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Attempted Apple Store Holdup Goes Bad: Suspect Killed

As much of an epic pwning that is if I might say so that's a total excessive use of force and the placement of the shot tells me he probably took his time aiming and that the suspect probably wasn't brandishing a weapon. Trust me when you have a guy pointing a gun at you your not worried about headshots your worried about hitting center mass...besides there was no mention of any immediate threat to the guard.
 
mfulton said:
He's got his own gun, so DAMN STRAIGHT he shoots back. So would you, assuming you didn't just piss yourself and quiver in fear.
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Too many home owners with hand guns don't have any idea how dam hard their arms will shake when they display a gun to drive off a bad guy. No matter how many hours at the shooting range you have, when the ****** hits the fan, most defenders are gonna shake like there's a 8.9 quake going on. That's when the bad guy whacks you with a crowbar and disarms you or worse.
 
Judo said:
I know it's easy to concentrate on "fanatics" because it makes your side of an argument that much easier. But stop being intellectually lazy. It really helps no one.

People with guns kill people.
People in cars kill people.
Laws can protect people.
Laws for owning and using firearms, and laws for driving cars can save lives.

Americans seem to polarize on gun control. It's not so black and white.
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So outlawing guns is the answer of course right? Well lets outlaw knives, they kill people, how about outlawing ropes too since they can kill people.
 
LagunaSol said:
Damn right it's not a game. And I'll do my best to shoot him before he can shoot me. What would you do, cower in the corner? Throw flower pots at him? Hide under the bed? Whatever. It's your life.
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I'm not strictly against the principle of keeping firearms for self-defense. But your implication that there is no reasonable alternative to armed confrontation is absurd. The suggestion that I might be a coward because I am not ready for a gun battle is also insulting. I don't own anything that I need to risk my life to defend.
 
Mattie Num Nums said:
So outlawing guns is the answer of course right? Well lets outlaw knives, they kill people, how about outlawing ropes too since they can kill people.
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Ahem .. I think you'll find knives are classed as offensive weapons in the UK ... currently at least ... as should Mc Donald's fayre ... tho' they take a bit longer to kill you, mind ...

Fascinating Fact:
Did you know that the machine that makes the polystyrene containers is the very SAME machine that makes the Big Macs?.
 
roadbloc said:
I don't believe anyone has been shot in any Apple Store in the UK.
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Thats not what I meant, I meant that people are shot and killed for similar reasons everywhere around the world for stealing. Hell in some countries they do worse. The only way to fix the problem is to destroy all weapons everywhere.
 
Mattie Num Nums said:
So outlawing guns is the answer of course right? Well lets outlaw knives, they kill people, how about outlawing ropes too since they can kill people.
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Knives have other uses - cutting meat, rope, knifing the neighbour's tyres because their car alarm has gone off at 4am AGAIN, etc.

Ropes have other uses - bondage, tying deer to your car's roof, mountaineering, etc.

Guns ... well, they're mainly about shooting things. Rifles are useful for farmers. But handguns designed for human-human shooting?

However, once you have guns endemic within a country, it's pretty damn hard to remove them all, and voluntary schemes would leave only criminals with guns - not an ideal situation as they'd have all the power.
 
LagunaSol said:
If some armed dirtbag breaks through my window to steal my stuff and threaten the safety of my family, he gets to say hello to my little friend: the classic American Smith & Wesson .357 magnum revolver (3" barrel).
That's just the way it is. And should be.
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That much power and a 3" barrel means your ceiling has a lot more to fear than any dirtbag. You better put on a helmet first, there's great danger the gun barrel is going to lay your forehead open too.
 
SandynJosh said:
That much power and a 3" barrel means your ceiling has a lot more to fear than any dirtbag. You better put on a helmet first, there's great danger the gun barrel is going to lay your forehead open too.
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The .357 Magnum is a pretty comfortable gun to shoot, even with a short barrel, if you practice. Over-penetration is a much bigger concern with the .357 than recoil. Plenty of innocent people have been shot and killed by bullets travelling through walls.
 
LagunaSol said:
Damn right it's not a game. And I'll do my best to shoot him before he can shoot me. What would you do, cower in the corner? Throw flower pots at him? Hide under the bed? Whatever. It's your life.
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While his wife and kids watch as their impotent husband and father begs like a dog for his own life. What a way to live.
 
k2director said:
I've seen this sentiment multiple times in this thread: "Oh it's so sad that the security guard has to live with the knowledge that he took a life."

I don't think that's sad. Personally, I see shooting an armed robber as a thing to celebrate, and boost self-esteem.

Not all life is sacred. If you plan to do violence to innocent people, your's isn't.
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Wow...if that's your opinion then almost every western government needs to burn.
 
Lord Blackadder said:
I'm not strictly against the principle of keeping firearms for self-defense. But your implication that there is no reasonable alternative to armed confrontation is absurd. The suggestion that I might be a coward because I am not ready for a gun battle is also insulting. I don't own anything that I need to risk my life to defend.
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You assume someone will let you live just because you give them what they want. Pretty dangerous idea to bet your life on.
 
WestonHarvey1 said:
While his wife and kids watch as their impotent husband and father begs like a dog for his own life. What a way to live.
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Like I said before, if you manufacture a binary scenario it's easy to make a decision. But you're dealing in pure fantasy by suggesting that any home invasion requires a firefight. "Say hello to my little friend"? What bluster.

WestonHarvey1 said:
You assume someone will let you live just because you give them what they want. Pretty dangerous idea to bet your life on.
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You assume that you'll be able to reach your weapon, that you'll be able to confront the intruder and determine whether they are armed (nless you shoot on sight and hope the courts agree it was justifable), and that you won't shoot anyone else by mistake or through a wall, or be shot yourself. For the third time, I have never said armed self-defense isn't a valid option, but you refuse to recognize any alternatives, and that is nonsense.
 
I don't get all the people saying this was unjustified or what have you. Seriously if you go armed somewhere with the purpose of committing a crime and you get killed in the process that is pretty justified. Why is it so many people "feel" for the guilty? I for one am much happier the security guard who was doing his job and is a law abiding citizen is safe than some idiot who figured they could break the law and by going armed was equally willing to wound or kill someone to do it.

I am always amazed at how many people want to play the moral high ground at the expense of the lives of people who are there to protect us. All this kind of thing does by people complaining and saying things like how unjust and what have you does is make it more likely those people who put their lives on the line like police to protect our safety will be at more risk. How many police/security guards are going to die by hesitating to fire because of fear that they will be second guessed? Yes there should have to be a danger involved if a police or security guard shoots someone but instead of having people complaining that he killed the suspect he should be getting compliments on doing what was needed and for being able to do it.

And those who are saying but its only robbery.. its only products being stolen and its not worth a life need to stop and think whether they want those responsible for safekeeping their lives to stop and evaluate the severity of the crime before taking action each time. Do we want security guards who will say "oh they might be armed and i might have to shoot them so since its just a robbery I will just sit back and let it go so nothing bad happens."

I wonder how many people would be suggesting leniency for the suspect had he killed the guard instead. Most people would be shouting for his execution, or life imprisonment and most of those people are the same saying the guard went too far.
 
SandynJosh said:
Too many home owners with hand guns don't have any idea how dam hard their arms will shake when they display a gun to drive off a bad guy. No matter how many hours at the shooting range you have, when the ****** hits the fan, most defenders are gonna shake like there's a 8.9 quake going on. That's when the bad guy whacks you with a crowbar and disarms you or worse.
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We're not talking about a home owner, we're talking about a security guard who's gone through at least minimal training for such situations. Drastically different situations.
 
Lord Blackadder said:
I'm not strictly against the principle of keeping firearms for self-defense. But your implication that there is no reasonable alternative to armed confrontation is absurd. The suggestion that I might be a coward because I am not ready for a gun battle is also insulting. I don't own anything that I need to risk my life to defend.
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And what if he's intent not on stealing something, but murdering you, raping your wife or abducting your children?
 
Lord Blackadder said:
Like I said before, if you manufacture a binary scenario it's easy to make a decision. But you're dealing in pure fantasy by suggesting that any home invasion requires a firefight. "Say hello to my little friend"? What bluster.
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Hopefully you will never experience a home invasion. But if you do, I'm sorry to tell you, but all that idealism will go out the window. Your only thought will be survival. It is an unimaginably terrifying experience. You will not be thinking "Maybe he's a nice robber".
 
http://www.geek.com/articles/apple/apple-store-san-diego-shooting-today-ends-in-one-death-2011044/

http://www.nbcsandiego.com/news/local/Shooting-Reported-at-Otay-Ranch-Town-Center-119181734.html

Apple hired the officer, not the mall. The store was not open at 7am when the smash and grab occurred. The robbers broke through the glass in front. The officer was inside the store. The criminals pulled their guns out first. Shots were fired. One gunman was shot in the butt. The other was shot in the head. Since the guy shot in the head was in the car when he died, my guess is the guard had nothing else to aim at.

One of the handguns used was stolen, which irks me. If you are going to own a gun, and I have several, lock them up.
 
rtkane said:
And what if he's intent not on stealing something, but murdering you, raping your wife or abducting your children?
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Are you suggesting that every person who doesn't arm themselves against such exigencies is a coward or is somehow foolish?

AwakenedLands said:
Apple hired the officer, not the mall. The store was not open at 7am when the smash and grab occurred. The robbers broke through the glass in front. The officer was inside the store. The criminals pulled their guns out first. Shots were fired. One gunman was shot in the butt. The other was shot in the head. Since the guy shot in the head was in the car when he died, my guess is the guard had nothing else to aim at.

One of the handguns used was stolen, which irks me. If you are going to own a gun, and I have several, lock them up.
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Many (probably the majority of) guns used in crime are either stolen, or purchased illegally. Based on this info, it's pretty obvious that the guard had no choice but to return fire.
 
Lord Blackadder said:
To you it's the same as shooting vermin, or catching mice in a trap and throwing the bodies in the garbage. I think that's a shocking outlook.
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Vermin fits. What would you call them?
Lord Blackadder said:
That's an oversimplification if I ever heard one.

A store is smashed up, a person is dead, two are in prison, a guard just narrowly avoided being killed. While the criminals may have ultimately been stopped this is hardly something to celebrate over. This isn't a movie, comic book or video game. Yet some of the people posting here are filled with glee over this.
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I think the point is that many other people in this thread are blaming the guard for all that. While the people you are against are blaming the criminals.
 
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