Are Apple iBooks Next?

[mkaake]

Re: Waiting for Bigot

Originally posted by mvc
Ahh the 'b' word again.

<snip>

But, in the interests of further discussion, please, tell me if anyone can find a 14" CURRENTLY in production by any of Apples major competitors which only displays 1024 x 768 pixels. Then you'll have some facts to hit me over the head with. Find half a dozen and I'll take off my white pointy hood and extinguish the burning cross!

i am writing this on a compaq evo n610c, which has a 14 inch screen and a max resolution of 1024x768.

oh, and it's the standard issue laptop for everyone who works at GM and gets a laptop.

*cough*

matt

 

[mkaake]

more 14 at 1024

okay, i haven't even left hp's website yet...

hp ze4401
hp ze4501
hp ze 4420
hp ze4502
hp ze4430
hp ze4402
hp ze5501

etc etc etc.

oh, and fwiw, a bunch of those are 15 inchers.

guess you can take off that funny hat, huh?

matt

<edit>

or you could go to sony's website - their consumer (and we are talking about the apple consumer machine, remember) machines... the vaio frv28 is 15 inches and 1024 x 768...

oh, the dell inspiron 5100, 1100; lattitude d600.. blah blah blah

do you want me to keep going, or have you realized that this board isn't the best place to get the general idea of what's *normal*

again, like everyone saying that the BT keyboard and mouse would surely die a quick death because *no one* wants/needs/uses a single button mouse... hmm - check out the stories on macbytes.com today...

so please, before you think that something commonly said around here is true, step out of it for a minute and research what you're saying...

matt

 

[illumin8]

Originally posted by macphoria
1MB L2 Cache? Wow. This thing is going to kick some major booty!

My thoughts exactly. A 1MB L2 cache on a 1.1ghz G3 processor would probably blow away a Motorola 7457 processor (the ones currently in the new powerbooks).

Clock for clock the G3 w/ 1MB L2 vs. the G4 w/ 512k L2 I would expect to see the G4 handily beat, except of course in programs that are Altivec optimized.

 

[Dave K]

Re: Waiting for Bigot

Originally posted by mvc
But, in the interests of further discussion, please, tell me if anyone can find a 14" CURRENTLY in production by any of Apples major competitors which only displays 1024 x 768 pixels. Then you'll have some facts to hit me over the head with. Find half a dozen and I'll take off my white pointy hood and extinguish the burning cross!

To join in the fun,

From what I can see, nearly all of Toshiba Canada's notebook output at all screen sizes is at 1024X768

http://www.toshiba.ca/web/products.grp?lg=en&section=1&group=1

Much higher than that becomes hard on the eyes for most users.

Higher res screens is a niche market offering that really only appeals to people who work with products that throw a pile of pallets on the screen. I'd wager that the vast majority of non-widescreen consumer laptop screens you'd find on the shelf at Best Buy/CompUSA/Pick Your favourite local retailer are at 1024X768.

 

[chacha75]

My one wish would actually be for the iBooks to get *smaller* - at least offer a smaller version. Something like a subnotebook, but relatively full-featured. Like a 10" for $ 699 with CD-ROM. Just perfect for grade school kids, teens, or anyone who just needs a cheap little machine to write notes on or check email on the road, but does their real work on a desktop machine.

But I know it's not going to happen, of course, just dreamin'.

You know...I saw a NEC or Toshiba notebook (can't remember which company) with a 12" widescreen at 1280x786 resolution and the dot pitch was absolutely beautiful. I would really like to see a PB/iBook or some new line with this type of screen. I would also be totally fine to have an external firewire CD/DVD-RW to get a Mac under 3.5 lbs. Even though my iBook is under 5 lbs, it still hurts my shoulder/back after over an hour commute on a crowded train...

chacha

 

[patmcfar8]

Originally posted by splashman
I imagine you're a very thoughtful and insightful individual. But you sound sophomoric when you whine about Apple's priorities not being the same as your own.

LOL! That may actually be the most true and profound statement I've ever read on a Mac board.

Splashman, if you would allow it, I'd like to make that my signature.

I would like to add one thing to this disscussion: I believe that when Apple and IBM are able to get the G5 into the powerbook, we may see them drop the G4 all togethor and impliment whatever the lateset version of the G3 is... if it truly is better.

 

[hayesk]

Re: Re: More 14" bigotry

Originally posted by mvc
, an niche combined of those who genuinely prefer the bigger text, and ALSO those who know no better or worse are frankly mislead - so addressing that niche doesn't make their methods and motivations somehow benevolent.

Sorry, but that's BS. I have a friend who has been developing software for MacOS X since it came out, and used to program NeXTStep software before that. He also does Windows development. i.e. - he is technically savvy. He bought a 14" iBook. I asked why not the 12" - he said simply, I want bigger pixels. He knew exactly what he was getting and chose it on purpose. I have also heard people claiming after seeing a 12" screen that it was too hard to see.

Why is it so hard for you to believe that some people (even technology-savvy people) want 1024x768 at a larger size?

 

[Phil Of Mac]

Re: Re: Re: Re: More 14" bigotry

Originally posted by mvc
Presumably more expensive, as there is a $200 price difference between the two models for virtually no gain. Go check the website. You are paying a lot more for those bigger pixels.

Lots of people are gladly willing to pay a lot more for bigger pixels. You're not.

SO DON'T BUY ONE, YOU CHUMP!

Originally posted by mvc
Now I am a sophomore, because I don't feel this machine is good value compared to its smaller peer? A little dramatic I think!

I suggest you should look up "sophomoric" in the dictionary. It doesn't mean you're a sophomore.

 

[Phil Of Mac]

Originally posted by patmcfar8
I would like to add one thing to this disscussion: I believe that when Apple and IBM are able to get the G5 into the powerbook, we may see them drop the G4 all togethor and impliment whatever the lateset version of the G3 is... if it truly is better.

Nahh...I think they'll put a low-GHz G5 in the iBook and a high-GHz G5 in the PowerBook.

That's what they did with the G3.

 

[JrbM689]

BT Mouse

In response to all the talk on the single button Wireless Mouse, I was thinking of an Apple branded metallic 2-button mouse with some sort of uniquely colored laser to light the surface.

If not the above product, I was thinking of integrating a 1 and 2 button mouse TOGETHER. It would look basically like the current one but would left click by tilting diagonally left and right click by tilting diagonally right. There would be a switch on the bottom of the mouse (similar to the current circular one) to select either multibutton or single. It would change the mechanism inside to then only have a single forward down click. You can read more about this mouse in the next issue of:
"Things I Wish Actually Happened"
-Norm Macdonald was hilarious on SNL Weekend Update

 

[Tequila Grandma]

Re: next update

Originally posted by iPC
My guess for the next 12" iBook update:

same G3 but at 1GHz
200MHz bus
Airport Extreme
BlueTooth
256MB RAM on motherboard
combo drive
40GB hdd
$1199

Current gen G3 goes to 1GHz with 200MHz bus. Might as well use it now...

Add "Original translucent case" to this list, and this would be the perfect update. However, I don't really think it'll happen, at least not at that price. Apple will keep using 128mb of RAM standard on the iBook because a lot of consumers don't even know what RAM is, and therefore it's an easy way to cut costs. However, I personally think that limiting the RAM on the iBooks to 128 by default is not a good move. OS X runs like crap on only 128 mb of RAM, but give a regular user a little bit more (256), and they'll have all the RAM they'll ever really need for what they do, but if you give them 128, the RAM will get filled in a minute, and then the computer will run incredibly slow - to many "switchers" who don't know that the miniscule amount of RAM is their problem, they'll simply deduce that "Macs are sooo slow - I was stupid for getting one, and I won't do it again".

I think that it would be a great idea to up the RAM on the motherboard to 256, even if that means a small price increase.

 

[iPC]

Originally posted by chacha75
You know...I saw a NEC or Toshiba notebook (can't remember which company) with a 12" widescreen at 1280x786 resolution and the dot pitch was absolutely beautiful. I would really like to see a PB/iBook or some new line with this type of screen. I would also be totally fine to have an external firewire CD/DVD-RW to get a Mac under 3.5 lbs. Even though my iBook is under 5 lbs, it still hurts my shoulder/back after over an hour commute on a crowded train...

chacha

Fujitsu has a few different widescreens available...

http://www.fujitsupc.com/www/productbridge_pseries.shtml

I know a guy with the P2120 and it is a sweet little machine. Dual boot setup (winxp and redhat). Fast enough machine to compile 2.6.0(pre4) kernel while watching a DVD, w/o frame drops! Comes with modular bay (optical drive or 2nd battery), and makes my 12" iBook look like a big bloated beast!

 

[Photorun]

I know a guy with the P2120 and it is a sweet little machine. Dual boot setup (winxp and redhat). Fast enough machine to compile 2.6.0(pre4) kernel while watching a DVD, w/o frame drops! Comes with modular bay (optical drive or 2nd battery), and makes my 12" iBook look like a big bloated beast!

WTF? This ain't peecee forums, want to sell peecees find some Wintel circle jerk out there, this is a Mac forum! Not to mention that crappy Fujiwhatsits notebook is even quite a bit more expensive then the iBook starting at $1500 and up, you don't even get a friggin' CD drive until you go up another $100 from that. Hell, the Powerbook 12 bitchsmacks that machine for about the same price, why get a craptacular machine when you can get an original. Sure if you want one of your boots to be XP but unless you're on smack that's just plain stupid.

 

[simX]

Originally posted by chacha75
Even though my iBook is under 5 lbs, it still hurts my shoulder/back after over an hour commute on a crowded train...

chacha

Sounds like someone's never been to high school or college, where you often have to carry around 20+ pounds of books in your backpack.

I'm not trying to offend or anything here (especially if you have some sort of condition that makes your back incredibly sensitive), and I definitely think that Apple should continue to try to lessen the weight of their portables, but 5 pounds is not back-breaking, by any means. Taking out the CD drive to create a "subnotebook" is just dumb, IMHO.

 

[true777]

Originally posted by Photorun
WTF? This ain't peecee forums, want to sell peecees find some Wintel circle jerk out there, this is a Mac forum! Not to mention that crappy Fujiwhatsits notebook is even quite a bit more expensive then the iBook starting at $1500 and up, you don't even get a friggin' CD drive until you go up another $100 from that. Hell, the Powerbook 12 bitchsmacks that machine for about the same price, why get a craptacular machine when you can get an original. Sure if you want one of your boots to be XP but unless you're on smack that's just plain stupid.

The point is, some of us would actually like a *smaller*, lighter iBook -
something ultra-light and compact like a subnotebook, but relatively full-featured and elegant, not to menion cheap. A spiffy, tiny thing.

The PC references are just to underscore that this can be done, and that Apple could do it with the iBook. Since Apple doesn't have a machine for this niche out, we obviously can't reference Apple

I still think that this would be a great new niche for the iBook - both as an absolute entry machine for school kids, and as an unltra-lightweight choice for folks who do all their serious stuff on a desktop and want an ultra-compact machine for email and word processing while on the road.

Since there are quite successful machines like this out in the PC world, that's what folks have been mentioning here. If you ride a bullet train in Japan, you'll see folks in every car typing away on their super-slim, tiny, cool sub-notebooks, so it would be just great if Apple would add a model like this to their iBook lineup - and with Ive's best-of-class industrial engineering, they could probably fit a pretty full-featured feature set inside.

 

[true777]

Originally posted by simX
...

5 pounds is not back-breaking, by any means. Taking out the CD drive to create a "subnotebook" is just dumb, IMHO.

There definitely is a market for this, even if you're not personally interested (look at my Japanese train reference above). If they made the screen 10" or so, they could probably fit a CD-ROM drive and still keep it very small and light.

See, us girls don't like to log around big ugly backpacks... it would be great to have a little thing you could actually have on you all the time, but that's still a reasonably featured notebook. I would buy a 3.6 lb 10" iBook for $ 699 or 799 right away... the reason I still don't have an iBook or PB is that they're still too big for me. I'd like something tiny, and I don't think I'm the only one.

BTW - unrelated remark - wouldn't the XServe be due for an update even before the iBook?

 

[macMaestro]

Here's my guesses for what Apple's lineup will look like come June 2004... Or more like what I hope Apple's lineup will look like.

GOBI eMac

3 models:
1.0 Ghz CD/RW $599
1.0 Ghz Combo $799
1.2 Ghz Superdrive$1099

GOBI iBook

3 models:
1.0 Ghz 12" CD/RW $799
1.0 Ghz 12" Combo $999
1.2 Ghz 14" Superdrive $1299

GOBI iMac

2 models:
1.2 Ghz 12" Combo $1299
1.4 Ghz 17" Superdrive $1799

G5 PowerBook

4 models:
1.4 Ghz 12" Combo $1599
1.4 Ghz 12" Superdrive $1799
1.6 Ghz 15" Superdrive $2599
1.6 Ghz 17" Superdrive $2999

G5 PowerMac

3 Models:
2.6 Ghz $1999
2.8 Ghz $2399
Dual 3.0 Ghz $2999

PLUS:

GOBI Cube
1.2 Ghz Combo $1099
1.2 Ghz Superdrive $1299
1.4 Ghz Superdrive $1499

The first five items I think can actually happen if not almost definitly will happen (Dual 3.0 Ghz G5). The last item is pure wish.

 

[chacha75]

See, us girls don't like to log around big ugly backpacks... it would be great to have a little thing you could actually have on you all the time, but that's still a reasonably featured notebook. I would buy a 3.6 lb 10" iBook for $ 699 or 799 right away... the reason I still don't have an iBook or PB is that they're still too big for me. I'd like something tiny, and I don't think I'm the only one.

Yes, there is definately a market for this! I am actually living in Japan and see a LOT of these 10" subnotebooks being used. A lot have a very fine resolution to boot (1024x786 is standard).

Sounds like someone's never been to high school or college, where you often have to carry around 20+ pounds of books in your backpack.

Yes, but I prefer not to do it any more now that I'm out of school...it may not be backbreaking to carry around only an iBook but I do happen to have other things with me and anything I can do to lighten the load would help...

ChaCha...

 

[Phil Of Mac]

Originally posted by macMaestro
Here's my guesses for what Apple's lineup will look like come June 2004... Or more like what I hope Apple's lineup will look like.

You're not as optimistic as I would be

My estimate is posted below due to a dumb mistake that I made.

 

[Phil Of Mac]

Sorry. I meant to hit edit but I hit quote instead.

eMac
G4 Processor (Motorola)
1.33 GHz (Combo): $599
1.42 GHz (SuperDrive): $699
Low-cost educational system. Due to unreliable chip production, all G4's will be reserved for this line only, ensuring a somewhat reliable supply. Product line marked for cancellation in near future as the G5 improves in price-performance.

iBook
G5 Processor
10":
1.2 GHz Combo: $799
1.4 GHz SuperDrive: $899
12":
1.4 GHz Combo: $899
1.6 GHz SuperDrive: $999
14":
1.4 GHz Combo: $1099
1.6 GHz SuperDrive: $1199
Popular educational system. Also a popular personal system. Like the original iBook, which coexisted with Lombard and Pismo, this iBook shares the same processor type with the PowerBook. Widescreen. New enclosure.

iMac
G5 Processor
SuperDrive
17"
3 GHz
$1299
Reduced to a single product at a single attractive price point, incidentally that of the original Bondi Blue iMac. 17" screen only--15" screens are marked for extinction. Includes the same optical audio out that the G5 has today--ideal system for home entertainment. Evolved enclosure (compare the Kihei iMacs to the original Bondi iMacs and you'll see what I mean)

PowerBook G5
SuperDrive Standard
12"
1.8 GHz
$1599
2.0 GHz
$1799
15"
2.0 GHz
$1999
2.5 GHz
$2199
17"
2.5 GHz
$2599
More aggressive price cuts. Performance same across line, except for the 12" due to heat problems. All screens are widescreen. New enclosure.

Power Mac G5
Dual 2.5 GHz: $1599
Dual 3.0 GHz: $1999
Dual 3.33 GHz: $2199
There is no single processor. Price drops to $1599 for a Dual 2 GHz, the same entry-level price as the Blue and White G3. The 3.33 GHz is IBM overachieving. IBM promised a 1.8 GHz 970 and we got 2 GHz. If they promised Apple 3.0 GHz, there's a good chance they'll overshoot that one too. Same enclosure, possibly slightly modified.

Notes:
G5 Processors will be at either 90 nm or 60 nm, allowing their use in notebooks.

Price for the G5 processor will be low because IBM can mass-produce them cheaply at Fishkill.

All products except the eMac will use a G5 version of the Universal Motherboard Architecture. R&D costs for this UMA will be spread across the entire product line.

The eMac will be Apple's only product without a widescreen display. It will be the odd one out. Apple will use it to make a full frontal assault on the educational market to take it back.

The G6 will be released at Macworld Expo San Francisco in the year 2005.

 

[Sun Baked]

I wonder if the iBook will stick with the current Pangea's SDR chipset or opt to switch to the Intrepid's DDR chipset...

 

[mvc]

Re: more 14 at 1024

Originally posted by mkaake
okay, i haven't even left hp's website yet...

hp ze4401
hp ze4501
hp ze 4420
hp ze4502
hp ze4430
hp ze4402
hp ze5501

etc etc etc.

oh, and fwiw, a bunch of those are 15 inchers.

guess you can take off that funny hat, huh?

 

[mvc]

Originally posted by chacha75
Yes, there is definately a market for this! I am actually living in Japan and see a LOT of these 10" subnotebooks being used. A lot have a very fine resolution to boot (1024x786 is standard).

Now thats a machine I would like Apple to make.

 

[iShater]

Originally posted by Tequila Grandma
I think the #1 thing the iBooks really need right now is to
GO BACK TO THE OLD CASE!

My 600mhz iBook, with the translucent plastic, looks spectacular. It's truly one of the most attracive portable computers ever made. My mother's new iBook, however, looks like cheap crap in comparison.

Amen to that!

I bought my first Mac late May, and it was the last generation iBook. The last one that had the ice look. I have to admit that I didn't really look at the "new" enclosure that closely until very lately and I hate it. I do think that this cheaper plastic is probably more durable, which makes it a good choice for students. However, for people like me who take good care of their systems, I couldn't think of a better looking enclosure!! (ok, I love the TiPB too)

 

[murak]

Re: Re: And they´re of! 6 more month of lovley rumors!

Originally posted by Rincewind42
If there is a version of the G3 with altivec planned, IBM hasn't said anything publically about it. Personally, I think it is fiction. But altivec doesn't necessarily cause more power draw. If you look at the 970, the Altivec unit is a drop in the bucket compared to most of the other logic on the chip.

Yes, I was wrong, after looking it up it was just a rumor. But still, it doesn´t sound right to compare a G3 and a G5 when it comes to power draw. I don´t have the facts but I picture that Altivec makes more difference (when it comes down to total power draw) on G3 than on G5. Right, no?

Originally posted by Rincewind42

Misinformation. Every program on the system makes use of the Altivec unit, in one way or the other, although only a few do so directly. Generally, only those programs that are designed for speed in the first place tend to use Altivec to an extent that it matters, but one of those programs is your operating system =).

Again, I am wrong. Yes, OSX does use Altivec. BUT does it make a big difference? Again I picture that the mojor factors that make OSX faster is RAM, Cache and a good 3D card. Right, no?

Originally posted by Rincewind42

Hmm... I'm not certain how I should feel about that . I'll just say thanks for the applause.

You will have to exuse my bad english, I thought that it was a nice thing to say. Sorry