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Attempted Apple Store Holdup Goes Bad: Suspect Killed

The "shot to the head" portion sounds a bit raw...
Still, if they attacked him first, they deserve to be punished. By being shot in the head? I don't know...
 
misterjoey said:
Security officers are not cops. It is disrespectful to call them rent-a-cops. They are real people, with a real job, that provide real services.
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Except that some of them are real police officers trying to make ends meet by working security jobs when off duty. That is where the rent-a-cop term came from and it should not be seen as an insult, but as a sad fact that we tend to underpay our civil servants, contrary to popular belief. As for regular security guards, I agree. Just people trying to make a living and hopefully well trained for the bull they must deal with every day.
 
If some armed dirtbag breaks through my window to steal my stuff and threaten the safety of my family, he gets to say hello to my little friend: the classic American Smith & Wesson .357 magnum revolver (3" barrel).

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That's just the way it is. And should be.
 
dmx said:
Not that the guy "deserves" our sympathy... but you have to look at this from a human perspective.

Yes - the guy was a criminal. No excuses for what he was attempting to do in the robbery.

But for those saying the guy deserved to be shot or are "happy" he died - please, think about what you are saying.

I'm not saying the guy that died was a good guy. I'm glad the security personnel are OK, and was not the one who died. I'm sure the security personnel's actions were justifiable. But he had a family. He has parents who are suffering immensely right now. He may have a child who will grow up without a father.

There is no reason to celebrate the death of any person - even if they were a criminal.
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You are right that we should not celebrate anyones death. But if anyone is crying over his, including his parents, girlfriend or wife and any child that might be involved I say that he really did not care about their feelings at all. If he did he would not have risked what he did and he would not be stupid enough to risk not being their for them. The only person to blame for him not being their is himself and although I think it is sad, I still say he is responsible for their feelings.
 
Bang! You're Dead!

If, as the report notes, 40 shots were exchanged it may be assumed that the bad guys had guns and were using them against the mall cop. That being the case, it's self-defense and you don't ***** foot around...go for the head shot and go home to your family that night.
 
maxmiles said:
OMG.. I'm with Felt. "Security Guards" shouldn't carry guns, and if they do there should be training and good sense that goes into using it. Shooting the suspects in the head is criminal.
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What makes you think the guard had no training? That's a rather silly assumption to make. I honestly can't imagine any security company being willing to arm their guards without any sort of training... the financial liability would be ridiculous.

The criminal activity started with the robbery. The criminals were the robbers, and when they started shooting at the security guard, they became attempted murderers.

Look at this from the point of view of the guard... he's walking around the mall, like he does once or twice an hour, 5 nights a week... and when he gets to the Apple store, it's HOLY CRAP THERE ARE PEOPLE TRYING TO BREAK IN and then bullets start flying towards him.

He's got his own gun, so DAMN STRAIGHT he shoots back. So would you, assuming you didn't just piss yourself and quiver in fear.
 
mrkramer said:
I'm going to call BS on this
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You're conflating deaths with deterrence, and with injury. ~97% of the time, guns are used to deter crimes without shooting. Just showing the thing is enough to persuade the criminal to stop. Note: it only works if you have a gun. Of those 3% where shots are fired, most of those do not result in hits (note in the lead story, 40 shots were fired but only 2 made contact). Of those hits, less than 10% are fatal. Those rough calculations (sorry, don't have all the exact percentages handy) take your percentage under ~0.25% of all deaths.

This is a recurring problem with having a sane discussion on the subject: so many people think that to protect yourself with a gun you actually have to kill someone, which is unmitigated nonsense.

ETA: That's why I wrote the bit "about 97% of the time no shooting is required" which you quoted but somehow missed.
 
Mattie Num Nums said:
Thing that gets me with all these gun control fanatics is that they don't realize no matter what bad people are going to get the equipment they need to continue committing crimes. Guns don't kill people, people kill people. Its about damn time we as Americans and Humans start taking responsibility for our own actions instead of always blaming it on something else.
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I know it's easy to concentrate on "fanatics" because it makes your side of an argument that much easier. But stop being intellectually lazy. It really helps no one.

People with guns kill people.
People in cars kill people.
Laws can protect people.
Laws for owning and using firearms, and laws for driving cars can save lives.

Americans seem to polarize on gun control. It's not so black and white.
 
LagunaSol said:
If some armed dirtbag breaks through my window to steal my stuff and threaten the safety of my family, he gets to say hello to my little friend: the classic American Smith & Wesson .357 magnum revolver (3" barrel).

That's just the way it is. And should be.
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There are over 200 million guns in America. You have one (or several) of them. If some "armed dirtbag" breaks in you stand a good chance of being shot yourself. And it's not a game.

hindmost said:
If, as the report notes, 40 shots were exchanged it may be assumed that the bad guys had guns and were using them against the mall cop. That being the case, it's self-defense and you don't ***** foot around...go for the head shot and go home to your family that night.
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Except that police are never "trained to go for the head shot". More video game language...

Judo said:
Americans seem to polarize on gun control. It's not so black and white.
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I agree. Too many people on both sides of the debate hold extreme views, informed by ignorance.
 
Chopper9 said:
What kind of idiot mall cop would get into a shootout with a robber and put the lives of civilians at risk? Guess that’s why he's a security guard and not a police officer.
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It was 7 a.m. How many civilians do you think were around at that time? Dam few because that's when the gun happy criminals chose to break glass and make a lot of noise. Finally he was a police officer, so your screwy thinking loses on all points.
 
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Ieo said:
I don't think a mall cop should be carrying a ****ing firearm, nor should he be going for a killing shot- shoulder/leg at MOST.
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So, you know for a fact what the guy was aiming for, what the range was, what sort of weapon he was using (affects accuracy), and how good a marksman he was. Not to mention how much experience he had with real firefights as opposed to target shooting.

You really should be contributing to the news story with all that useful information! :)
 
Well I'm anti-gun in the situation where you can control distribution of guns (i.e., not in the USA!), but in my opinion if you bring a gun to the party you can't complain when someone else brings theirs too, and they're a better aim.

So instead of doing five years for robbery, one's dead and the other two are looking at ten to twenty for armed robbery and firing weapons, etc.

Still, maybe the thought of five years without a Mac is worse than death?!
 
maxmiles said:
OMG.. I'm with Felt. "Security Guards" shouldn't carry guns, and if they do there should be training and good sense that goes into using it. Shooting the suspects in the head is criminal.
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You, sir, win the award for most ignorant post.

If you had your way, then the security guard who was DOING HIS JOB would be dead, and the criminimals who were BREAKING THE LAW would have had no trouble in killing him.

The ignorance of some people makes me sick.
 
mattwolfmatt said:
I'm as pro gun rights as anyone, but this sounds like a problem for the security guard. Unless that guard's life was in danger, there was no reason to shoot anyone, especially in the head. The placement of that shot was no accident.

That being said, I'm sure there are a lot of facts we don't know. Innocent until proven guilty, of course.
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the robbers were armed. the article says 40 shots were exchanged, so undoubtedly, the robbers fired on the security guard as he approached. (speculation of course, but plausible and probable) naturally, the guard shot back. robber took a head shot, but #$%& him, too bad, that's what he gets for attempting an armed robbery against a store that has armed guards! hopefully this event will serve as a deterrent to future would-be robbers in the area.
 
antster94 said:
Seems unfair to kill someone for robbery. Yes they're breaking the law, but only deserve a prison sentence. Do you really really think someone should be shot and killed for attempting to steal a few laptops and smash a few windows? If you do then man you have issues.
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The guy wasn't killed for attempting to steal a laptop or for smashing windows.

He was killed because he took out his gun and shot at the security guard, who turned out to be a better shot. Or maybe just more lucky.

If the robber hadn't taken out his gun, he'd almost certainly still be alive.
 
Lord Blackadder said:
There are over 200 million guns in America. You have one (or several) of them. If some "armed dirtbag" breaks in you stand a good chance of being shot yourself. And it's not a game.
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Damn right it's not a game. And I'll do my best to shoot him before he can shoot me. What would you do, cower in the corner? Throw flower pots at him? Hide under the bed? Whatever. It's your life.
 
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