Sidebar Sidebar
Become a MacRumors Supporter for $50/year with no ads, ability to filter front page stories, and private forums.

Attempted Apple Store Holdup Goes Bad: Suspect Killed

A kid was playing black berry. Then a robber comes. The robbers slashed the kids' stomach so that the intestines went out.

You know what, I still hold the kid responsible. Why the hell did he play black berry on shady places.

Wait a minute. It's not shady. It's close to his school. He's just waiting for his mom that just passed him by. He's just out of luck. There isn't much he could have done.

Well he's out of luck. He's still responsible.

HOWEVER, I REGRET the kid's died. He didn't do anything wrong, besides not being good at martial arts.

Wait a minute, he did learn martial arts, and that's probably why the robber slash his stomach. Maybe the robbers can't stand being kicked and resort to knives. Something that government prevent our children from bringing.

He's not evil. With his kind death more people will be robbers. Why bother living a good life and died like vermin just because you do something as innocent as playing black berry in unsafe place.

Is there even a sign on the road saying the place in unsafe? You sort of have to know. You're responsible. If you don't think you're responsible, fine. You'll die.

But you're still responsible.

Flash forward:..

This burglars CHOSE to rob. The same way he's responsible. Guess what. This one, I DON'T regret.

And if 1 million of those burglars died so that one black berry kid live, it would have worth it.

As for GOP and anything, I don't know. Perhaps paying people for not breaking laws may become feasible that the world is getting richer. But that's not what's happening and if people choose to be a burglar anyway, let them die.
 
StoneyG said:
Wow, the 'e' word has been dropped. This guy wasn't Pol Pot, he was just some loser. SO odd to me that this kind of crap brings joy to some.
Click to expand...

To each his own.

When someone takes a loaded firearm into a robbery, with the intent to use it to end anothers life if nessary....yeh that is evil in my book. If they did this without firearms, the evil label would be a little much. However they were willing to take innocent lives for their own monitory gain.

What would you call it?

The only joy I feel is that the guard was not killed in the process.
 
tkingart said:
They never said the suspect pointed or started firing his gun, they merely stated he "produced a gun", that could also mean he "brandished one", like pulling a gun into view from your coat or pants to scare the Security Guard from intervening. But they did say the Security Guard opened fire. I assume if the thief pulled his gun out, aimed at the officer and began firing, they would have said that?

In any case the Security Guard broke the law when he gave pursuit of the vehicle leaving the scene of the crime, still shooting at it.
Click to expand...

I'll change the word "pointed" to something less specific (pick something), since we still don't have all the facts. The law (at least in the state of CA) states deadly force may be used when a reasonable person has perceived an imminent threat of serious injury or death (I might be paraphrasing, as I don't have the penal code in front of me - but the key wording is correct). That means the firearm doesn't necessarily need to be directly pointed at the guard. It also means the person threatened doesn't necessarily need to wait until it's pointed at them. It should be obvious that if the person waits for the firearm to be pointed at them, it could easily be too late. That's why training says you don't wait - if the firearm (or, it could be a knife, bat, or other weapon which could be used to apply deadly force) is used in a threatening manner you don't and shouldn't wait. As some other poster said, that's where you can end up being the one killed.

The suspect brought the weapon to the crime scene. It's at that point where they have made a decision to include deadly force as a possibility in the commission of the crime. (That's been repeated over and over in this thread, but it just, for some reason, seems beyond comprehension for some.)
 
Lord Blackadder said:
I'm not strictly against the principle of keeping firearms for self-defense. But your implication that there is no reasonable alternative to armed confrontation is absurd. The suggestion that I might be a coward because I am not ready for a gun battle is also insulting. I don't own anything that I need to risk my life to defend.
Click to expand...

Is your life worth defending? Or is the life of the guy shooting at you more valuable to you?
 
...

Come on, people! How i hate this hypocrisy! Those robbers _knew_ what may be the result if they go robbing _and_ what is going to happen if they use firearms!
In this world we have laws which work regardless of what we think is good or bad. One of them says : if you will use sword, then you will die from the sword too!

Another thing : head shot. This is just a pretext to judge that guard. It is extremely hard to hit with a bullet from pistol a moving target in a precise spot. Believe me. It seems that somebody want to turn the story to something like : "he arrested them, forced them to kneel and ruthlessly killed them in head"... pathetic and pitoyable.
 
Didnt the guard shoot someone in the head who was in a car driving away?
Seems a bit pointless if he did.
 
Well this thread just confirms for me- the USA is a great place to visit (been once, really want to go again) but when it comes down to it I just couldn't live there.

Like OllyW said- ~50 gun deaths in the UK per year, ~10,000 in the US. I'm glad my "mall cops" are unarmed, I'm glad that only special units of the police are armed. The homicide rate is about 5 times lower than the US. I can't believe the callousness of the comments on this thread rejoicing in the death of another human being- it was necessary but unfortunate. Even in prison the US executes around 50 people per year, in the UK that figure is 0 (and has been 0 since the 1950s).
 
Last edited by a moderator:
mattwolfmatt said:
I'm as pro gun rights as anyone, but this sounds like a problem for the security guard. Unless that guard's life was in danger, there was no reason to shoot anyone, especially in the head. The placement of that shot was no accident.

That being said, I'm sure there are a lot of facts we don't know. Innocent until proven guilty, of course.
Click to expand...

Bollocks; you come into a shop and attempt to hold it up then you deserve nothing less than a bullet between the eyes. I don't care what the excuses are - you broke the law.
 
iStudentUK said:
Well this thread just confirms for me- the USA is a great place to visit (been once, really want to go again) but when it comes down to it I just couldn't live there.

Like OllyW said- ~50 gun deaths in the UK per year, ~10,000 in the US. I'm glad my "mall cops" are unarmed, I'm glad that only special units of the police are armed. The homicide rate is about 5 times lower than the US. I can't believe the callousness of the comments on this thread rejoicing in the death of another human being- it was necessary but unfortunate. Even in prison the US executes around 50 people per year, in the UK that figure is 0 (and has been 0 since the 1950s)
Click to expand...

I'm an American and believe me when I tell you this H&K MP5N fella is the reason they crash our own airplanes into our buildings. His ignorance and arrogance are unfortunately rampant in this country and are the real reason everyone outside our borders hates us. I would hate us, too.

Cheers.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
SuperBrown said:
I'm an American and believe me when I tell you this H&K MP5N fella is the reason they crash our own airplanes into our buildings. His ignorance and arrogance are unfortunately rampant in this country and are the real reason everyone outside our borders hates us. I would hate us, too.

Cheers.
Click to expand...

I don't hate the US or Americans, that would make me a terrible person! Like I said I enjoyed visiting and have always wanted to go to New York and other places.

There are people in the UK who would love to see criminals shot and intruders shot, the difference is we don't let them arm themselves here! That's the big issue for me. Plus, we don't execute them later. We have our own set of issues people get worked up about- the EU being one. Some people take anti-EU to the level of racism and that is terrible.

As H&K MP5N so eloquently pointed out, people blew up our trains and buses as well. Other countries have been attacked to. Don't get yourself down, all of the West gets its fair share of hate!
 
Last edited by a moderator:
Wirelessly posted (Mozilla/5.0 (iPhone; U; CPU iPhone OS 4_2_1 like Mac OS X; en-us) AppleWebKit/533.17.9 (KHTML, like Gecko) Mobile/8C148)

He wasn't a mall cop. That mall has their own security guards. Apple hired private security due to the fact that they have been getting broke into. I live in that area and use to work at that store. The guard is a retired cop and said that one suspect pulled out their gun and they both exchanged fires. News said there was over 40 shells found. One guy shot in the head the other guy shot in the butt. Lol. That's actually funny. The butt boy and the girl took off to near by houses and asked someone to take him to the hospital. Cops came and got the girl and guy. The guy is 25 and the girl 21. Young stupid kids. The guard did an amazing job. Criminals need to learn from this. Apple does offer financing for their products. The iPad was to die for.
 
iStudentUK said:
Well this thread just confirms for me- the USA is a great place to visit (been once, really want to go again) but when it comes down to it I just couldn't live there.

Like OllyW said- ~50 gun deaths in the UK per year, ~10,000 in the US. I'm glad my "mall cops" are unarmed, I'm glad that only special units of the police are armed. The homicide rate is about 5 times lower than the US. I can't believe the callousness of the comments on this thread rejoicing in the death of another human being- it was necessary but unfortunate. Even in prison the US executes around 50 people per year, in the UK that figure is 0 (and has been 0 since the 1950s).
Click to expand...

What permits you to say that by having 0 executes is making your country *better*? Yes, the human life is precious. But you forget one dimension - people choose their destiny and unfortunately some of them can't live in our society (yes, even liberals admit that). You can put them in prison but that won't solve the problem. Even worse. Criminals know that the punishment will not be so severe and dare to do more.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
gr8tfly said:
I'll change the word "pointed" to something less specific (pick something), since we still don't have all the facts. The law (at least in the state of CA) states deadly force may be used when a reasonable person has perceived an imminent threat of serious injury or death (I might be paraphrasing, as I don't have the penal code in front of me - but the key wording is correct). That means the firearm doesn't necessarily need to be directly pointed at the guard. It also means the person threatened doesn't necessarily need to wait until it's pointed at them. It should be obvious that if the person waits for the firearm to be pointed at them, it could easily be too late. That's why training says you don't wait - if the firearm (or, it could be a knife, bat, or other weapon which could be used to apply deadly force) is used in a threatening manner you don't and shouldn't wait. As some other poster said, that's where you can end up being the one killed.

The suspect brought the weapon to the crime scene. It's at that point where they have made a decision to include deadly force as a possibility in the commission of the crime. (That's been repeated over and over in this thread, but it just, for some reason, seems beyond comprehension for some.)
Click to expand...

I agree the private security guard had enough reason when the suspect produced a weapon (in whatever manner), it's at that point the suspect played a very dangerous game, and someone died as a result. My thought is that when the criminals entered a vehicle fleeing the crime scene, the guard gave chase and fired at the moving vehicle (I do believe the headshot was just bad luck for the driver, the 21 year old girl (!!!) could have been shot to death too), it's at that point that the private security guard was overstepping his authority in running and gunning down the vehicle, that was very rogue, and is very dangerous to the public- it's lucky nobody else was hit in the crossfire.

There are a lot of missing details and there may have been cause for the security guard to give chase, though I'm fairly certain it's still reckless and illegal to give pursuit with gunfire. The car that hit the light pole could have hit pedestrians, or a car with a family in it. Again- I'm glad that it did not.

Sadly, these were some dumb kids playing with fire; if you live by the sword, you die by the sword. I do hope other irresponsible kids are taken back by this incident, and it scares them away from carrying guns. Though sad, this incident could save lives as kids will fear retribution and consequence. Too many kids just don't understand consequence.
 
usptact said:
What permits you to say that by having 0 executes is making your country *better*? Yes, the human life is precious. But you forget one dimension - people choose their destiny and unfortunately some of them can't live in our society (yes, even liberals admit that). You can put them in prison but that won't solve the problem. Even worse. Criminals know that the punishment will not be so severe and dare to do more.
Click to expand...
Killing them quite obviously does not help to make things better, otherwise you would not have such an obscene murder rate or the world's highest prison population.
 
usptact said:
Yes, the human life is precious. But you forget one dimension - people choose their destiny and unfortunately some of them can't live in our society (yes, even liberals admit that).
Click to expand...

So it is down to a security guard as to who should be in society? Your attitude is disgusting.
 
skunk said:
Killing them quite obviously does not help to make things better, otherwise you would not have such an obscene murder rate or the world's highest prison population.
Click to expand...

People looking at the U.S. from abroad are mistaken in believing that Americans stand united. American's in fact stand quite divided. My Grandmother (God rest her soul) believed this country would go through another revolution, and there are growing numbers in militias. If we ever did experience another revolution, rest assured there will be those justifying shooting people, because the other person was carrying a gun.
 
Many Americans, to judge from the bloodthirsty fruitloops in this thread, seem to believe that due process comes from the barrel of a gun.
 
skunk said:
Killing them quite obviously does not help to make things better, otherwise you would not have such an obscene murder rate or the world's highest prison population.
Click to expand...

I quite disagree. When law is functional and is applied, then people will fear to do bad. If we are just talking about humanities, "rights" (which grow as mushrooms after the rain) etc, then we are there where we are. Else there is a feeling of "freedom" to do whatever one wants to... that is more dangerous than arms because of damage which is not just a murder!

By the way, that "freedom" is a result why US prisons are full : drugs, pre marital sex, immorality, movies etc .. these are ways how to kill the nation. This is where spiritual dimension comes in. We may deny it but it doesn't disappear just because we do that.

Read the Romans chapter 1 verses 21 - 31 from your Bible and you will see what i mean in reality.
 
Suspects Were Armed: "40 shots exchanged"

The guard was not defending the property, he was defending his life - the article says that 40 shots were "exchanged," meaning the robbers had weapons. That is not excessive at all. They deserved what they got, but too bad he didn't get them all. Questioning mall cops with guns? Looks like they need them, when the robbers show up armed.
Clarence
 
imacdaddy757 said:
The guard was not defending the property, he was defending his life - the article says that 40 shots were "exchanged," meaning the robbers had weapons.
Click to expand...

Defending his life from fleeing robbers? He had done his job and should not have fired as they were driving off. What good has that done?
 
Wirelessly posted (Mozilla/5.0 (iPhone; U; CPU iPhone OS 4_3_1 like Mac OS X; en-us) AppleWebKit/533.17.9 (KHTML, like Gecko) Version/5.0.2 Mobile/8G4 Safari/6533.18.5)

To all you foreign people bashing gun crimes here and how your country is so much better. It's not the wild west here. We have I think 260m people living here compared to England's 50m so of course that is misleading figures. also saying you have no gun crime because you have no guns is extremely naive. Well look at your percentage of all homicides to your population and take ours. It probably won't be that far off. Also take into account your stabbings and "bricking" people in the head. I have seen your "Stanley" knifed that have the matches in between that make it so the wound doesn't heal. No country is perfect we have shootings you have lots of stabbings.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Register on MacRumors! This sidebar will go away, and you'll see fewer ads.
Top Bottom
Back