AT&T has 48 hours to answer iPhone pricing complaints

[marksman]

Hell no! It's all a farce, (AT&T getting their money back) most people are sheep on here. That is a great point kas23!

No its not. It is a stupid point.

AT&T can get the full rate, as can other carriers, for people who don't get subsidized phones so they do. There is zero advantage in giving that money back to the customer. Those are not loyal customers. They want to essentially provide a better deal to people who lock into contracts and so they subsidize the phone price. If you are too dumb to take advantage of that it is on you.

It certainly does not prove that AT&T is not subsidizing the phone price, because they clearly are doing so.

 

[Holty123]

Because you make no sense. There is absolutely no reason why a company would ever do something like this. And a publicly traded company should NEVER do something like this. From a business side, its irrational, and they are after all a BUSINESS. If you have taken any business classes, or understand business at all, you should realize why suggesting that you deserve a lower price for no reason is hogwash.

People come to these forums expecting to find others who will agree with their nonsensical reasoning on too many things. Examples are this post, and posts like "Should I upgrade my *insert computer name* 2.5GHz to the new *insert computer name* 2.61GHz????" Posts like that are STUPID, as they make no sense to anyone who can process logical thought.

The sense of it is there is no harm in trying, if it works fine! if not so what better than doing nothing and all the talk of big company will never do anything like this, well if we all just sat back and put up with it then maybe.
Again we have the right to complain and if you are not prone to complaing then that is also fine.

 

[mkoesel]

Let's suppose they do the same thing with this years model, so a $240 subsidy that's repayed at $10 a month. Now, an iPhone 3G owner who bought their phone on the first day of availability is offered a two year contract extension on the 3G S which kicks in a year after the first purchase for a total of three years. AT&T have now given that customer 2 iPhones so 2 x $240 for a total subsidy of $480. However that customer is only on a three year contract in total so they repay just $360.

Actually, the idea of an extension is that it is added on to the original contract. Therefore, the subisdy would still be covered. You'd simply be adding two more years onto your original two years. So, if you bought a 3G on launch date, and bought a 3G S on launch date, then you'd now have about three more years of commitment to AT&T instead of the roughly one year you'd have had if you did not buy the 3G S.

This seems good at first, but the devil is in the details. If you think about the subsidy as repayment on a loan (which it kind of is) then you'll see the issue. If I let you borrow $240 today and you say you'll pay me back within two years, we are cool. I'll accept the liability. But then if you come back in a year to borrow $240 more, well now we have a problem. Now I'm suddenly out more money. You've only paid me back $120 so far, so I can't loan you another $240 without dipping into some other funds elsewhere (I'll have to sell some stock, say), or perhaps just not commiting those funds to something I otherwise would have (such as investing in more stock, say). However, if you wait the two full years, then I'm cool because I've had a chance to recoop the full $240. And that money I've recouped, plus the additional $240 that you wanted to borrow a year ago has been making me good money (maybe I bought some good stock, say) so I am in a good position to lend you more.

Or something. You get the idea.

 

[marksman]

Interesting article:

http://money.cnn.com/2009/06/10/tec...enge.fortune/index.htm?postversion=2009061009


Couple of points from the article:

"Here's why. When you sign up for AT&T (T, Fortune 500) service and buy an iPhone, Apple (AAPL, Fortune 500) actually gets about $500 -- that's $200 from you, $300 from AT&T. "


"AT&T is willing to pitch in for your iPhone purchase for a couple of really important reasons. One, iPhone users rack up fat monthly bills for Internet service, so AT&T knows it will quickly make its money back. Two, AT&T is the only U.S. carrier with the right to carry the iPhone -- which has helped it to steal those high-value customers from other carriers. "


People act like it takes AT&T the full 2 years to make their money back, but that is not the case. At&t will make their $$$....even if they subsidise only after 12 months.

People act like AT&T has no other expenses associated with providing cell phone and data services for iPhone customers. On top of that people also act like AT&T has no right to make a profit.

AT&T does not say, okay the phone cost us $300.00 and the customer is paying us $80 a month so they have gotten back the cost of the phone in less than 4 months. That is not how it works.

Certainly they pay back the cost in some period of time between 12 and 20 months or so, based on a lot of different factors. I think people need to take some basic business and accounting courses at a community college or something. I have been living and breathing this stuff since I was a child, so fundamental business concepts are second nature to me. I am thinking I am being unfair expecting everyone to have a fundamental understanding of basic business principles.

 

[uberamd]

The sense of it is there is no harm in trying, if it works fine! if not so what better than doing nothing and all the talk of big company will never do anything like this, well if we all just sat back and put up with it then maybe.
Again we have the right to complain and if you are not prone to complaing then that is also fine.

There is a difference between asking for something, and complaining like you have some entitlement to an item. Asking for the upgrade price is different from saying you deserve the upgrade price. Both are stupid, btw. I wouldn't go to Ford after the 2010 models come out and ask for a cheap upgrade from my 2009.

People act like AT&T has no other expenses associated with providing cell phone and data services for iPhone customers. On top of that people also act like AT&T has no right to make a profit.

AT&T does not say, okay the phone cost us $300.00 and the customer is paying us $80 a month so they have gotten back the cost of the phone in less than 4 months. That is not how it works.

Certainly they pay back the cost in some period of time between 12 and 20 months or so, based on a lot of different factors. I think people need to take some basic business and accounting courses at a community college or something. I have been living and breathing this stuff since I was a child, so fundamental business concepts are second nature to me. I am thinking I am being unfair expecting everyone to have a fundamental understanding of basic business principles.

My thoughts exactly. This is the utmost basic accounting/business concepts.

 

[Holty123]

There is a difference between asking for something, and complaining like you have some entitlement to an item. Asking for the upgrade price is different from saying you deserve the upgrade price. Both are stupid, btw. I wouldn't go to Ford after the 2010 models come out and ask for a cheap upgrade from my 2009.


My thoughts exactly. This is the utmost basic accounting/business concepts.

This thread simply started off with a link to a twitter pettion for those people who feel that O2's buy out of contract price too expensive so if you agree then sign if you do not don't sign...i don't think he is intrested in the why's and how's don't see the harm if it makes people feel better and it makes them think that they have done their little bit i don't see the harm in that, we all need a place to vent!

 

[Holty123]

And just to give his thread water
10,023 people to date have signed it so i hope they feel better for it

 

[mkoesel]

Like Slippery-Pete was saying, it DOES NOT take 2 years for AT&T to make back the extra money they paid to Apple for your phone. If you're paying a $100/month cell bill, within 6 months to 1 year they've made that money back plus much more.

True.

Well, that is, as long as you've done the following:

- Buy iPhone
- Immediately turn iPhone off and put in drawer
- Leave phone in drawer for two years with absolutely no use
- Never call AT&T for any reason
- Somehow remove your customer data from AT&T system, so you do not consume any overhead

So yeah, as long as that describes you, then you're correct.

At 12 months, you've already given them $1200 + $199 or $299. I myself have given them $1500 for a phone plus service for the past year. I think they've made some profit

I don't think they have actually. The reason is, they spend countless hours a day fielding needless phone calls from customers who are unhappy about not getting free money.

It's a shame. Maybe if they had less financial liability per customer in this regard, they'd be able to commit more resources to offering more services (such as MMS and tethering, perhaps). Oh well. I guess they will just have to raise prices in the future to cover both that liability and investing in new technology.

AT&T is by no means always fair and always right. But on this particular issue, they are. People would do themselves and everyone else a favor to see that, kindly get it through their head, and move on (on to feeling and acting entitled about something else, I suppose).

 

[yg17]

Actually, the idea of an extension is that it is added on to the original contract. Therefore, the subisdy would still be covered. You'd simply be adding two more years onto your original two years. So, if you bought a 3G on launch date, and bought a 3G S on launch date, then you'd now have about three more years of commitment to AT&T instead of the roughly one year you'd have had if you did not buy the 3G S.

That is not true. If you buy a 3G on launch date, and purchase a 3GS, the contract end date is 2 years from the purchase of a 3GS. An extension does not add 2 additional years onto the end of your existing contract, it for all intents and purposes cancels your existing contract and starts a new one. No one on AT&T will ever have a contract lasting longer than 2 years.

 

[jaw04005]

Meanwhile Verizon disables features on their phones and forces their software on them.

Not to mention, Apple offered the iPhone to them in 2007 and they turned them down.

 

[avigalante]

And just to give his thread water
10,023 people to date have signed it so i hope they feel better for it

10,000 people; that's it!? All this for a measly sum of 10K?

Pathetic.

 

[edk99]

I'm hoping this thread gets deleted in 48 hrs.

 

[mkoesel]

That is not true. If you buy a 3G on launch date, and purchase a 3GS, the contract end date is 2 years from the purchase of a 3GS. An extension does not add 2 additional years onto the end of your existing contract, it for all intents and purposes cancels your existing contract and starts a new one. No one on AT&T will ever have a contract lasting longer than 2 years.

Rght, but the description I gave was for the popularly discussed idea of how AT&T could allow current 3G customers still under contract to purchase a 3GS at the subsidized price. In other words, I was not describing any process that currently exists. Rather I was discussing one that could hypothetically exist. I fully realize that a customer purchasing a 3G S today at the unsubsidized price will only be commiting to a two year contract from purchase date and thereby cancel their existing one.

 

[Holty123]

10,000 people; that's it!? All this for a measly sum of 10K?

Pathetic.

it's 10,000 unhappy people that is the point and again if these people now feel better for signing it then were is the harm in that

 

[edk99]

Rght, but the description I gave was for the popularly discussed idea of how AT&T could allow current 3G customers still under contract to purchase a 3GS at the subsidized price. In other words, I was not describing any process that currently exists. Rather I was discussing one that could hypothetically exist. I fully realize that a customer purchasing a 3G S today at the unsubsidized price will only be commiting to a two year contract from purchase date and thereby cancel their existing one.

and then what happens next year and the year after and the year after? ATT should just raise the price by $100 and offer a 1yr contract.

 

[PsyD4Me]

i can't blame AT&T and Apple for their pricing...

IF you're buying the Iphone you are buying it for the hardware and software ($$$), NOT the network

 

[Goona]

Yes AT&T should change policies which every carrier uses just for iphone customers. I swear Apple has the whiniest customers ever.

 

[uberamd]

it's 10,000 unhappy people that is the point and again if these people now feel better for signing it then were is the harm in that

Because this world has too many people who complain over bogus reasons. If those people instead sat down with a business book and read instead of bitching, they would learn why they are wasting their time, and the time of others. Its 10,000 people who are too dumb to read a contract and think just because they have an iPhone they deserve special treatment. I have an iPhone, and I am glad I don't have the same mind-set as those idiots. They are just making themselves, all 10,000 of them, look dumb.

Yes AT&T should change policies which every carrier uses just for iphone customers. I swear Apple has the whiniest customers ever.

I'm starting to realize that. I thought Apple customers were 'smarter' before I joined these forums 2 weeks ago. Man was I wrong, they are the whiniest bunch of people I have ever heard in my entire life.

 

[avigalante]

it's 10,000 unhappy people that is the point and again if these people now feel better for signing it then were is the harm in that

A quick glance at this thread, blogs, and various internet articles would make it seem as if people were signing a petition for human rights, not a measly cellphone.

How sad the world can be, and pathetic; emphasis on pathetic.

 

[mkoesel]

and then what happens next year and the year after and the year after?

You're asking the wrong guy - I wasn't advocating the idea, just elaborating upon it. Also, there is a bigger reason that the compouond-extension phenomena that the idea won't work. Read my original post.

ATT should just raise the price by $100 and offer a 1yr contract.

That would not really solve anything though because people will still be unhappy paying the higher price.

 

[macaco74]

Plus, Apple's fault is that they only focused on the presentation of revealing the great low price for iPhone to wow people again, they failed to anticipate how that may make some passionate iPhone lovers feel left out and even cheated although it's perfectly fair under contract..

Perhaps this is exactly what Apple intended to do - the presentation seemed anti AT&T demonstrating ATT inability or unwillingness to support key features from launch (MMS and tethering)

 

[chstr]

everybody that whines that people are stupid for wanting att to offer the new version of the iphone for the subsidized price to current owners dont realize that att and apple are losing a ton of money by doing this. there would be so many people that would sign a NEW 2 year contract with att and buy the new iphone which would still turn a huge profit for both companies. what's not to understand about how ridiculous att's stance is?

 

[uberamd]

everybody that whines that people are stupid for wanting att to offer the new version of the iphone for the subsidized price to current owners dont realize that att and apple are losing a ton of money by doing this. there would be so many people that would sign a NEW 2 year contract with att and buy the new iphone which would still turn a huge profit for both companies. what's not to understand about how ridiculous att's stance is?

Because AT&T is still owed money from the first phone they purchased? How can you not understand that? Its not as "duh AT&T" as you make it sound. What happens next year? People will bitch and AT&T will cave and give them ANOTHER year off their subsidized payment? Are you freaking kidding me? This will be an endless cycle if AT&T gives in to them now. They signed the contract, they need to fulfill the contract before asking for a new phone. PLAIN AND SIMPLE. AT&T is losing NO money by doing this because you are ALREADY locked into them for another year. Get it? Instead AT&T is MAKING BACK THE MONEY THEY ARE OWED!

I feel like I am talking to a bunch of middle school kids. By high school you should have learned enough about business to make sense of this.

 

[macfanboy]

I love all apple products, but I hate how apple products make some people feel special. Why should iPhone owners get lower prices because they owned a previous generation of the hardware? This is how its been since cell phones started and its been fine. Can you people grow up and realize how the business world works?

 

[kas23]

No its not. It is a stupid point.

AT&T can get the full rate, as can other carriers, for people who don't get subsidized phones so they do. There is zero advantage in giving that money back to the customer. Those are not loyal customers. They want to essentially provide a better deal to people who lock into contracts and so they subsidize the phone price. If you are too dumb to take advantage of that it is on you.

It certainly does not prove that AT&T is not subsidizing the phone price, because they clearly are doing so.

OK, so we are not actually paying the subsidy back over X amount of months, but are getting a subsidy for being loyal customers by committing for 2 years, correct? By this logic, we should then receive this full ""discount" just by committing again for an additional 2 years (therefore showing our loyalty). But, again, this is clearly not the case.

Look, I'm in the "you signed a contract, live with it" camp. I'm just trying to sift through all these purely speculative views to try to make some more sense of this situation (because it's confusing).