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Attempted Apple Store Holdup Goes Bad: Suspect Killed
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Shot in the head for banging the store window?!?!
This guard should be fired for killing a burgler when the guard or any other people not even were threaten. What kind of misuse of authority is this?
This guard should be fired for killing a burgler when the guard or any other people not even were threaten. What kind of misuse of authority is this?
Wait what?
Like you're off to the movies? Going shopping?
Keys, check.
Wallet, check
Glocke (or whatever you are "packing"), check
iPad, check
50 round box of ammo, err, check.
Jeesus. Planet You Es Ei.
I don't feel sorry for the thieves, alive or dead. Actually, while I'm not glad someone died, I am glad that, out of it, some young kid might think twice before trying something equally as dumb.
Crime does not pay and the sooner these kids GET THAT MESSAGE, the sooner we'll all live more harmoniously.
If you mess with the bull, you get the horns.
Crime does not pay and the sooner these kids GET THAT MESSAGE, the sooner we'll all live more harmoniously.
If you mess with the bull, you get the horns.
You posted late, didn't see the UPDATE? There was a hail of bullets exchanged between THEM and HIM (40). Something tells me he was out-numbered and just did what he had to do to stay alive. Think, man, think.
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If 40 shots were "exchanged" it means the robbers were firing at the guard at the same time. You and a number of others keep assuming that the robbers didn't fire at all. If they were firing as they were driving off, you can be sure as heck that the guard will fire back.
Police officers will fire on anyone producing a gun. Pretty standard practice and it has resulted in false positives. However, 40 shots were "exchanged" so you can't assume they weren't firing at him as they were leaving the scene of the crime.
Anyone who has actually read the story instead of mindlessly embarking on this online US-bashing fiasco of a forum might just have noticed that the guy who died actually died when he crashed the car during the escape.
The exchange of bullets was regrettable, but the guard cannot be castigated for defending himself.
Yes, according to reports, some bullets did make contact, but we're talking about armed robbery here (the robbers were armed, even if they weren't performing theft at gunpoint). This was not just a spot of casual shoplifting.
If the robbers were carrying loaded guns, it's a reasonably fair assumption that the weapons weren't just there to accessorise their outfits.
The exchange of bullets was regrettable, but the guard cannot be castigated for defending himself.
Yes, according to reports, some bullets did make contact, but we're talking about armed robbery here (the robbers were armed, even if they weren't performing theft at gunpoint). This was not just a spot of casual shoplifting.
If the robbers were carrying loaded guns, it's a reasonably fair assumption that the weapons weren't just there to accessorise their outfits.
That's not going to prevent anyone not shooting back if they're fired on, regardless of mental health. 40 shots were "exchanged," remember! It's not going to change the police's standard practice of firing on anyone producing a gun "because they feared for their lives." Meanwhile, the bad guys will continue to carry firearms without permit and without undergoing mental evaluation.
We should get you a "jump to conclusions" mat with logic like that. I guess being in a moving car negates the shooting at someone part right? Heck, I guess they were not a threat to anyone at that point right?
I often find people driving away from crime scenes with guns blazing to be the least dangerous people to society.
I read the linked articles and can only shake my head at some of these ignorant and unrealistic posts on here. Did those immediately criticizing the security guard's actions even read the stories?
The burglary suspects were armed.
Gunshots were exchanged.
The security guard was a retired law enforcement officer.
Furthermore...
The shot placement is wholly irrelevant as police, and armed security guards, are trained to shoot "center mass" because you have a better chance to hit your target.
Police and guards are trained to shoot to "eliminate the threat" not to "kill" as some genius CCW holder posing as some authority stated early on. If the threat happens to die, becomes incapacitated, or surrenders is irrelevant. The situation justifying the use of deadly force has ended.
The police and possibly along with the DA's office will investigate the shooting to determine if the use of force was justified. Sure sounds like it at the moment. Until such time there is credible information the security guard actually did something wrong I say he deserves our gratitude and concern.
Some of you need to put your game controllers down and go outside into the real world sometime. The real world can get real serious, real fast and good people really die at the hands of criminals out here.
The burglary suspects were armed.
Gunshots were exchanged.
The security guard was a retired law enforcement officer.
Furthermore...
The shot placement is wholly irrelevant as police, and armed security guards, are trained to shoot "center mass" because you have a better chance to hit your target.
Police and guards are trained to shoot to "eliminate the threat" not to "kill" as some genius CCW holder posing as some authority stated early on. If the threat happens to die, becomes incapacitated, or surrenders is irrelevant. The situation justifying the use of deadly force has ended.
The police and possibly along with the DA's office will investigate the shooting to determine if the use of force was justified. Sure sounds like it at the moment. Until such time there is credible information the security guard actually did something wrong I say he deserves our gratitude and concern.
Some of you need to put your game controllers down and go outside into the real world sometime. The real world can get real serious, real fast and good people really die at the hands of criminals out here.
Homicide rates (all per 100,000 people) (<- ie population doesn't matter!)
USA = 5.0
Turkmenistan = 4.1
Yemen = 4.0
Palestine = 3.9
Cambodia = 3.2
Iran = 2.9
UK = 1.5
France = 1.5
Germany = 0.9
Iceland = 0
Population of US ~300million, UK ~60million. So US has 5 times as many people.
Gun deaths per year US ~10,000, UK ~ 50. So US has 200 times as many gun deaths. Yet 5 times the population.
The UK has stabbings, I agree. It is much more common to see stabbings in the news than shootings. However, I'd much rather see crimes being committed with knives than guns.
You stand more chance of winning the National Lottery jackpot than being killed by a gun in the UK.
Are you trying to reimagine the chain of events to fit your viewpoint? In every account of the chain of events I have read the thieves continued to fire at the guard as they were fleeing.
There was a wheel woman and the thieves continuously shot at the guard as they got in the get away car and drove off. You make it sound like the thieves were fleeing w/o gun fire and the guard took a cheap shot.
Last I checked self defense is a legitimate legal defense in every court in the nation. Further, if the thief had just put his hands up rather than brandished his weapon he would still be alive and ready to be arraigned this morning.
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Yes we are bashing gun crimes because it sickens us to see people defending something so absurd. Peoples lives are being taken here. It has nothing to do with which country is better.
Foreign? It's the internet... i.e. international. There are no foreigners here.
Population is 62m/307m so 5x the population size.
648 homicides total in the UK in 2008/2009
16,277 homicides total in the US in 2008.
25x greater
12,632 gun homicides in the US in 2007.
50 gun homicides in England & Wales in 2005/2006
253x greater
"The overall homicide rates per 100,000 (regardless of weapon type) reported by the United Nations for 1999 were 4.55 for the U.S. and 1.45 in England and Wales."
How can you deny these figures?
Sorry some of the figures are outdated and I haven't found data that includes Scotland and Northern Ireland for UK gun homicides but do i need them to prove the point?
Stabbings are much rarer than you think. Bricking people, I'm sure it happens but it's incredibly rare, especially to cause death by it. The Stanley knife? Never heard of that. Either way, throwing bricks and only being able to cause damage within arms reach is less lethal than a gun.
You need to check your facts before posting.
Wow... I'm really looking forward to hearing back from Dobbsy on this.
Though I doubt we will... and it was all yellow!
Found something else interesting. In 2008-2009 the UK police were authorised to deploy firearms officers was around 19,000. How many times was the use of firearms permitted? 4. The UK police shoot an average of 3 people per year.
http://tna.europarchive.org/2010041...s/Police-firearms-2008-092835.pdf?view=Binary
The US police shoot around 400 a year.
http://www.policeone.com/legal/articles/2059075-Reviewing-and-analyzing-police-use-of-deadly-force/
From the stats above, UK criminals shoot 50 people a year, US police shoot 400. Accounting for a 5 fold population difference that is 5:8. Obviously the US police and UK criminals don't shoot random people, but from the pure statistics you are more likely to be shot by a police officer in the US than you are by a criminal in the UK.
The guard would have put himself in less danger if he had found cover instead of firing back. If it is hand guns being used the chances are the guard got lucky with the head shot. The criminals could have equally got lucky.
I personally think the lonesome guard was stupid to approach three burglars.
"Because of a series of thefts, Apple now places armed security guards inside all its stores."
No wonder the criminals brought weapons.
For Queen and Country!
What a great fact that is... We should put that on the tourism marketing.
If you compare crimes instead of murders, the UK has the highest crime rate in Europe and at one time, the world. So don't pretend your doo doo don't stink.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2007/feb/06/ukcrime.prisonsandprobation
http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2007/feb/06/ukcrime.prisonsandprobation
Hey bro... Chill man. We were talking about gun crime. We're sorry if it upsets you but these are the facts. Be a part of the solution and not the problem... Leave the hate at home!
Of course we have more reported minor stuff... The police have to do something with all this spare time they have not dealing with gun related crime.
Anyways... I feel safer around our criminals then US Police officers after all these daunting stats.
That's right blame the security guard... the guy who's job it is to secure the store. He should have just cowered in the corner. From your perspective the thieves were smart to bring guns to rob the store b/c the guard would have them.
But by your very own logic, you prove your flawed logic. If the thieves did not bring guns they would not have been shot at. The guard would have made a citizen's arrest and called the cops.
Yes, I said above we have stabbings etc. The crime rate is higher in the UK than most of Europe. It is a problem. I'm just pointing out that murder/guns are a big problem for the USA.
If you buy ten lottery tickets in a year, then your chances are about equal in that year. Which should persuade anyone not to live in fear of being killed by a gun, and not to buy any lottery tickets.
But in the first case, there are very easy ways to improve your chances: Most important, don't carry a gun while committing a crime. Just as people keeping a gun for protection are more likely to hurt themselves or someone else than protecting themselves, criminals using guns dramatically increase their chances to be killed. As in this case; the dead suspect would still be alive and quite possible could have escaped if he had just run away instead of starting to shoot.
But that is the problem with stupid criminals: They _don't_ know. They can't imagine the consequences of what they are doing. They are just stupid. There were three people; instead of robbing the store, they could have got up early, get into the queue, buy two iPads each, sell them on eBay for profit. Annoying, but legal, good profit, and they would still be alive. If they had been clever.
Actually, one report said that two nearby police stations had a shift change just when this happened, so both the old shift and new shift could attend the crime scene. Didn't realise that, but it seems the criminals had bad timing as well. Lots of things to learn here for any criminal: Don't bring guns. Don't commit serious crimes during police shift change.
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