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Casually (from across the pond) watching all this US cellular nightmare - T-Mobile seems like the ONLY normal carrier over there. :)
Well, given that exactly one of the dozens of European carriers is even on board with the Apple SIM at the moment, I wouldn't be too quick to laugh about us over here. :p
 
Can I get a side order of abuse with that data plan?

Just one more reason not to go the AT&T Customer Disservice route.
 
I don't understand how they can legally do this. They're effectively damaging the subscriber's equipment by rendering it less capable than it was before they started subscribing to AT&T.
 
Yeah, sure, because the first thing I want to do in London is chase down a SIM card for my iPad at a wireless store.


FWIW, this is supposed to work with EE.

Its the most common super market over here...

seriously how lazy are people these days......
 
Was going to use AT&T, not any more

I was planning on switching to AT&T as they are the only provider available in Yosemite National Park. I find this so repugnant that I've changed my mind about using them and they've lost my business. I'm sure I'm not the only one either.
 
So does anyone know whether there would be any ill-effect from simply moving my ATT SIM from my Air 1 to my new Air 2?
 
Seriously, what other purpose would it serve to lock the SIM to their network?

AT&T permanently deactivates their sim after 60 days of non-use. Locking the Apple sim (i.e. making it an AT&T sim) allows them to continue with this policy.

edit: I got the information from http://www.prepaidphonenews.com/2013...-compared.html but was unable to find it in the AT&T plan terms so I'm not sure now.
 
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Seriously, what other purpose would it serve to lock the SIM to their network?

Could there be a technical reason for this? Each SIM card has a unique ICCID. Maybe AT&T doesn't have the capability to "release" ICCIDs from their network once they have been used on them. I'm actually surprised anyone does considering I don't think you've ever been able to take a SIM card from one network and use it on another. I don't know what the technological reason behind that is but always assumed it was a carrier's knowledge that "this ICCID is is going to be used for us," and I assume Apple had to do a lot of negotiation with these carriers to get this to work in the first place.

Of course, everyone else made it work, so I don't doubt that AT&T could. Why they don't want to is another story. :) I'm just saying that this doesn't seem like it necessarily took additional effort on their part to cause inconvenience for others.
 
Its the most common super market over here...

seriously how lazy are people these days......
If you think it's that easy for international visitors you have no idea what you are talking about. It can be a huge hassle to get a local SIM up and running. Apart from finding one in the right physical format and understanding the available plans (with information often being only available in the local language), many require a credit card with a local billing address or even a local bank account to activate. All this stuff can take hours to resolve that you'd rather spend more productively.
 
First let me start by saying this is a stupid move by AT&T. It does nothing but dissuade customers from using their service. Generally SIM cards tend to cost about $15, however most corporate owned stores for the carriers will provide them without charge if they are activating them on a plan. I would imagine that Apple will likely charge between $15 - $30 for a new AppleSIM whenever they begin to make them available.

I will offer a small guess on my part as to why AT&T decided to do this and why Verizon decided to forgo supporting it all together. They are scared of the position that Apple is slowly putting them in. Many years ago, shortly after the iPhone 3G was announced there were a series of patents that Apple filed for that if acted upon would radically revolutionize the mobile carrier industry. The primary of these patents was titled "Dynamic carrier selection" which was granted in 2011.

The patent describes an MVNO (mobile virtual network operator) system that uses a proxy bidding system to solicit bids from carrier networks to provide services to user devices, which then allows a users device to obtain available networks from their location and select one to use. I've included a link below to an AI article from 2011 when the patent was approved, however I can no longer find the article original documenting the filing which also noted several potentially related patents.

One of those related patents dealt more explicitly with how a users device could utilize such a system. It described methods of querying a server to retrieve a list of available provider networks (likely the MVNO server described in the linked patent). This server would then provide a list of available networks including some available metadata which the device would determine which network to use. The device would use it's own information along with the metadata to determine several factors, such as which of the carriers has the best signal, which has the least expensive bid, which network has available capacity on the nearest towers, etc. The device would then use this information to select a network based on an algorithm that would result in the best experience for the user while using the least expensive resources available.

Another of those related patents which I can not locate described a system for handing off a data connection from one carrier network to another carrier network. This originally wouldn't have much meaning, however looking at a longer term vision would reveal that once Apple develops the systems to make all communication on their devices available as packetized data, this would be a major function of Apple operating a system that would allow the users device to truly dynamically switch to whichever carrier has available capacity, with good signal, and is the least expensive to use.

When this patent linked below, and the related patents (which I'm really sad I can't locate them) are looked at as a whole their potential is for Apple to become their own (MVNO) network operator which would push the carriers to becoming simply a "dumb pipe" that simply bids to provide available bandwidth to Apple. This would radically alter the mobile network industry and shift a massive amount of power away from the existing major network operators.

It's somewhat rational that those networks (like Verizon and AT&T) who have invested heavily to provide all sorts of supplementary features and services would not be interested in losing access to their consumer base's information, nor their additional revenue as Apple's system would likely result in favorable pricing as carriers seek to out bid each other for supplying data to the system.

Apple tried to take a step toward this system a couple years back when they were seeking to use an embedded SIM in the iPhone 5. Unfortunately (and likely for the same reason AT&T is doing this) the carriers in the EU colluded to block support of Apples devices should they move to an embedded SIM. I believe this is Apple's second attempt to take yet another step in this direction.

For Apple to successfully put this system in place they will likely need to put the carriers in the logical "Prisoners Dilemma". This will likely work fairly easily in the US where there are laws in place to help prevent collusion. Companies like the smaller regional carriers, and the smaller players such as T-Mobile and Sprint would gladly bid to supply bandwidth to Apple. This would in turn force AT&T and Verizon to either bid to supply data to Apple or stand to lose a large portion of their revenue stream. This however will be much more difficult in other areas of the world. If Apple is successful at rolling out such a system world wide, they would become the largest carrier in the world, with the ability to offer something that no other carrier could. They would be able to offer a truly world wide service that would be seamless and invisible to the end user.

My Apologies for the wall of text, but I for one can't wait until I can buy an iPhone direct from Apple and have it automatically provide me with the best service available wherever I'm located regardless of which carrier is operating the tower.

Source:
http://appleinsider.com/articles/11/02/09/apple_granted_patent_where_carriers_bid_for_iphone_service

-PopinFRESH

EDIT: P.S. if you are going to quote me, please spare the thread and don't quote the whole wall of text :)
 
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AT&T permanently deactivates their sim after 60 days of non-use. Locking the Apple sim (i.e. making it an AT&T sim) allows them to continue with this policy.
That can't be right. I have an AT&T SIM that I've been using on and off on the iPad, sometimes with far more than 60 days between activations.
 
Its the most common super market over here...

seriously how lazy are people these days......

Yeah, good point. What was I thinking? Why wouldn't I want to make a trip to the supermarket on the way to the hotel?

If you think it's that easy for international visitors you have no idea what you are talking about. It can be a huge hassle to get a local SIM up and running. Apart from finding one in the right physical format and understanding the available plans (with information often being only available in the local language), many require a credit card with a local billing address or even a local bank account to activate. All this stuff can take hours to resolve that you'd rather spend more productively.

Exactly.
 
If you think it's that easy for international visitors you have no idea what you are talking about. It can be a huge hassle to get a local SIM up and running. Apart from finding one in the right physical format and understanding the available plans (with information often being only available in the local language), many require a credit card with a local billing address or even a local bank account to activate. All this stuff can take hours to resolve that you'd rather spend more productively.

I travel alot! The option you are looking for is Pay as you go.

its not a huge issue, trust me if you come to Europe, its very easy.

Sorry but I fail to see the issue, if you want to be lazy, your carrier will slog you for huge roaming charges. If you got coin to burn, go for it, go the convenience route!
 
I travel alot! The option you are looking for is Pay as you go.

its not a huge issue, trust me if you come to Europe, its very easy.

Sorry but I fail to see the issue, if you want to be lazy, your carrier will slog you for huge roaming charges. If you got coin to burn, go for it, go the convenience route!

But why would I go to that trouble if I could just hop on the EE network instead?

Unless, of course, that was inconvenient for AT&T...
 
Well, given that exactly one of the dozens of European carriers is even on board with the Apple SIM at the moment, I wouldn't be too quick to laugh about us over here. :p

I think this is more of a US-centric/limited Apple rollout thing again, not that EU carriers would have any problems with such SIM.

Either way, I hope the SIM dies ASAP. It is such an outdated concept (like credit card), and I suspect customer lock-in is the only real reason why it is still loved by lame corporations. :rolleyes:
 
I don't understand how they can legally do this. They're effectively damaging the subscriber's equipment by rendering it less capable than it was before they started subscribing to AT&T.

It's just the sim card. They aren't locking the iPad itself. No need to throw that big of a hissy fit over it lol
 
Wasn't there a ruling recently that they can no longer do this?

Yes and no. I don't think that ruling affects these devices #1 since it's narrow legislation and bad legislation too since most people in Congress are tech stupid.

And #2, even the legislation hasn't stopped SPRINT from using the excuse that it's Apple's fault why iPhone 5s & 5c models will never be unlocked. Sprint claims that their Apple iPhones inability to use another carrier is simply how Apple designed it.

GO FIGURE. This is the only reason I'm selling my iPhone 5s for an iPhone 6. I don't even really want a bigger screen or need an iPhone 6. I just want to get rid of this PHONE LOCKING NONSENSE.
 
Some people need to take a deep breath and calm down. This does not lock the iPad to AT&T. Essentially it just converts the Apple SIM into an AT&T SIM. You're still free to swap out SIMs from other networks, it's just slightly less convenient.
 
AT&T did not explain why it opted to lock the SIM card to its network, however, with the spokesperson saying "it's just simply the way we've chosen to do it."

Oh, so I guess AT&T is okay with just paying for the new SIM card then, right?

Class Action Lawsuit in 3... 2... 1...
 
And #2, even the legislation hasn't stopped SPRINT from using the excuse that it's Apple's fault why iPhone 5s & 5c models will never be unlocked. Sprint claims that their Apple iPhones inability to use another carrier is simply how Apple designed it.

GO FIGURE. This is the only reason I'm selling my iPhone 5s for an iPhone 6. I don't even really want a bigger screen or need an iPhone 6. I just want to get rid of this PHONE LOCKING NONSENSE.

You may already know this, but Sprint still locks the iPhone 6 and 6 Plus.

Odd, because the Verizon iPhone models have all been unlocked going back to the 5, so definitely not a CDMA issue...
 
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