AT&T to Face Net Neutrality Complaint Regarding FaceTime Over Cellular Limitation

[WatchTheThrone]

You whiners need to get over it. AT&T is a business and therefore it makes business decisions. When AT&T offered unlimited data, devices simply didn't use that much, they were slow, apps were slow, steaming movies and videos through cellular technology wasn't quite here yet, etc.

Now data consumption has gone through the roof and AT&T has to manage their costs. You are bunch of entitled babies that expect businesses to operate at a loss to give you the service you think you deserve. You are lucky they didn't strip away your unlimited data already. Businesses are NOT in business for the good of humanity. They are here to make a profit. They make a profit by providing goods or services at a price where we can FREELY choose to trade our hard earned dollars for that service. If you don't like the service they provide, STOP freely CHOOSING to trade your dollars for their service. It's as simple as that.

O Mit Romney, shouldn't you be campaigning instead of being on macrumors....

 

[macrumorschamp]

I would also like to point out that these BS statements about the network being bogged down by all FaceTime users is crap. If everyone is on these Shared Data Plans, how is that any different? IT'S NOT! Only morons would believe this load of crap about network usage and the infrastructure not being able to support it. If that were true, why allow any video chat applications over 3G at all and lock them out of ALL phones, Android included?

 

[macs4nw]

AT&T official argument is that they can do this because it is a stock app and not a downloaded app? Maybe Apple should make a move and remove it from iOS6 and offer it as additional download ...

If this is feasible, sounds like a good temporary workaround, because AT&T of course will come up with another good excuse to deny that Facetime functionality. As has been noted before, they probably will stop at nothing to try to get rid of all those 'pesky' unlimited plans.

Apple must also be sick of AT&T since they limit iPhone functionality for no good reason.

I'm wondering as you are, if they're frustrated with AT&T.

...If they lose, they'll probably pass the cost onto us, like always.

You're probably right, regrettably so.

Can't AT&T just slow down the data connection on FaceTime calls, so as to make FaceTime unusable? Maybe so the video updates once every 10 seconds or so. There are ways around this that won't please anyone but AT&T.

...to twist or bend their arm until they give up their evil ways of trying to milk their customers.

'Milking customers' is what more and more companies seem to do these days. It's all about that bottom line. Another excellent reason why competition in the marketplace is essential for consumers.

....."It’s particularly outrageous that AT&T is requiring this for iPad users, given that this device isn’t even capable of making voice calls.

Data is data.

...that is a crappy move on their part. It's our data to do with it what we please.

It's not asking too much and seems more than reasonable.

 

[kivancmuslu]

Your assumption is only people who has(grandfathered) unlimited data plans are complaining. AT&T has been pushing most of the unlimited data users to capped data plans. With LTE it is now 5GB full speed and throttle.

So what about customers with 3GB plan and using 300MB a month. Why can't they use remaining data for FaceTime. I guess one should burn remaining data by video streaming, May be there is an app for that.

As I mentioned in my post, I do understand the opposition from limited data plan users, so I am with you. I guess AT&T just wants to get 20$ more per month by getting you to a shared plan if you want to use FaceTime with cellular. That being said, as I mentioned before, the reason might also be due to their fear from unlimited plan users (i.e., if they let us than it looks as if they also have to let them).

 

[macrumorschamp]

You are correct. AT&T sells a service. They sell data. AT&T told you before they sold you the data that Facetime would not be allowed. You purchased it by your own free choice under those conditions. Plain and simple.

AT&T has always been very clear Facetime wouldn't be allowed. Where is the ethical dilemma? I think its unethical for consumers who knew that they signed an AT&T contract knowing full well that AT&T wouldn't allow Facetime, then say that AT&T has "ethical obligations" to provide that service.

To point this out again, unless you read everything on Apple, iPhones, or the like, you might not know this and AT&T reps do not mention this when purchasing an iPhone. It's not plastered all over their website nor is it on Apple's. In fact, take a trip over to AT&T's wireless support or their iPhone product page, FAQ's, Support Questions and you will see no mention of FaceTime over 3G and how they don't allow it. There are many people out there who know nothing of this issue. Just because you read tech news, don't expect the rest of the world does. It's the same way some people vote, but they know nothing more about the candidates they vote for than the commercials they see on public television. That is a HUGE portion of the population BTW.

----------

What has AT&T done that is illegal? AT&T is simply trying to get out of the old grandfathered unlimited data plans. They aren't charging for different types of 1's and 0's. They made a mistake by offering unlimited 1's and 0's. So they are giving people the option: "Continue the service we have always provided unlimited 1's and 0's, but like always because you have access to an unlimited pool we won't offer Facetime." or "Agree to pay for the actual data you use and the world is your oyster." or "After your agreed to contract is over you are free to find a provider that offers the services you want at a price you are free to agree to."

Nothing illegal (or more importantly immoral) has happened. You are free to choose.

It's illegal if they don't do the same with other Applications and phones that offer the same service, which is exactly what is going on here.

If they ALLOWED it and ALSO gave them the option to move to a new Shared Data plan, then that would be fine, but that is not what is happening.

Do you work for AT&T? I just don't understand why you don't understand these plain truths.

----------

The bulk of iPhone owners in the States are on AT&T, which stands to reason the bulk of users on this board in the States are on AT&T. I only have one thing to say to you:

Quit your ********. Every negative AT&T article in this forum has two things in common: People whining about how evil their carrier is, and the same people continuing to stick it to the man by.. continuing to use and pay for said carrier.

Either get a new carrier or get off this thread. And when you get off your soapbox, I'll get down off my high horse.

This I agree with. You absolutely NOW have the option to change carriers and get equivalent service give or take a feature.

THIS thread however is about AT&T pushing the boundaries that will allow them to tariff or tax so to speak standard features that have NOTHING to do with the data you pay for. They have yet to produce a single article of proof that shows any of the things they stated. They couldn't even prove they had "more bars in more places" when their slogan changed to that during the Cingular fiasco even after being subpoenaed.

----------

I don't disagree with a single thing you said. This tread isn't about consumer reaction. It's about consumers attempting to use bureaucratic power to force AT&T to provide a service they don't want to provide (Facetime on unlimited data plans).

Now I have no problem calling you an idiot. It's the bureaucratic powers that give you the freedoms you have now in the USA. If you don't use them, you lose them. You don't give people, governments, or in this case, businesses absolute power in how to dictate usage. You take away the rights of the people by doing so. Without the ability to legally object to these changes, we have no other recourse if we are locked into a contract. Sure, once our contract ends, we can leave WITHOUT penalty, but at that point, will it matter? You would have gone two years without a feature people on the same network using a different smartphone were getting at no additional cost. Why do I have to pay more because I own an iPhone? Idiot.

----------

Well, I personally think this is about their unlimited plans. If you are crying about other plans, the mobile share plan is almost always a better value. Unlimited minutes & texts, tethering included and if you have an iPad, you can just share your data pool. My bill dropped $25/mo and I now get a more for my money.

I don't understand what boundary was overstepped. AT&T is willing to offer Facetime on there new plans (which are better then their previous plans) so just switch. The only people that have reason to gripe are those with the unlimited grandfathered plans, which AT&T could just discontinue at anytime for any reason.

I am on an individual plan and I would absolutely pay more. What is wrong with my current plan that they can't enable the usage of FaceTime on this plan as opposed to their Shared Data plan with whom I have no one or any other devices to share my data with? It's bogus.

 

[Dainin]

I personally filed a complaint with the FCC when this was first announced. AT&T called me to try and work out the issue, but obviously the person who called me back had no way to resolve the issue.

The more complaints the FCC receives the more likely they are to do something.

http://www.fcc.gov/complaints

 

[Judas1]

Awesome, so now we have communists posting on Macrumors.

A guy sticking up for a big business is the farthest thing from a communist. And didn't you hear, the new bad guys are terrorists.

 

[Macboy Pro]

This would be true if the iPhone worked on all networks without variation.

The adapters are not required for the "Phone" to function. The tied device carrier is.

Are you suggesting that AT&T provide a service that Verizon doesn't. I wouldn't do that on this forum, the AT&T haters will go crazy!

 

[petsounds]

What has AT&T done that is illegal? AT&T is simply trying to get out of the old grandfathered unlimited data plans. They aren't charging for different types of 1's and 0's. They made a mistake by offering unlimited 1's and 0's.

You're jumping straight to "the end justifies the means". They are indeed charging for different types of 1's and 0's when they decided to say, "This plan gets FaceTime, but on this other plan we're going to block it because it's not in our interest". That's a violation of FCC net neutrality rules.

There is a much easier solution to AT&T's problem than running afoul of the FCC and generating a lot of customer hatred: charge more for unlimited plans. As I said before, AT&T has every right to set the price of bytes, and the FCC agrees with that.

 

[Dcuellar]

If AT&T is forced to allow FaceTime over cellular what will stop them from forcing people to come off of their unlimited plans?

 

[iphoneclassic]

As I mentioned in my post, I do understand the opposition from limited data plan users, so I am with you. I guess AT&T just wants to get 20$ more per month by getting you to a shared plan if you want to use FaceTime with cellular. That being said, as I mentioned before, the reason might also be due to their fear from unlimited plan users (i.e., if they let us than it looks as if they also have to let them).

I probably missed your comment regarding limited data plans.

AT&T got this wrong in million ways.

As mentioned in the complaint iPad/3G uses need not to pay for unlimited voice/data.

Also this could be discrimination against single line users. Why should they subscribe to Mobile Share plan. Asking to add a iPad/3G will be even more funny.

AT&T ruffled quite a few feathers at FCC/FTC/DOJ during T-Mobile merger. Let's see what happens.

Most funny part is AT&T's Chief Legal Officer started a blog to explain (intimidate) anyone try to question this policy.

 

[Rilely]

You whiners need to get over it. AT&T is a business and therefore it makes business decisions. When AT&T offered unlimited data, devices simply didn't use that much, they were slow, apps were slow, steaming movies and videos through cellular technology wasn't quite here yet, etc.

Now data consumption has gone through the roof and AT&T has to manage their costs. You are bunch of entitled babies that expect businesses to operate at a loss to give you the service you think you deserve. You are lucky they didn't strip away your unlimited data already. Businesses are NOT in business for the good of humanity. They are here to make a profit. They make a profit by providing goods or services at a price where we can FREELY choose to trade our hard earned dollars for that service. If you don't like the service they provide, STOP freely CHOOSING to trade your dollars for their service. It's as simple as that.

Yes, we should just STOP freely choosing to trade in our dollars... other than they sign you in to ridiculous 2 year contracts.

Unfair business practices are unfair. Even Teddy Roosevelt, who was a famous Republican fought hard against greedy, uncapitalistic, business practices like monopolies and collusion. Stop being a corporate apologist.

 

[macMD]

AT&T deserves to be dragged over the hot coals for this. Although I have to ask if they are violating the spirit of the law or the actual law itself. Sprint and Verizon have shown their networks can handle Facetime over Cellular or FoC yet AT&T with the most anemic network that is so fragile can't, or is it they just want to force those unlimited users off those data plans with a carrot.

 

[pmallgood]

Apple Wireless

I think Apple should buy AT&T. Create "Apple Wireless" I'm absolutely sure it would dominate, at least among iOS users. Service tailored for iOS devices. And be able to buy your new iPhone at an Apple store, and walk out with service from Apple.

 

[tehroonieh MD]

I still don't get why tethering isn't being included in this complaint. If I am paying for data, be it limited or unlimited, I should get to choose how I use that data. I believe this is also a violation of that very same regulation.

 

[pmallgood]

Die!

AT&T Must Die! Period.

 

[vastoholic]

Well, I personally think this is about their unlimited plans. If you are crying about other plans, the mobile share plan is almost always a better value. Unlimited minutes & texts, tethering included and if you have an iPad, you can just share your data pool. My bill dropped $25/mo and I now get a more for my money.

I don't understand what boundary was overstepped. AT&T is willing to offer Facetime on there new plans (which are better then their previous plans) so just switch. The only people that have reason to gripe are those with the unlimited grandfathered plans, which AT&T could just discontinue at anytime for any reason.

The mobile share plans are only better if you have multiple people to put on the plan. It's not exactly a better deal for a single person with only one phone on a plan. I pay $90 (gov't discount) for 3GB Data/Mo and 450 minutes, of which I only use about 50-100 of those each month anyway, and unlimited text. If I switch to a shared plan. The price goes up to $110 + tax which, will probably come down to $105 after my discount and for that I get one more GB/Mo, the same texting, and unlimited calling that I don't need anyway. So why would I want to spend an extra $20/Mo for an extra GB just to use the FaceTime over cellular feature.

I'm honestly not too upset not having this feature, as I'm usually at home or in a semi private setting when I do FaceTime, but I would like the option to do so without having to pay more each month. It's about being fair to all of your customers, which they are not doing with this move.

 

[JuBe]

Well, I personally think this is about their unlimited plans. If you are crying about other plans, the mobile share plan is almost always a better value. Unlimited minutes & texts, tethering included and if you have an iPad, you can just share your data pool. My bill dropped $25/mo and I now get a more for my money.

I don't understand what boundary was overstepped. AT&T is willing to offer Facetime on there new plans (which are better then their previous plans) so just switch. The only people that have reason to gripe are those with the unlimited grandfathered plans, which AT&T could just discontinue at anytime for any reason.

They have already responded to the unlimited plans in a way that they say helps to keep their networks healthy (i.e. throttling). Recognizing that fact, you're left with the reality that there should be no reason that FaceTime cannot be possible. There is no reason to say that I can stream Netflix until I'm throttled and then to turn around and say I have to buy a different plan just so I can stream someone's face until I'm throttled. What AT&T is doing is discriminating against legal uses of data for the purpose of coercing customers into paying more for less data.

 

[JuBe]

The only people that are truly complaining about this have the grandfathered unlimited plans. I agree with you otherwise. But in that case, if you take the time to do the math, the new mobile share plans are a better value (esp. if you have multiple devices).

You keep saying only those with unlimited plans, but it impacts everyone that has a data plan that is not the Mobile Share plan.

 

[JuBe]

First they took away MMS, and I did not speak out- Because I did not use MMS.

Then they took away FaceTime over cell data, and I did not...

I better stop before Martin Nemoeller strangles me from the grave.

Hahaha!

 

[JuBe]

I didn't say that AT&T it operating at a loss. I just said people wouldn't care if they did as long as they got the service they felt entitled to. AT&T is a public company and you can get access to their financial statements any time you want.

I'm sorry you got so worked up over all this you had to use your symbols *&#$&%*#. I didn't intent to use conjecture. I've just simply said that AT&T is free choose to offer whatever plans and services they want. If they are going to start offering Facetime (A NEW SERVICE THEY HAVEN'T PREVIOUSLY SUPPORTED), then it can be on their terms.

You're aware that FaceTime is not a service provided by AT&T, right? Data transfer is the service they provide, and that most certainly has been around since they offered any of their data plans.

 

[JuBe]

Yes, you can add those tags to any car, assuming you buy a new one for each car. That's the trick. The tags (in most cities that use them) are associated with *both* the car and the company. If the company sells the car, the tag is invalidated, even if it's bought by another taxi service. If the service needs to replace the car, they need to buy a new tag. (Oh, and the tags are usually for a short, but multi-year term.)

Given the example, the tags were likely on the Towncars because that's what they used *before* the Prius was released.

Frankly, it's a bad example, because it doesn't map well at all to the situation the OP was trying to analogize. The circumstances are sufficiently different, and the OP apparently doesn't understand how/why the airport-specific cars came into being.

Would it help if I changed "airport" to "mall?"

 

[JuBe]

So facetime is blocked on all AT&T data plans, not just the unlimited plan? I'm confused.

Any plan that isn't the Mobile Share plan. That includes unlimited and current tiered data plans.

 

[JuBe]

I personally filed a complaint with the FCC when this was first announced. AT&T called me to try and work out the issue, but obviously the person who called me back had no way to resolve the issue.

The more complaints the FCC receives the more likely they are to do something.

http://www.fcc.gov/complaints

Yeah me too. A Heidi Terrell? I responded to her email, but she kept sending notices like I hadn't responded (or my messages were filtered into spam). I guess she told the FCC I hadn't responded because then they sent me a letter, so I finally called and left a message for her on Friday... haven't heard back.

 

[bigrustyjc]

I personally filed a complaint with the FCC when this was first announced. AT&T called me to try and work out the issue, but obviously the person who called me back had no way to resolve the issue.

The more complaints the FCC receives the more likely they are to do something.

http://www.fcc.gov/complaints

I also submitted a complaint to the FCC. It was surprisingly easy and not time consuming. Not sure if it will help, but we will see.