AT&T to Face Net Neutrality Complaint Regarding FaceTime Over Cellular Limitation

[macrumorschamp]

FaceTime over data is not an unalienable right. I agree that data is data and we should be able to use it however we want... but we have Skype! I've been Skyping over Cellular Data for a year now, and it works just fine. This isn't the great oppression of 2012.

It may not be, but it opens the door to that type of oppression. Where does it end?

 

[Pro31]

Bottom line is they want to nickel and dime you any way that they can.

 

[ThunderSkunk]

Every time I hear the letters AT&T, I cringe, cause I know some awful piece of news is coming.

If that were peoples reaction to hearing my companies name, I'd consider myself pretty damn bad at my job. Must be nice to be big enough to not give a $%^. ...for a while.

 

[macrumorschamp]

I really do not see a big problem here.

To quote holmesf:
Allowing data providers control over what services you can use poses a great threat to competition and freedom of speech. This is the point of Net Neutrality as a principle. The concept should be defended in every case, whether you personally use the service or not, because each violation sets a precedent. I believe that we do need to assert it as a right, possibly by arguing that it falls under the protection of the First Amendment of the US Constitution.

 

[tny]

So what are the chances of AT&T actually giving people FaceTime who are not on the new shared data plans?

Zero. They'll just eliminate all the other plans. When your contract runs out, you'll be forced to the shared data plan. They don't have a contractual obligation to grandfather plans.

 

[Plutonius]

Jealous?

But seriously: The grandfathered unlimited plan is basically the only thing that keeps me with AT&T ... If I couldn't keep it, I would take a close look at the other providers - AT&T pissed me of too often to have any loyalty, so taking away unlimited would mean good bye AT&T (and I am sure many other grandfathered are thinking the same way)

Not at all. I'm with T-Mobile .

AT+T will eventually end the grandfathering and will lose customers. I think though that they will come out ahead monetarily with their share plans.

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Bottom line is they want to nickel and dime you any way that they can.

All the providers in the USA do.

 

[bigrustyjc]

Unlimited used to be the only way

I think people are forgetting that the only way you could have an iPhone was to have an unlimited plan. There were plenty of people who didn't want to spend $30 a month for unlimited, but they were forced to. ATT got tons of extra money when people weren't using that much data, and didn't want an unlimited plan. Now they are punishing their long term customers by trying to make them switch off of their unlimited plans.

Problem is, they never made it enticing enough to get off of the unlimited plans. Sure, you could spend $15 and get 250MB, but 250 MB goes quickly. The only other step was $25. At that point, there was little financial incentive to get off unlimited for $5 a month. Now the new shared plans are more expensive for a large majority of people than they are currently spending, and they are now throttling those loyal customers who were forced into unlimited plans originally, in essence taking away the unlimited plans anyway. For them to limit Facetime over cellular is horrible since it isn't really unlimited data. I hope ATT loses big time on this.

I've also thought about switching, but the Verizon iPhone can't do surf and talk at the same time. There isn't a good alternative.

 

[Gage]

Is this Apple/FaceTime specific or is AT&T doing this with preloaded apps on other phones from Samsung, HTC, etc. or do those phones not have anything preloaded like FaceTime?

 

[petsounds]

You whiners need to get over it. AT&T is a business and therefore it makes business decisions.

Yup, businesses do make decisions. Sometimes those decisions are also illegal under Federal law.

You don't seem to get it. If AT&T want to raise the prices of their current plans to account for higher data usage, that's within their rights. What we the people will not stand for is AT&T charging for individual data types. You talk about free markets, well the internet is a free market too. Bytes are bytes. When service providers start taxing individual data services, this wild experiment is all over. So, that cannot happen.

 

[MacFly123]

I HOPE YOU BURN AT&T!!!

 

[CubusX]

Exatcly

Zero. They'll just eliminate all the other plans. When your contract runs out, you'll be forced to the shared data plan. They don't have a contractual obligation to grandfather plans.

AT&T has to be on the verge of making that decision.

 

[macrumorschamp]

I think people are forgetting that the only way you could have an iPhone was to have an unlimited plan. There were plenty of people who didn't want to spend $30 a month for unlimited, but they were forced to. ATT got tons of extra money when people weren't using that much data, and didn't want an unlimited plan. Now they are punishing their long term customers by trying to make them switch off of their unlimited plans.

Problem is, they never made it enticing enough to get off of the unlimited plans. Sure, you could spend $15 and get 250MB, but 250 MB goes quickly. The only other step was $25. At that point, there was little financial incentive to get off unlimited for $5 a month. Now the new shared plans are more expensive for a large majority of people than they are currently spending, and they are now throttling those loyal customers who were forced into unlimited plans originally, in essence taking away the unlimited plans anyway. For them to limit Facetime over cellular is horrible since it isn't really unlimited data. I hope ATT loses big time on this.

I've also thought about switching, but the Verizon iPhone can't do surf and talk at the same time. There isn't a good alternative.

If you don't mind monitoring your data usage, do what I did. Switch to Straight Talk. It's AT&T without their crap. Missing two things, otherwise it's all fine. No visual voicemail, and I have to limit data usage to 2GB to 3GB a month.

 

[darkslide29]

You are right, so I edited that post. However, FaceTime is not a standalone application and can only be accessed from the phone dialing app. It is a part of the operating system and can not be removed simply by removing the application. This would be like saying that the voicemail feature should cost more simply because it's on the iPhone (NOT visual voicemail, but simply voicemail as it was on the original iPhone) and not also charge Android users the same.

Android also has video chat over 3G features through Google Talk which comes bundled with the phone and it is advertised on say the Google Nexus S phone amongst others. Why aren't they going through the same hoops? Exactly because AT&T is stuck with iPhone grandfathered users and even users on their current plans who they want off of them and see this as a sneaky way to go about it. They should just drop the plans, suck up ETF costs, and apologize for ending the agreement early or at all. All this other nonsense they are doing opens the door to do this on any application at all on any phone. One day they could say they want to charge you for the gamecenter data usage that occurs when you launch Angry Birds simply because so many people own that game and it causes a strain on their network (which they refuse to provide and prove occurs in the slightest).

Good point about video chat over 3G with the bundled google talk. Looks bad when they can't even be consistent about their policy.
Your point is well taken that they are just picking and choosing what to put this policy on and can open the door for abuse later on.

 

[KTF]

This. I have NO love for Verizon in any way shape or form after my previous experience with them. I also DO use voice and data simultaneously OFTEN. As far as the Facetime thing? Eh, 99.9% of the time I'm somewhere with WiFi anyway so what's it matter. I sure as heck ain't getting rid of my unlmited plans due to it and wind up paying MORE for less!

I Never Try To Said You Like Verizon More Or Anything Like It Sorry For The Miss understood For Me Both At&T & Verizon Are Evil And One Way Agree With You hope AT&T gets penalized for this crap

 

[Wild-Bill]

At$t sucks

I hate AT$T. I'm glad I switched to VZ. I had HORRIBLE call quality and tons of dropped calls with AT$T.

All of the carriers are greedy but it seems AT$T is, by far, the greediest.

 

[jrbdmb]

If they lose, they'll probably pass the cost onto us, like always. AT&T continues to pass these intolerable acts, and that didn't work out too well for the British.

I hope to see their downfall in my lifetime. But they're still the only company that is decent in my area.

Still preferable to Verizon, who is forcing subs to go to their much-more-expensive shared plan or pay full retail for their phone.

 

[samson533]

I think you are missing the point. By offering FaceTime, AT&T does not incur any additional cost. Data is data. If I pay for data, what difference does it make what I use it for? If I use to much data I get throttled. That's how AT&T controls costs.

I agree with you. Throttling is a way that AT&T uses to control costs. My only argument has ever been that if they don't want to allow it to be on their old grandfathered in unlimited plans (as another way to control costs), they are within their rights to do so.

 

[kivancmuslu]

Zero. They'll just eliminate all the other plans. When your contract runs out, you'll be forced to the shared data plan. They don't have a contractual obligation to grandfather plans.

I don't believe that this is true. I just upgraded my iPhone 4 to iPhone 5 and was able to have a new 2-year plan with 250 MB data plan (the one I already had).

 

[msteffer]

Hit 'em hard!

 

[Codyak]

Sorry I read it wrong... =) you are right...

https://www.macrumors.com/2012/09/1...tomers-get-5gb-on-lte-before-being-throttled/

Additionally, unlike Verizon, which is no longer offering unlimited data customers discounted pricing on new handsets -- even with a new, two-year contract -- AT&T will honor its subsidized pricing policies even for its customers with unlimited data plans.

AT&T is not offering unlimited anymore, same as Verizon, so those are moot points. Second, it hardly counts as unlimited when you only get a portion then your speed is cut, and then on top of that, AT&T's LTE coverage is a joke compared to Verizon's.

Like I said, in the long run, do you wanna pay more and get more, or pay less and get less? The choice is yours.

 

[tbrinkma]

Remember that part of your contracts class where they discussed "opportunity costs?" (no?) That's what it's called when I sign a contract with AT&T which prevents me from signing a contract with a competitor who might have continued my unlimited data. So yes, a 2 year contract does sometimes create obligations beyond its terms.

I didn't say the anything about the contract terms (defined duties and obligations). I discussed, the contract's 2-year term (duration). As in the 2-year period of time during which the contract terms are in effect.

There's actually nothing in the AT&T contract which prevents you from signing a contract with a competitor. But that's neither here nor there. The 'opportunity costs' aren't a part of the contract. In this case, they're likely the fact that you can't afford (and almost certainly don't need) two different cell phones at the same time, so having two active cell-phone service contracts isn't worth the extra $$$ to you. That has nothing to do with either the contract term (duration) or terms (defined duties and obligations).

 

[samson533]

AT&T has never had a contract that never allowed FaceTime on their networks. You also don't have a contract with AT&T that allows you to use any app that uses data on their networks. You also don't have a contract that does NOT allow you to use FaceTime on their networks. They are making crap up to force a change in order to get people out of their current contracts without ending them.

Ever since the Facetime service was announced AT&T has been very clear that they would not allow its use on their networks. They have never let customers believe otherwise. So all those who think that AT&T owes it to them as part of their data contract are completely clueless as to what AT&T has agreed to. No one from AT&T has ever sold a data plan to someone without it being very clear that Facetime would not be allowed. I'm sure if you look in the MacRumors archives you could find when Apple first announced Facetime and then a story right after it about AT&T not allowing it on there networks.

Therefore everyone who has switched to AT&T, resigned a contract with AT&T, or simply continues their grandfathered unlimited plan since has always known that AT&T won't let them use their data for Facetime. There has not been any deception, no bait and switch, nothing. That's always been their policy.

Now that AT&T is going to allow it on their new plans, people are in an uproar because they want that to be grandfathered in as well. AT&T choose not to and are well within there rights to do so.

I understand people being upset because they have been on the unlimited data gravy train. But AT&T (to my knowledge) hasn't used either deception or coercion to get new clients or to keep there old ones. If they have or do then that's illegal and a lawsuit ensues. But people aren't saying "AT&T tricked me" or "AT&T said . . . then afterword they changed their minds." They are wanting AT&T to add a new service onto existing plans and AT&T doesn't want to.

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Just because AT&T sells me data doesn't mean they should be able to tell me how to use it. Limit the amount of data I can use? Ok. Charge me extra or suspend my service after I use a set amount? Ok, I can live with those too.

The power company doesn't tell me how to use the electricity it sells me. Comcast doesn't tell me how to use the bandwidth it sells me. The water company doesn't tell me how to use the water it sells me. Dodge doesn't tell me how to drive the car it sold me.

So why should AT&T be able to tell me how to use the data it sells me?

AT&T told you before they sold you the data that Facetime would not be allowed. You purchased it by your own free choice under those conditions. Plain and simple.

 

[JForestZ34]

I'm not backing AT&T up or anything... they're the only service provider that catches at my house...

It works both ways... trying imagine what our data speeds would be like if they did allow facetime over cellular? talk about bogging down the network it be pointless to facetime being all choppy and lagging...

be happy AT&T didn't do what verzion is doing... NO UNLIMITED plans with iPhone 5...

and on the plus at least we can talk and browse...

it's not much, but it is something...

I am imagIning it. It will work fine when you pay more money for data. That is what AT&T is saying. They will let you use it if you pay more. How is that fair. It will work fine if you pay more money or not. Like paying more money will make the service work better


James

 

[samson533]

You are incorrect sir.

AT&T sells a service, that service is data. Customers should be free to do what they want with that data. If that includes making Facetime calls over 3G/4G that is their choice. They are paying for the data and they get to choose how they use it. If they go over their allotted amount, they pay overage charges. It's as simple as that.

Businesses are in the business of making money, but they still have ethical obligations. Trying to restrict the way someone uses a service they are paying for isn't ethical and that is why people are complaining.

You are correct. AT&T sells a service. They sell data. AT&T told you before they sold you the data that Facetime would not be allowed. You purchased it by your own free choice under those conditions. Plain and simple.

AT&T has always been very clear Facetime wouldn't be allowed. Where is the ethical dilemma? I think its unethical for consumers who knew that they signed an AT&T contract knowing full well that AT&T wouldn't allow Facetime, then say that AT&T has "ethical obligations" to provide that service.

 

[samson533]

Yup, businesses do make decisions. Sometimes those decisions are also illegal under Federal law.

You don't seem to get it. If AT&T want to raise the prices of their current plans to account for higher data usage, that's within their rights. What we the people will not stand for is AT&T charging for individual data types. You talk about free markets, well the internet is a free market too. Bytes are bytes. When service providers start taxing individual data services, this wild experiment is all over. So, that cannot happen.

What has AT&T done that is illegal? AT&T is simply trying to get out of the old grandfathered unlimited data plans. They aren't charging for different types of 1's and 0's. They made a mistake by offering unlimited 1's and 0's. So they are giving people the option: "Continue the service we have always provided unlimited 1's and 0's, but like always because you have access to an unlimited pool we won't offer Facetime." or "Agree to pay for the actual data you use and the world is your oyster." or "After your agreed to contract is over you are free to find a provider that offers the services you want at a price you are free to agree to."

Nothing illegal (or more importantly immoral) has happened. You are free to choose.