AT&T Continuing to Move Forward on Plans for 4G Cellular Network

[kdarling]

So wait a minute: were the "exclusivity ending in 2010" rumors that started springing up recently actually any more reliably-sourced than the "5-year contract" sources that were all over the place in early 2007?

Once internet myths get started, they're hard to stop. The original 5-year story started with a joke by a Verizon executive about people getting "stuck on ATT" for a long time.

In 2008, ATT announced that the original one-year Apple contract had ended and they had signed another. At that time, it was widely assumed that the new contract was for two years, because it would take almost that long for ATT to recoup iPhone subsidies from its customers.

So two years made sense. In addition, ATT's CEO began talking a month or two ago about how ATT would be fine without Apple exclusivity. This reinforced the two year idea. So we still don't know if it ends in summer 2010, or if ATT and Apple re-upped because of the iPad. Guess we'll find out this year.

I'm not familiar with exactly how this is handled, so . . . will this improve voice calls? Yesterday I had a 90% FAILURE rate, from home and work, where normally things run fine. Ridiculous.

If enough people were moved to LTE for data, it could help with the dropped voice call rate. (Separation of voice and data is why Verizon doesn't have dropped voice calls due to data overload.)

Bell and Telus now have the iPhone on that new network and they are way ahead of Verizon for going to LTE because that new network can be upgraded to LTE whereas a CDMA network cannot.

Verizon uses the same LTE suppliers, and has installed similar equipment that's upgradeable to LTE radios. You still seem stuck on the misconception that LTE is somehow tied to UMTS. UMTS-3G is not anywhere similar to UMTS-LTE.

o yah cause version has 4g. o wait they dont

Soon. Verizon says that by the end of this year they plan to open up LTE to 25-30 U.S. markets comprising over 100 million people.

 

[yg17]

Holy crap, why does it take so long for ATT to roll out 3G all over America? I mean Verizon did it in a shorter time frame.. Most people don't have the luxury to live in one of the huge cities where they first roll out new network technologies.

Because for Verizon to "upgrade" to 3G, all they had to do was pay somebody sitting in an office to push out a software update to their towers to make them 3G and light up the EvDO indicator on phones. It doesn't mean they actually went out to each tower and upgraded the backhaul so you can see 3G speeds. That's why Verizon's map is such a crock of BS. There's more to 3G network coverage than where your phone will display EvDO instead of 1xRTT. AT&T has to physically work at each tower they upgrade to 3G which is why it's slower.

What I'm seeing here is a complete lack of a fall back plan. If you are traveling with an iPhone 3GS today it will go form 3G to Edge. But with this plan in place you might be on 4G in some areas and drop all the way back down to Edge since 3G was never properly deployed.

You really need good 3G coverage before you even consider deploying 4G.

And who's saying that AT&T won't continue upgrading and expanding their 3G network?

Soon. Verizon says that by the end of this year they plan to open up LTE to 25-30 U.S. markets comprising over 100 million people.

I'll believe it when I see it.

 

[MacNut]

Isn't the back-haul to shore up the 3G and also plant the foundation for 4G. They are doing it all at once so the backbone is ready.

 

[yg17]

Isn't the back-haul to shore up the 3G and also plant the foundation for 4G. They are doing it all at once so the backbone is ready.

Yeah, basically killing two birds with one stone.

And 4G does not mean the end of 3G expansion. I think the end goal (and this may take several years) is to build out 3G so it covers their entire 2G footprint and eventually shut off the 2G network once everyone has a 3G phone, so by the time 5G starts coming out, they'll have plenty of spectrum from their former 2G network. And then 3G will be on it's way out by the time 6G comes around, etc.

Spectrum is finite, and no carrier has enough to operate several different generations of networks; I don't think AT&T or any carrier would want to be operating more than 3 different networks at the same time. TDMA was phased out, eventually GSM is going to get phased out.

 

[Rodimus Prime]

No, it's too late for that. What you should be hoping for is that the Verizon execs pull their heads out of their arses and implement a 3G+ network that is upgradable to LTE like what Telus/Bell did in Canada when they started to transition away from CDMA this past November. Bell and Telus now have the iPhone on that new network and they are way ahead of Verizon for going to LTE because that new network can be upgraded to LTE whereas a CDMA network cannot.


Stop it with the Verizon love fest. Verizon is run by idiots who only think in the short term (CDMA network profit).

@iRATs: As soon as Verizon changes their executive for someone with some brains who realize that CDMA is a dead end and that people are not willing to wait for LTE.

you really need to do some reading. Verizon paid a lot less and was a lot faster with their 3G roll out than AT&T because they already had a CDMA network in place.

Verizon Ev-DO network as a lot more in common with GSM W-CDMA (3G) than GSM W-CDMA has with Edge.
3G is a type of CDMA network which also explainy way Verizon 3G network is larger and rolled out faster.

Stupid Verizon basher who know nothing about the different types of wireless signals need to shut up and go look it up.
GSM to go from 2G to 3G had to switch from TDMA to type CDMA (W-CDMA).

 

[butterfly0fdoom]

you really need to do some reading. Verizon paid a lot less and was a lot faster with their 3G roll out than AT&T because they already had a CDMA network in place.

Verizon Ev-DO network as a lot more in common with GSM W-CDMA (3G) than GSM W-CDMA has with Edge.
3G is a type of CDMA network which also explainy way Verizon 3G network is larger and rolled out faster.

Stupid Verizon basher who know nothing about the different types of wireless signals need to shut up and go look it up.
GSM to go from 2G to 3G had to switch from TDMA to type CDMA (W-CDMA).

No. Wrong. EV-DO is the 3G for CDMA2000 which is the 2G for CDMA. The GSM upgrade path was more convoluted, with them adopting WCDMA (aka UTMS/HSPA) as the 3G technology. EV-DO was easier to upgrade as it was still CDMA-based, whereas W-CDMA isn't TDMA-based. W-CDMA and CDMA aren't cross-compatible (AT&T users being able to talk and surf at the same time while Verizon users not being able to being a case in point).

 

[Rodimus Prime]

No. Wrong. EV-DO is the 3G for CDMA2000 which is the 2G for CDMA. The GSM upgrade path was more convoluted, with them adopting WCDMA (aka UTMS/HSPA) as the 3G technology. EV-DO was easier to upgrade as it was still CDMA-based, whereas W-CDMA isn't TDMA-based. W-CDMA and CDMA aren't cross-compatible (AT&T users being able to talk and surf at the same time while Verizon users not being able to being a case in point).

Never said they were cross compatible. Just the upgrade from the 2G CDMA to 3G CDMA was a lot easier for verizon because they already had the base technology in place.

GSM carriers to go from 2G to 3G was a lot harder because they did not have the base technology in place yet. They had to get all the CDMA stuff in place.

Also you might want to do a little reading. Verizon at one time was planning on to continue to upgrade there EVDO network to handle the duel Voice and data but scrape those plans to switch over to LTE. Verizon I believe choose a better technology earlier on because it lasted them a hell of a lot longer from when they paid to put it in place to when they needed to completely change it. GSM carriers had a much shorter life on it short stay with a type of CDMA.

 

[bks691]

Verizons rollout date is way later than AT&T, verizon will be rolled out MAYBE by 2014. It's a major overhaul for verizon, and for AT&T it a natural progression. AT&T is already basicly set up for LTE and will be able to accomplish it 10 times faster than verizon.

 

[theLimit]

What the hell? LTE is NOT 4G! It is just an upgrade to 3G speed and capacity. Some marketers have started throwing around the 4G term to get uninformed consumers foaming at the mouth. LTE is an evolution of the 3G network architecture that started last year and will lead up to true 4G around (hopefully) 2014.

 

[bergmef]

Verizons rollout date is way later than AT&T, verizon will be rolled out MAYBE by 2014. It's a major overhaul for verizon, and for AT&T it a natural progression. AT&T is already basicly set up for LTE and will be able to accomplish it 10 times faster than verizon.

Huh? Natural progression? Are you saying they are replacing 3G with LTE? Like a software upgrade? I don't really think so. I say lets see ATT do their trial city this year and see if they keep their schedule. On the other side, verizon says 20-30 cities this year for LTE. Lets see if they keep their schedule. I want to hold both companies feet to the fire, force them to compete.

 

[Rocketman]

Wanna make a bet?

I bet AT&T's 3G exclusivity ends in June 2010.

Thereafter and for a year or two after release it will have an Apple exclusive on LTE. Beyond that it will depend on carrier payments AT&T makes versus others like Verizon.

Apple dances with the one they brung.

Rocketman

Haven't you EVER sen a Pixar short?

 

[aristotle]

Why is it creaky? If you said 'different technology cdma' then maybe I could understand. Not sure what you mean by creaky. Also not sure, but isn't evdo verizon's version of 3G ... and a cdma technology?

The CDMA standard deployed in North America (Canada and US) does not support Voice and data at the same time and it is slower than the 7.2 Mbps 3G that AT&T is rolling out let alone the 21Mbps 3G available in Canada.

That is what I mean by creaky. Its speed and capability is behind even AT&T's slow implementation of 3G.

 

[aristotle]

Huh? Natural progression? Are you saying they are replacing 3G with LTE? Like a software upgrade? I don't really think so. I say lets see ATT do their trial city this year and see if they keep their schedule. On the other side, verizon says 20-30 cities this year for LTE. Lets see if they keep their schedule. I want to hold both companies feet to the fire, force them to compete.

LTE is an upgrade to UMTS (3G) which means that they can keep the same towers and transmitters while swapping out a few boards and installing new software. CDMA is a completely different technology.


@Rodimus Prime: Do us all a favour and go over to Wikipedia and read up on UMTS, WCDMA, LTE and CDMA. You seem to be confused. UMTS uses WCDMA as an air interface but the core network is compatible with GSM. LTE is an upgrade to UMTS, not CDMA.

 

[aristotle]

What the hell? LTE is NOT 4G! It is just an upgrade to 3G speed and capacity. Some marketers have started throwing around the 4G term to get uninformed consumers foaming at the mouth. LTE is an evolution of the 3G network architecture that started last year and will lead up to true 4G around (hopefully) 2014.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/3GPP_Long_Term_Evolution


It is the fourth generation of the evolution path of GSM. Do you work at Sprint by any chance? Sprint calls Wimax 4G but it is not even an official 3GPP standard for cell networks. Companies like Bell in Canada and Clearwire in the US are selling Wimax wireless modems as an alternative to wired ISPs. It is not being sold as a cellular network technology.

 

[yg17]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/3GPP_Long_Term_Evolution


It is the fourth generation of the evolution path of GSM. Do you work at Sprint by any chance? Sprint calls Wimax 4G but it is not even an official 3GPP standard for cell networks. Companies like Bell in Canada and Clearwire in the US are selling Wimax wireless modems as an alternative to wired ISPs. It is not being sold as a cellular network technology.

I don't even think there are any WiMax phones, just modems. Sprint is probably going to regret going to WiMax.

 

[bergmef]

LTE is an upgrade to UMTS (3G) which means that they can keep the same towers and transmitters while swapping out a few boards and installing new software. CDMA is a completely different technology.


@Rodimus Prime: Do us all a favour and go over to Wikipedia and read up on UMTS, WCDMA, LTE and CDMA. You seem to be confused. UMTS uses WCDMA as an air interface but the core network is compatible with GSM. LTE is an upgrade to UMTS, not CDMA.

So they are turning off 3G (to swap boards) to turn on LTE. You really think that?

Edit: Kinda sucks if you don't have an LTE phone. Same frequencies or will new RF sections and antennas be needed? I thought they were moving to the new purchased frequencies.

 

[twoodcc]

i don't see any other iphone in the us except an at&t one until at least 2011. looking forward to 4G!

 

[yg17]

I thought they were moving to the new purchased frequencies.

They are. The 3G network isn't going anywhere anytime soon.

 

[ToroidalZeus]

@Rodimus Prime: Do us all a favour and go over to Wikipedia and read up on UMTS, WCDMA, LTE and CDMA. You seem to be confused. UMTS uses WCDMA as an air interface but the core network is compatible with GSM. LTE is an upgrade to UMTS, not CDMA.

See that is your problem; You are actually reading wiki, the most unreliable source on the internet.

You seem to be confusing Verizon's flavor of CDMA as the ONLY CDMA and everything else as GSM. CDMA and TDMA are the core technologies all networks are built off. GSM is simply a group that endorses certain standards.

 

[MakX]

Alcatel-Lucent built Telecom's XT network in NZ and it's had two separate major outages since it's launch mid-2009. Something to ponder.

 

[maryannee]

They haven't even completed the rollout of 3G, and now they are moving on to 4G?

Bingo. Still on Edge.

 

[IwillIt]

I wonder if the 4g iphone will have a removable batt and web cam on the front

 

[iphones4evry1]

When the iPhone 3GS was released, they said 7.2Mbps would be tested in late 2009 and ready in 2010. Now, they are saying "late 2010 and ready in 2011."

De ja vu ????????????????????????????????????????????

I say AT&T should roll out 4G in the cities first. You gotta fish where the fish are. Leave the boondocks to Verizon.

I like the way you think.

 

[IBradMac]

3G? 4G?

Let's focus on Edge first, aka basic service.

 

[retroneo]

This is all fine and great, but I want to know how LTE will improve their reliability.

In an LTE deployment, you'll have Gigabit to each base station.

Some 3G sites have as little as 2Mbit backhaul, which easily gets saturated.

(1 base station = 3 sectors x 3 channels x 7.2Mbit = up to 65Mbit)