It's OK, but you obviously didn't read my comment close enough. I said "2 additional years from expiration date" of original contract (which is hypothetical anyways, since this is not how things work).
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AT&T has 48 hours to answer iPhone pricing complaints
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It's OK, but you obviously didn't read my comment close enough. I said "2 additional years from expiration date" of original contract (which is hypothetical anyways, since this is not how things work).
And without money there is no business and then no customers. By your logic if customers cried that they should have free phones every year and no monthly fees, well since the customer is always right then they should honor those folks with their request and just bleed off money until they go bankrupt?
The customer is not always right when their request is asinine.
I guess you could, but you would be accumulating an additional 2 years everytime you asked for a new phone. That could tie you into a contract for the rest of your years on earth (or a rather huge ETF), something AT&T would absolutely love.
Where is my post does it say At&T has no other bills to pay? Or no right to make a profit? It doesn't....Funny how people assume things to try and prove their point.
All I was simply saying was it doesn't take AT&T 2 years to make the subsidy back....
Oh and the part about "I have been living and breathing this stuff since I was a child, so fundamental business concepts are second nature to me" was a great touch....
So I could sell those phones, pay each early termination fee, and retire a rich man. There is a reason contracts are 2 years long. Any longer is unmanageable, especially with minute/feature price changes and what not.
AT&T could run the business that way, sure. But the fact that they do not is not the evidence you suggest. They know in advance that a certain number of people will not take advantage of the subsidized pricing on hardware, and they structure their business model with that in mind. In other words, the people not being subsidized are actually helping pay the subsidies for others. Or helping pay for the network, employee salaries, building leases, or whatever other costs are involved with running the business.
Its implied by what you said. Regardless of whether or not it REALLY takes 2 years for AT&T to recoup the money on JUST the device, when you couple in costs and profit per subscriber, it does take those 2 years.
I am pretty sure if they gave the phone for free and everyone on the planet signed up for the 2 year contract they would have more money than god
Which is weird, because at the launch of the iPhone 3G, AT&T warned its shareholders that it would take until 2010...
http://www.att.com/gen/press-room?pid=4800&cdvn=news&newsarticleid=25791
So if it launched in 7/2008, and doesn't turn until 2010, then that's a year and five months, assuming they meant 1/1/2010.
Think about it, if you went to AT&T as new customer and got a FREE phone or even paid for subsidized non-iPhone like a RAZR and then 6 months later a new RAZR comes out you can't upgrade to it until your contract allows you to be elegable to upgrade. Some of the non-iPhone such as the Blackberrys cost just as much and are subject to the same contract. So what makes iPhone 3G users so much more special that our contracts shouldn't matter?
I know the adopters of the first iPhone got a break but they didn't pay a subsidized price they paid full retail so that intitled them to the price break because at that time the contract for an iPhone was not subjected to a subsidized contract. I am guessing the 18+ months we have to wait to upgrade pays for the rest of the phone in that time. So again I will ask, what makes iPhone 3G users so much more special that our contracts shouldn't matter?
I was upset that I wasn't able to get the 3Gs at a subsidized price but if you think logically about it, it makes sense why. I might be a little late on this, I didn't feel like reading through all the pages to find if someone has made a similar comment.
I know the adopters of the first iPhone got a break but they didn't pay a subsidized price they paid full retail so that intitled them to the price break because at that time the contract for an iPhone was not subjected to a subsidized contract. I am guessing the 18+ months we have to wait to upgrade pays for the rest of the phone in that time. So again I will ask, what makes iPhone 3G users so much more special that our contracts shouldn't matter?
I was upset that I wasn't able to get the 3Gs at a subsidized price but if you think logically about it, it makes sense why. I might be a little late on this, I didn't feel like reading through all the pages to find if someone has made a similar comment.
Are you implying God uses currency? And no, they wouldn't These phones are not free to develop, manufacture, service, and market.
Nice find, and chances are they didn't mean 1/1/2010 either.
These idiots dont seem to understand simple economics and forgive me if anyone mentioned this already as i didnt read through this whole thread. its simple the original iphone was not subsidized so thats why people were able to upgrade from iphone 2G to iphone 3G at a subsidized price..... that being the case AT&T needs to recover that subsidized money from you and it will take at least 18 months to do so, you cant expect them to in 12 months give you another subsidized deal.....
I hate that Apple comes out looking clean in all this, they present the phone at $199/$299 as if thats all they are getting for it. when in fact apple is making like $499 or whatever it is and AT&T is paying them the rest up front for each user who buys one, then all these idiots who are ignorant attack AT&T without really knowing whats going on.
I hate that Apple comes out looking clean in all this, they present the phone at $199/$299 as if thats all they are getting for it. when in fact apple is making like $499 or whatever it is and AT&T is paying them the rest up front for each user who buys one, then all these idiots who are ignorant attack AT&T without really knowing whats going on.
As nice as it would be to never have to worry about fulfilling contractual obligations that I willingly accept, I'm keeping my fingers crossed that AT&T does not give into people like this. It'd be a sad day to see them win
I'm a terrible person
I don't think that makes you a terrible person. If AT&T was to give in, it would set a dangerous precedent for the company and would just snowball from there as EVERY customer of every phone will then demand the same treatment evry time a new phone comes out.
AT&T needs to stand firm against the entitlement brigade.
As I pointed out in an earlier post - this won't work. The rate at which money is lent out (subsidized phones are sold) would eclipse the rate at which money comes in (month bills are paid).
You cannot look just at the total value of the contract to AT&T and say that everything will work out.
It is the same reason why AT&T could not survive with just a single immortal customer who lives forever and signs a lifetime contract. By definition, this person would earn the company infinity dollars. But he would still only do so at the rate of $100 per month. In the meantime, under your policy, he could be requesting infinity phones at the rate of one every infintesimal quantum of time. So while he would be costing the company no more than infinity dollars, he would be doing so immediately from the time he became a customer. But AT&T won't make their infinite profit off of him for another infinite years. So they will go bankrupt instantly.
This is the extreme. You can see though, that even if you scale it back, the numbers don't work. AT&T must take in money at a rate that covers the amount they spend. Simple business principle at work here.
Say what? Why should Apple come out anything but "clean" in this foray? AT&T wants 100% control of the devices until they can peddle them with at home activation, because after that they don't care if the devices get unlocked or jailbroken without signing up for a contract.
During the keynote, on the website, and everywhere else Apple states the price of the device for "new and qualifying customers." Why should they need to provide anything more than that? Should they provide figures for EVERYTHING: Price for new customers, price for existing customers, price for preexisting contract holders, cost for apple to make, cost for att to purchase, total cost of ownership with every plan available, cost for gas to get down to att/apple store.
If Apple were allowed to stick the phones on the shelf and we could just pick them up with a debit or credit card, unlocked, then we would STILL be paying 6 or 700 dollars upfront anyway. You guys are killing me on this price BS. I've seen phones with ALOT less features go for more than this phone is when subsidized. For 700 dollars its still one hell of a device. Cost to manufactuer is just one part of the equation. You have to take in everything- manufacturing cost, R & D, advertising, logistics, profit (which apple is very good at). Come on now, if the iPhone wasn't worth 200 dollars subsidized with 1700 paid over the life of the contract people wouldn't buy it. End of story.
My feeling is that at&t is making them charge such inflated retail prices (just like at&t has gained a lot of other say in Apple's iPhone decisions). The 32 GB iPhone certainly doesn't have $200 more in hardware than the 32 GB Touch. Just think, would anyone sign-up for a 2 year contract with at&t if Apple set the retail price at $299 or even $399? I think at&t is leaning on Apple to charge prohibitive prices, just so people are forced to sign the 2 year contract.
Well then - you've got your get-rich quick scheme all figured out.
Simply start up your own phone company and give away phones with ttwo year contracts and you're set.
Oh but wait, they already do that. The thing is, the phone they give you is a cheap low end one. They won't give you a free touch screen smartphone for free like that.
Gee, I wonder why that is? I know there must be a reason. Just can't put my finger on it though. Oh well, who cares. I'm off to steal your idea and get rich! Thanks for sharing! Don't worry I'll send you a nice fat check once I'm a billionaire.
Oh and BTW, god is actually flat broke. Yeah, it seems he lost all his money to Madoff, just like a lot of other celebrities.
This happened to me. I CALLED att and asked what i'd be charged as a customer if I wanted to get the 3G S. The guy I talked to told me $399 and $499, which I was willing to pay. I had him note that on my acct. I then sold my 3G...on here. I get out of work and headed to ATT to pre-order. I walk in and tell the guy I want to order a 3G S. He tells me you are aware you need to pay full price. I am thinking he is talking about the 399/499, since the actual cost is 199/299. He tells me that is early upgrade cost, but as a customer I am not eligible for that. I need to pay 599/699 for them. I said listen, guy, I just called att cust care and was told 399/499. He said nope it does not work that way. I called cust care and lady told him I should be able to get phone for 399/499. He told her there was no way to edit the pricing. Once he enters my number in, which he hadn't, i'd be forced to pay 599/699. She placed us on hold several times and came back saying I could get the phone for the 399/499. The store would not do it. Kept claiming he was not able to do it. I was furious. Simply cause my 3G was now sold. The store held it's stance and told me sorry. I didnt want to deal with att to begin with, but I was not able to order on Apple's site due to that family plan text issue it was having. I ran home, removed text from my plan, got on Apple's site and ordered for 399. I simply said to myself att was clueless. Next day I got on my email...I had an email from att. READ BELOW...
"After reviewing your acct and speaking with my Supervisor and doing more research in MyCSP and checking the my handouts with regards to breaking news announcement on Early upgrade on the new iPhone , I have come to the conculsion that you were given the wrong information from the store Rep. I believe the store Rep misunderstood your Eligibility. You should recd the 16GB iPhone 3G S Early Upgrade for $399. Your acct has been noted. Advise that you should go to the Apple Store to get your upgrade iPhone. You can also call Premier 866-4! 99-8008 and their hours of operations is Mon-Fri: 8am-9pm EST to also order your iPhone. Once again I do apology for any inconvenice that this may have caused."
I did not reply or even go back to the store and fight. I felt like I got it ordered and confirmed in Apple's site, so I left it alone. Now this Twitter thing. This means all of us current custs paid $100 too much. If this passes with att, there are going to be tons of returns to Apple, which is charging 399/499, where ATT will now be charging 199/299. Mine will be one of the returns.
"After reviewing your acct and speaking with my Supervisor and doing more research in MyCSP and checking the my handouts with regards to breaking news announcement on Early upgrade on the new iPhone , I have come to the conculsion that you were given the wrong information from the store Rep. I believe the store Rep misunderstood your Eligibility. You should recd the 16GB iPhone 3G S Early Upgrade for $399. Your acct has been noted. Advise that you should go to the Apple Store to get your upgrade iPhone. You can also call Premier 866-4! 99-8008 and their hours of operations is Mon-Fri: 8am-9pm EST to also order your iPhone. Once again I do apology for any inconvenice that this may have caused."
I did not reply or even go back to the store and fight. I felt like I got it ordered and confirmed in Apple's site, so I left it alone. Now this Twitter thing. This means all of us current custs paid $100 too much. If this passes with att, there are going to be tons of returns to Apple, which is charging 399/499, where ATT will now be charging 199/299. Mine will be one of the returns.
I firmly agree with you in terms of the subsidy and the fact that we all have signed a contract. And a contract is a contract.
But, in terms of dangerous precedents, AT&T has already set many of them with the iPhone; having to buy a data plan, not being able to unlock the device (so we can't use a foreign SIM while in a foreign country), they have total control in disallowing video streaming over 3G with the iPhone, paying for MMS (it's included in the texting plans) when they will not allow MMS, etc...