess what I want is:
1. Word processor that maintains AW's stability and reliability. If I delete the last letter of a word, I don't want that word's font and style changing on me (I can't believe MS can't fix that).

2. Draw - Start with what's there, as far as ease of frames and merging data, but add:
a) All the good stuff from Keynote - opacity, recognition of non-rectangular pics, snappy alignment, etc.
b) For multi-page draw documents, have an option for each page to have its own origin (rather than starting at ten and a fraction inches).

3. FileMaker Lite - a two-dim database as easy to use as the current that can merge data into all the other components.

4. Spreadsheet - just copy Excel. 😉

5. Keynote - just add timer controls.

Make it fully cross-platform. And, for crying out loud, bring back the old tool bar. I don't need a huge colorful tool bar that prevents me from moving my window around. Put it back where it belongs and keep it simple and out of the way.

All this - and I will be one happy camper.
 
wrldwzrd89 said:
My guess is option 3 - Apple's working on an office suite that will blow us away, but they want to make sure it's done right before releasing it. We already have bits and pieces of it - we have Keynote for presentations, and surely the word processor will benefit from the fantastic text functions Cocoa (TextEdit) has. All that's missing are a spreadsheet app and a database app. We already have the basis of an email and contacts system (Mac OS X Mail and Address Book) plus calendaring (iCal) - Apple can build on this in their office suite.
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I doubt Apple is working on a office suite a la MS. Don't forget, even if Apple came out with a suite that was better than MS Office (which, in all fairness to MS, is not an easy task), they wouldn't want to upset Bill Gates too much, so that MS might stop developing Office for Mac. Apple still needs MS Office for compatibilty. Furthermore, wasn't MS Office for Mac one of the things they used to convince potential switchter to do the switch? After all, we're living in a Microsoft-centric world, like it or not. Some people might come up with the argument that as longs as MS makes good money from Office for Mac, they won't leave the Mac platform. True, but MS could afford to do without the money from Mac software. In a nutshell, if MS got really angry with Apple, they would have the financial pontential to badly hurt Apple if not destroy them. That's definitely not what neither Apple Computer nor us Mac users want, right?

That being said, a little bit of competiton for MS wouldn't hurt either. That's why Keynote was a smart move by Apple. I doubt Powerpoint 2004 would be as good if it wasn't for keynote. So, a better AW which has everything the average home user needs, would be a good thing, but not an entire office suite.
 
Zaty said:
I doubt Apple is working on a office suite a la MS. Don't forget, even if Apple came out with a suite that was better than MS Office (which, in all fairness to MS, is not an easy task), they wouldn't want to upset Bill Gates too much, so that MS might stop developing Office for Mac. Apple still needs MS Office for compatibilty. Furthermore, wasn't MS Office for Mac one of the things they used to convince potential switchter to do the switch? After all, we're living in a Microsoft-centric world, like it or not. Some people might come up with the argument that as longs as MS makes good money from Office for Mac, they won't leave the Mac platform. True, but MS could afford to do without the money from Mac software. In a nutshell, if MS got really angry with Apple, they would have the financial pontential to badly hurt Apple if not destroy them. That's definitely not what neither Apple Computer nor us Mac users want, right?

That being said, a little bit of competiton for MS wouldn't hurt either. That's why Keynote was a smart move by Apple. I doubt Powerpoint 2004 would be as good if it wasn't for keynote. So, a better AW which has everything the average home user needs, would be a good thing, but not an entire office suite.
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In that case, if Apple does nothing but release a spreadsheet app (hopefully based on Gnumeric), I'll be happy. I'd like to have a spreadsheet application that doesn't use X11, isn't part of Microsoft Office, and isn't part of AppleWorks.
 
Apple is not out to out-office Office

When Apple came out with keynote, I thought they were on their way to making an MS Office killer. I was wrong. They have not updated Keynote or given it any new features since its release (i am talking about major updates). That is a program they sell, you would expect them to try to keep that thing up to date and fresh. So if they do come out with an Appleworks X it will be a nice app when it comes out and wow a lot of people. But I just don't think Apple wants to make a dent in Office sales. So it won't have all the features that people would want in an Office clone and it wont get them any time soon because Apple doesn't update those apps regularly.
 
Steve Jobs explained that Keynote was created to suit his personal needs for giving presentations such as his talks at Macworld (hence the name Keynote), and that they released it because it was so cool and wonderful that everyone should get to use it.

That's probably true, although making an in-house tool and releasing a full-fledged product are quite different levels of effort, so they clearly had a releasable product in mind.

But the lack of updates may be a further result of its origin. If Jobs has the features he needs, he may not be pushing for an update to the product.
 
Why on earth would someone write a book about a 2 year old outdated word processor when they can write a book about a 6 month old word processor?
 
reyesmac said:
When Apple came out with keynote, I thought they were on their way to making an MS Office killer. I was wrong. They have not updated Keynote or given it any new features since its release (i am talking about major updates). That is a program they sell, you would expect them to try to keep that thing up to date and fresh. So if they do come out with an Appleworks X it will be a nice app when it comes out and wow a lot of people. But I just don't think Apple wants to make a dent in Office sales. So it won't have all the features that people would want in an Office clone and it wont get them any time soon because Apple doesn't update those apps regularly.
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Why bother making a product that you are purposely making crappy.
 
IJ Reilly said:
Just a reminder of Apple's iWrite trademark filing last winter, the hiring of developers from Gobe a few months prior.
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That mark application (currently not approved) was filed by a company called "Appple Computer." I guess that the new word processor, if any, doesn't include a spelling checker.
 
my two cents.....

an OS-X version of AppleWorks *must* be in the pipeline somewhere.
i am keen (when I do my upgrade/SwitchBack) to make my new system as M$ free as possible. unfortunatly, many, many, many PR/Media firms use M$Word almost exclusivley and insist on e-mailing me their drivel in that format. what I want from an "office" suite is the ability to OPEN M$Word docs & re-save them as text only format so I can import them into InDesign CS and slap on the page.
i can think of a great many better things to do with AUD$700 than simply give it to M$ to buy a suite i will never use, except as a "browser". 😡
i'm keen to use NeoOffice when ver 1.0 is released, but otherwise will get AW if available when i upgrade.
a lot of mac users would love a M$Orifice alternative & would use same simply 'cause getting it won't make M$ richer.

just my opinion........ 😛
 
sambo. said:
what I want from an "office" suite is the ability to OPEN M$Word docs & re-save them as text only format so I can import them into InDesign CS and slap on the page.
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You can already do that with the TextEdit that comes with OS X.
 
iMeowbot said:
You can already do that with the TextEdit that comes with OS X.
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You bet. And I use WordService* in TextEdit to quickly reformat those gobbledegook Word documents into something that won't choke a desktop publication. Couldn't stay sane without it. But I still need a moderately powerful word processing application, and increasingly AW isn't cutting it. The way it handles style sheets is ghastly.

*A freebee download, check VersionTracker
 
Doctor Q said:
Steve Jobs explained that Keynote was created to suit his personal needs for giving presentations such as his talks at Macworld (hence the name Keynote), and that they released it because it was so cool and wonderful that everyone should get to use it.

That's probably true, although making an in-house tool and releasing a full-fledged product are quite different levels of effort, so they clearly had a releasable product in mind.

But the lack of updates may be a further result of its origin. If Jobs has the features he needs, he may not be pushing for an update to the product.
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Actually its a very common practice for companies to do what Apple did with keynote...
For example
The entire Oracle finacials product line came about as a result of oracle using it internally...
 
IJ Reilly said:
But I still need a moderately powerful word processing application, and increasingly AW isn't cutting it. The way it handles style sheets is ghastly.
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Funny thing about that. The chocolatey goodness in TextEdit is pretty much all stuff available in the OS X frameworks, and a more capable word processor is low-hanging fruit* for someone to grab. I'd even give it a stab if I wasn't so darned apathetic about it 😀

*I hate that phrase, "low hanging fruit", that's why I used it.
 
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