Their Facebook page is now claiming that their original comments that indicated they would honor the originally advertised policies was a "misunderstanding" on their part. What a mess!
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AT&T Considering Modifications to Deadline for iPad Unlimited 3G Service Activations
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Their Facebook page is now claiming that their original comments that indicated they would honor the originally advertised policies was a "misunderstanding" on their part. What a mess!
Claim all you want but these two pharses do not exactly the same in connotation.
"start and stop"
versus
"stop and start "
They are not precisely interchangeable. It is almost as if folks want to muddle the real issues in question. What happens in the interval between starting and stopping is covered by the contract and the statements made by AT&T. All the hand waving starts when start talking about stopping and then starting a subsequent plan ( the interval between plans not within their rolling window. ). If you don't ask a question about the latter, you are asking a question that will get a clear answer over what all th fuss is being made over.
Right... because if the question had been asked precisely it couldn't being mixed up. sheesh. I am not going be very surprised when it turns out that the question had different phrasing and got supposedly different answers.
Talk about misleading. This is still on the Apple site.
http://www.apple.com/ipad/3g/
No-contract 3G service.
AT&T 3G Data Plans for iPad
Data per month Price per month
250MB $14.99
Unlimited $29.99 One month is based on 30 consecutive days, and starts at the date and time of your purchase.
In the United States, 3G service is available through a breakthrough deal with AT&T. You choose the amount of data per month you want to buy 250MB or unlimited. If you choose the 250MB plan, youll receive onscreen messages as you get close to your monthly data limit so you can decide whether to turn off 3G or upgrade to the unlimited plan. Best of all, theres no long-term contract. So if you have a business trip or vacation approaching, just sign up for the month youll be traveling and cancel when you get back. You dont need to visit a store to get 3G service. You can sign up, check your data usage, manage your account, or cancel your service all from your iPad.
http://www.apple.com/ipad/3g/
No-contract 3G service.
AT&T 3G Data Plans for iPad
Data per month Price per month
250MB $14.99
Unlimited $29.99 One month is based on 30 consecutive days, and starts at the date and time of your purchase.
In the United States, 3G service is available through a breakthrough deal with AT&T. You choose the amount of data per month you want to buy 250MB or unlimited. If you choose the 250MB plan, youll receive onscreen messages as you get close to your monthly data limit so you can decide whether to turn off 3G or upgrade to the unlimited plan. Best of all, theres no long-term contract. So if you have a business trip or vacation approaching, just sign up for the month youll be traveling and cancel when you get back. You dont need to visit a store to get 3G service. You can sign up, check your data usage, manage your account, or cancel your service all from your iPad.
I think this whole thing will back fire on AT&T.
Just think if everyone starts using 2 Gigs every month.
I normally switch to WiFi at home, guess what its 3G for now on.
No more Free ride on my ISP AT&T I will start using my data that you so gladly charge me for.
Thanks for pointing out that I wasn't using enough
Just think if everyone starts using 2 Gigs every month.
I normally switch to WiFi at home, guess what its 3G for now on.
No more Free ride on my ISP AT&T I will start using my data that you so gladly charge me for.
Thanks for pointing out that I wasn't using enough
Sure. Dude, even AT&T now admits that the questions were the same, and they got it wrong.
I must be an idiot. I can't figure out how to PM you using the forum tools. Or did you want us to contact you via your website?
What is misleading about that? That is the current pricing?
Is every company that advertises their current pricing being misleading?
Hi, Dave Dave. I tried to PM you but it didn't work - you might not have enough posts. Go ahead and email me via the address on the website. Thanks!
what are you talking about? They did bring in the plans on top of the grandfathered plan.
I did have some sympathy for people who bought 3g ipads, but the way so many of you are petulantly crying about this and being absurdly unreasonable I have little to no sympathy left.
If someone bought an iPad 3G 11 months from now and in 12 months AT&T raised the price you would have the EXACT same circumstance. Everyone had to know the price and terms of the contract were subject to change. Nobody was guaranteed any price, nor any amount of bandwidth to be able to turn on and off at will. That is absurd. It sucks it happened so soon, but it would have happened to lots of people down the road, or at any other time they introduce new plans...
They offer a contract free service where people can start and stop the service in 30 day periods as they see fit. Nowehre was anyone promised to be able to pay $30 for unlimited data for that period. That is an absurd assumption, and there is zero precedent in business for people to have expected that given the plan and the way it was offered. Not to mention them very kindly grandfathering people in for the $30 unlimited rate, and people are just being outrageous.
So how am I supposed to have sympathy or feel bad for someone who acts like they are better than everyone else and deserve special treatment, because that is what people who are going over the top with this are acting like.
Again, if someone bought an iPAD 3G next year, and then the raised the prices, they would be in the EXACT same circumstance as people are in now. Nothing would be different. I can't believe people think AT&T NEVER has the right to change the rate or level of their service forever. That is absurd, especially considering that it is a month-to-month service with no contract. So why are people who bought an iPad NOW more special, more important or more deserving, than someone who buys one two months from now, 6 months from now or two years from now? Why are any of you more important?
If someone is going to tell me they don't think they are more important, then please tell me if you think given the terms of the agreement AT&T ever has the right to change the pricing of the 3G service.
It IS MISLEADING. Unless you can start and stop for two more days. Come on show an ounce of common sense. This is bait and switch.
You guys are claiming the stats AT&T provide are invalid, yet you have absolutely no information or even reasonable anecdotal data (ie I have seen lots of people whose average usage is under 200 megs and 2 gigs posting in various places).
You can't support that their data is not true, you are just making stuff up... but it is okay for you to just make stuff up, and claim the other guy is lying because it suits your purpose?
The Magical Unicorn 3G
I kinda don't care. I brought the wifi version day one planning to get the 3G version once the hype died down. That's never going to happen now, I'm glad they did it, saved me a 1000 bucks. The ipad 3G is now the unicorn to me because I'll probably never see one. Apple and AT&T make decisions based on greed then back pedal every time. AT&T upping the cancelation fees was a preemptive action because they knew we'd quit and buy the htc evo 4G. What makes me happy is when I turn on mywi on my jail broken iPhone and tether my iPad to it. I'm inflicting major butt hurt on AT&T against their will. I'm gonna keep on doing it too. Am I buying the new iPhone? No, I don't care about that new iPhone. Apple you lost me. I don't care about you anymore. Apple you lost the essence of what you were and reduced yourselves to the everybody brand. You are no longer special to me and I hate Steve Jobs. What an angry sick old soul firing off angry responses to apple's fan base. Apple you blew it with me and I'm not the only one. AT&T y'all can get the balls too. Android is selling 200,000 units a week and I'm happy about that. I know it gives Steve Jobs a tummy ache at night.
Written on my iPad.
Think Badly.
I kinda don't care. I brought the wifi version day one planning to get the 3G version once the hype died down. That's never going to happen now, I'm glad they did it, saved me a 1000 bucks. The ipad 3G is now the unicorn to me because I'll probably never see one. Apple and AT&T make decisions based on greed then back pedal every time. AT&T upping the cancelation fees was a preemptive action because they knew we'd quit and buy the htc evo 4G. What makes me happy is when I turn on mywi on my jail broken iPhone and tether my iPad to it. I'm inflicting major butt hurt on AT&T against their will. I'm gonna keep on doing it too. Am I buying the new iPhone? No, I don't care about that new iPhone. Apple you lost me. I don't care about you anymore. Apple you lost the essence of what you were and reduced yourselves to the everybody brand. You are no longer special to me and I hate Steve Jobs. What an angry sick old soul firing off angry responses to apple's fan base. Apple you blew it with me and I'm not the only one. AT&T y'all can get the balls too. Android is selling 200,000 units a week and I'm happy about that. I know it gives Steve Jobs a tummy ache at night.
Written on my iPad.
Think Badly.
Apple you lost the essence of what you were and reduced yourselves to the everybody brand. You are no longer special to me and I hate Steve Jobs. What an angry sick old soul firing off angry responses to apple's fan base. Apple you blew it with me and I'm not the only one. AT&T y'all can get the balls too. Android is selling 200,000 units a week and I'm happy about that. I know it gives Steve Jobs a tummy ache at night.
Written on my iPad.
I'm willing to let Apple slide until Monday. I just cannot believe SJ would screw over his customer base like that. Apple is all about the customer base, shiny toys, and profits.
If he ignores the issue, it's a serious PR hit for Apple, but if he claims he was blindsided, I would not doubt it a bit. Especially if there's some announcement like loss of exclusivity for AT&T, I would think this week's actions would have a really good explanation.
For some reason Verizon is starting to not look half bad. On my Android phone I have none of the Verizon sucker apps. I've had Skype VOIP working for a month or 2 now. No service problems that I can complain of. Network is nice and plentiful here in northern California.
I decided to go with the Wifi IPad off the start simply because I am highly impatient. Now I am glad I haven't gone out to try and get a 3G Ipad.
I will be interested to hear what Mr. jobs will say on this situation, or if he even will. Still haven't decided if I feel SJ knew this change was coming. Seems at the time he didn't. The fact that the rate change starts the day of WWDC interests me. Maybe we are in for some big surprises on Monday. My impatient being cannot wait.
I decided to go with the Wifi IPad off the start simply because I am highly impatient. Now I am glad I haven't gone out to try and get a 3G Ipad.
I will be interested to hear what Mr. jobs will say on this situation, or if he even will. Still haven't decided if I feel SJ knew this change was coming. Seems at the time he didn't. The fact that the rate change starts the day of WWDC interests me. Maybe we are in for some big surprises on Monday. My impatient being cannot wait.
You have produced page after page of astoundingly unconvincing text, while making it clear that you have little understanding of contract law or FTC rules and regulations. Cut your losses and just stop; you're making yourself look foolish as you argue with people who fully understand this situation, including at least on attorney.
Apple's advertisements touted a "breakthrough deal" that they entered into with AT&T to provide a limited $15 tier and an unlimited $30 tier. Those ads said that the iPad purchasers could freely change between those two specific tiers at those specific prices, or opt to go without 3G service for some period of time. This was one of the major inducements to buy the iPad. There was nothing stating that "this is a limited time offer." AT&T has a right to raise prices or change levels of service and, if Apple failed, in negotiating their "breakthrough deal," to lock in the terms and rates of the AT&T service for existing customers, then it's Apple's responsibility to make those customers whole.
The law takes the 'reasonable man' view in cases like this: What would a reasonable man expect having read the Apple advertisements? The reasonable men, including me, expected that Apple had secured that pricing and service level (in their "breakthrough deal") for the iPad and that, were there some future degradation of the terms, that those of us with earlier iPads would be grandfathered in under the old terms (free to switch between plans, and cancel service, with the ability to restart the $30 unlimited service at any time. I did believe that it was "in perpetuity" and that future changes were likely to result in lower prices and/or fewer restrictions. Because that's been the history of the broadband Internet sector. I have been paying a grandfathered rate for my unlimited business Internet broadband service and have watched speeds go up by an order of magnitude during that time. Yes, they raised speeds, did not impose any service caps, and did not change the price to existing customers.
From an ftc.gov publication:
The Federal Trade Commission Act allows the FTC to act in the interest of all consumers to prevent deceptive and unfair acts or practices. In interpreting Section 5 of the Act, the Commission has determined that a representation, omission or practice is deceptive if it is likely to:
● mislead consumers and
● affect consumers' behavior or decisions about the product or service.
● mislead consumers and
● affect consumers' behavior or decisions about the product or service.
Were many consumers mislead by Apple's ads? Yes.
Did it affect their decisions about whether to purchase the iPad? Yes.
I don't know why you are finding this so hard to grasp.
And lest you try to paint those who disagree with you as lacking experience, savvy, or expertise, consider the fact that major newspapers, magazines, and commercial tech bloggers have published scathing articles which closely parallel what most of us have written here.
A basic knowledge of how an iPad is used vs. how a smartphone is used shows that their data is cooked by combining the two types of devices into one statistic.
So do the user percentages, where iPad users make up a fraction of a percent of AT&T 3G users. WTF does that 98% figure mean to us when we make up less than 1% of AT&T's 3G user base? What percentage of iPad users were using at a rate faster than 2GB/month? I don't care what some guy with a Blackberry uses.
It's like a health insurance company capping insulin reimbursements at $20/year, claiming that 98% of their customers use less than that, and that the ones who use more are "insulin hogs."
If I told you that 98% of Toyota drivers worldwide were secretly pedophiles, it would be perfectly reasonable for you to call bull**** -- even if you lacked the statistics to disprove my claim.
I think this whole thing will back fire on AT&T.
Just think if everyone starts using 2 Gigs every month.
I normally switch to WiFi at home, guess what its 3G for now on.
No more Free ride on my ISP AT&T I will start using my data that you so gladly charge me for.
Thanks for pointing out that I wasn't using enough
Sounds like a good idea but I'm sure your home wifi is quite a bit faster than 3g so why would you use 3g.
No. No. No.
What part of the forced to keep your grandfathered plan rolling over (keep paying monthly or loose it forever) do you not get? Yes you can have the 30 unlimited plan as long as you do not let it lapse.
It was sold/advertised(still is on
Website) and paraded to the people that their was a choice monthly. Go on vacation, sign up for unlimited. Come home, cancel- going on a business trip re-sign up; stream to your hearts content. Not any longer. You MUST pay 30 a month in order to keep your grandfathered plan forever.
It's bait and switch, you cannot deny it- but you obviously do not want to admit it.
Finally, your what if statements do not hold water in this argument. There were 2 plans 30 days ago, today the two plans have been pulled-plain and simple. They duped the early adopters period.
As far as AT&Ts data numbers I cannot quote or prove, I am not speaking for them, nor for the people- I am just stating that I do not believe that those numbers are the truth; they are spun to make people perceive they are cheaper and better for iPad users.
Simply put; this is wrong in every way.
Fmaxwell above did a great job explaining this even better than I.
Then why would AT&T get rid of the unlimited if most people were overpaying for data they really weren't using? Everyone would go to the $15 a month because they really didn't use that much data and overpaid for unlimited. In other words, if you had all you can eat restaurant for $30 versus a normal meal of $15 a person the restaurant would lose money if in fact the customers were not fat pig/hogs but skinny light eaters who only ate salad. So you would be stupid to eliminate the all you can eat plan. However, if your customers were mostly pig/hogs then you might cancel the all you can eat plan. So back to your assumption: if most users were as you say don't use much data "as you think" and are not pig/hogs then it wouldn't make sense that A&T would cancel the unlimted for $30 and replace it with $15 if in fact most of these users who "don't use as much data as you think" would generate $15 less a month and not really reduce their data consumption which is already low (as you imply). I think most users underestimate how much they download.
For those who are tired of subsidizing pig/hogs why should we continue subsidizing those who have unlimited plans? This isn't welfare. If you say because we help AT&T then AT&T would continue with the status-quo and continue with the the "unlimited" plan. For us who are tired of subsidizing pig/hogs this change of plan news is neutural if not good news.
Its the principle of the whole thing.
Not allowing AT&T to use my WiFi network and to use more of what I pay for.
They started this.
Once a better option is available through another provider I will be gone.
This will happen unless AT&T backs off from its current plan.
Doesn't AT&T calculate the bytes by combining upload and download to get the total? Upload seems pretty slim on the iPad, but it roughly 8-10% for general surfing and such.
Yes I'd accept a public trashing from Apple That might be fun. Won't change anything about this situation but hopefully it will generate some bad blood between those 2 companies.
To all the people gaging the needs of other people based on their own usage patterns I'd like to say to you ****! please. Nobody cares that you need less than 2 gigs of bandwidth a month. 2 gigs for internet access is approaching the model they use to charge us for text and picture messaging. And those are some of the most expensive bytes in the world the way it's priced. We can't let these companies fall back to this "less is more" mentality. The logic they applied to their reasoning fails. "Most people don't need more than 2 gigs..." Ok, that's most people but I personally would like some headroom in my data plan, not a hard cut off at 2 gigs.
I looked up my usage and was surprised to see my May usage numbers. The only thing I did in May was tether to my macbook pro for 4 days because the office connectivity was down. Granted, I did not download any video or music, only web-pages and a occasional remote desktop connection to my home machines to manage them. So, with that being said 2gigs is NOT the future of mobile data. I plan to write Mr Jobs today to voice my displeasure of this bamboozle. instead of wasting time here arguing with people that obviously either work for AT&T or Apple of both I'm gonna send my thoughts to the man himself. Hopefully, Apple legal doesn't send me a cease and desist letter.
AT&T,
Pimpin' Yur Digital Bytes...
If 2% of the people are using 50% of the bandwidth, it matters to everyone else what their usage patterns are. I'm happy that AT&T is giving me the option of not subsidizing them.
There's *not* a hard cut off. If you use over 2 gigs, you pay an extra $10 per gig. That seems pretty reasonable.
I looked up my usage and was surprised to see my May usage numbers. The only thing I did in May was tether to my macbook pro for 4 days because the office connectivity was down. Granted, I did not download any video or music, only web-pages and a occasional remote desktop connection to my home machines to manage them. So, with that being said 2gigs is NOT the future of mobile data. I plan to write Mr Jobs today to voice my displeasure of this bamboozle. instead of wasting time here arguing with people that obviously either work for AT&T or Apple of both I'm gonna send my thoughts to the man himself. Hopefully, Apple legal doesn't send me a cease and desist letter.
AT&T,
Pimpin' Yur Digital Bytes...
1. The new plan will save you money. Even if you had used 2.5 gigs in one month, it would have saved you money.
2. Not everyone who disagrees with you works for Apple or AT&T. Some people are actually financially literate and are able to realize that this saves money for the vast majority of people. Here, read David Pogue's article (unless you believe that he is a secret AT&T employee): http://www.nytimes.com/2010/06/03/technology/personaltech/03pogue-email.html?src=me&ref=technology
A couple of observations
IMHO, the new data plans and the canceling of the old unlimited tier are bait and switch. Most iPad buyers expected that they could switch among several data tiers, one of which was unlimited.
The iPad is a media consumption device. The 2GB limit is, according to ATT, about 200 minutes of video. That's two movies. Per month. It kills the reason for iPad to view movies. Most hotels charge about $10/day for WiFi, and it's about $10/gig over the 2gig limit. About the same to watch a movie on vacation or on the road. About the same price as going to a theater, but without the sticky floor ;-)
Besides whatever lawyers dream up to force the issue (not a lawyer, so don't know if they have a case, other than the common sense point I made above), this development cries out for Apple to allow external data sources (DVD / BluRay player, USB memory devices) to augment the internal storage on a iPad. So you could buy movies on iTunes and keep them on external devices when iPad memory was full; or bring DVDs and a small player and use iPad as the display device. Right now, iPad does neither.
I don't know the data size for various print media subscriptions: books, magazines, etc., but to be viable, at least the mags will need pictures, audio, and video in a multi-media presentation. For example, read the WSJ on iPad, but have stories augmented with audio interviews, video clips (since Fox owns them), etc. I can easily imagine daily use of those features blowing through the 2gig limit while out of WiFi connectivity.
The future of the internet is mobile computing and connectivity. The lack of an unlimited plan for 3G (and others will follow, if this sticks, just like airline first checked bag fees) limits the growth of this industry. The future is all the data and media ever created available all the time, everywhere for a reasonable fee. $10/gig is not reasonable.
IMHO, the new data plans and the canceling of the old unlimited tier are bait and switch. Most iPad buyers expected that they could switch among several data tiers, one of which was unlimited.
The iPad is a media consumption device. The 2GB limit is, according to ATT, about 200 minutes of video. That's two movies. Per month. It kills the reason for iPad to view movies. Most hotels charge about $10/day for WiFi, and it's about $10/gig over the 2gig limit. About the same to watch a movie on vacation or on the road. About the same price as going to a theater, but without the sticky floor ;-)
Besides whatever lawyers dream up to force the issue (not a lawyer, so don't know if they have a case, other than the common sense point I made above), this development cries out for Apple to allow external data sources (DVD / BluRay player, USB memory devices) to augment the internal storage on a iPad. So you could buy movies on iTunes and keep them on external devices when iPad memory was full; or bring DVDs and a small player and use iPad as the display device. Right now, iPad does neither.
I don't know the data size for various print media subscriptions: books, magazines, etc., but to be viable, at least the mags will need pictures, audio, and video in a multi-media presentation. For example, read the WSJ on iPad, but have stories augmented with audio interviews, video clips (since Fox owns them), etc. I can easily imagine daily use of those features blowing through the 2gig limit while out of WiFi connectivity.
The future of the internet is mobile computing and connectivity. The lack of an unlimited plan for 3G (and others will follow, if this sticks, just like airline first checked bag fees) limits the growth of this industry. The future is all the data and media ever created available all the time, everywhere for a reasonable fee. $10/gig is not reasonable.