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ATV4 - a real disappointment.

Overall, I like mine. Brings the Apple TV some long awaited features. But there are definitely a few glaring functionality omissions that I don't understand how this could have shipped without addressing. Especially for a device that doesn't bring much of anything radically new to the streaming box market (yet).

All of my personal gripes about Apple seem to fall under services. I really enjoy the hardware and software of their products but the services never really feel complete. Mostly half-assed that don't get much better over time. The services side of the business fall under Eddy Cue, whom I've never personally been a fan of. Personally, I think replacing Eddy might be something Apple should consider.
 
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urkel said:
But don't we always tend so say "it will get better"? This isn't an attack, but it is odd how Apple's "free pass" from criticism works. For example, Photos.app. We get this "revolutionary" new App thats crippled and so we start imagining the future (brushes, batch edits, etc) and making excuses for its shortcomings because "of course they'll do gradual updates". But months and years later then the software is still crippled. So that amazing stage demo turns out to be a beta product that never seems to get an Apple-worthy release..

Time Machine
Time Capsule
Apple TV (previous models)
Airport software
iTunes
iMovie
Apple keyboard
Mac Pro
Better headphones
Apple Watch
HomeKit
etc

I'm not slamming the AppleTV. I'm buying one today because I'm excited regardless of flaws. But still... sometimes it does test your loyalty to keep waiting for nothing.
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I see what you're saying, man.

I'm not an Apple slave - but switching from PCs to Macs five years ago was a genuine "Eureka!!!" moment for me, and the iPod, iPhone and iPad are all fabulous products that have made my everyday life that little bit nicer. In short, Apple have a great deal of goodwill in the bank with me, and I'm not going to reverse my position in a heartbeat just because [x, y, z] aren't perfect.

That said, there are certainly things that Apple have had plenty of time to get right and haven't. In my opinion, iTunes is an abomination - its inflexibility, its stubbornness... urrrgh, don't get me started - and it was literally only three days ago that I finally admitted defeat. I will no longer use it to manage my media. I don't care what else I use, so long as it isn't iTunes.

Yep, the Time Capsule is an abortion too - particularly when I think about the agony I've been through trying to use it in conjunction with iTunes (don't... just don't...).

Particularly pertinent to this thread, yep, the Apple TV has never become what it ought to have become. I crossed my fingers that this generation might be the one to turn it around, and it may prove to be yet - the jury's out, at the moment.

The one that's caused me the biggest problems, lately, has been OS X. Yosemite was a piece of [!!!!] that made using my not-particularly-old MBP into a chore. Things are better since El Capitan, I am happy to report.


I've always got on fine with the other things that you've mentioned (at least, those that I've used). But - bottom line? - I am certainly not delusional about Apple's shortcomings. I just like to believe that the Steve Jobs spirit for making highly sophisticated products, which are both easy and delightful to use, is still there somewhere...
 
I have seen so many negative threads here. And I've got to ask... exactly what were you expecting? Its a streaming box like all the other streaming box. They are all limited the same way: By the content owners.
 
2010mini said:
I have seen so many negative threads here. And I've got to ask... exactly what were you expecting? Its a streaming box like all the other streaming box. They are all limited the same way: By the content owners.
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Yes and no, mate. Of course, Apple can't be expected to present us with apps and channels that other people haven't programmed or licensed yet - but when Apple make decisions about how the Apple TV can and can't be used to the detriment of the consumer's experience, they need to shoulder some of the responsibility. I hope you'll excuse me, but I take particular issue with your comment that it's "like all the other" streaming boxes - all of the streaming boxes that I've ever owned allow for local media storage, and the Apple TV doesn't do that. If it did, I'd buy one for every television in my house.

And I'm not altogether down on the new Apple TV in the slighest. I've already said that I think it'll be pretty great, a year from now.
 
2010mini said:
I have seen so many negative threads here. And I've got to ask... exactly what were you expecting? Its a streaming box like all the other streaming box. They are all limited the same way: By the content owners.
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What content owners run the Radio App for local stations and the Podcast App?
 
RhythmAndBlues said:
Yes and no, mate. Of course, Apple can't be expected to present us with apps and channels that other people haven't programmed or licensed yet - but when Apple make decisions about how the Apple TV can and can't be used to the detriment of the consumer's experience, they need to shoulder some of the responsibility. I hope you'll excuse me, but I take particular issue with your comment that it's "like all the other" streaming boxes - all of the streaming boxes that I've ever owned allow for local media storage, and the Apple TV doesn't do that. If it did, I'd buy one for every television in my house.

And I'm not altogether down on the new Apple TV in the slighest. I've already said that I think it'll be pretty great, a year from now.
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I hear you. But Steve Jobs himself was the one that started the ATV down the road of no local storage management with the ATV2. That was years ago and it is never coming back.
 
2010mini said:
I hear you. But Steve Jobs himself was the one that started the ATV down the road of no local storage management with the ATV2. That was years ago and it is never coming back.
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Absolutely right. And I agree that it will likely never return.
 
Another disappointed long time Apple fan here.. this is the most bizarre new product in a long time.. apart from processing power this is a complete backwards step in every other direction..

Loss of hardware ports
Loss of iOS Remote
Loss of base apps that were included with the previous release (podcasts etc..)
Loss of bluetooth support for keyboard.

Half arsed Siri integration with no local searching..
No fast scrolling on the weird new remote which looks like it has been designed upside down.
Dreadful scrolling / searching inputting with horrible remote..
Software is just a basic redesign.. Have they really been working on this for the past 3 years? Someone needs firing..where is the ability to organise your apps into folders - they just all sit there in one big long list (like the last time) - that's basic stuff...

Biggest mystery given that it's supposed to be the future of TV is YOU CAN'T GET TV ON IT. I can on the Xbox One.

It's just the same old steaming device except a bit worse - it's not going to change TV until you can get TV through it.. give it the ability to pass through your Sky or Cable box like the PS4 and Xbox can and then you can start changing something.. At the moment I've still got to have a Sky box, an Xbox to watch TV. At the moment I don't even need to have an Apple TV to watch TV (because you can't) - not sure how that is ever going to change the face or be the future of TV..

utterly bizarre.. it's just starting to look not too good on the heals of the Watch..
 
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profmatt said:
I've been thinking that a lot recently. Somebody mentioned that the connecty wire thingy (I've lost touch with what all these things are called) is still white, yet the remote and the ATV itself are black. They were wishing for a black one. Jobs would have given them one. He would immediately have noticed the mismatch and corrected it way before it got to market. Those were the kinds of details he obsessed about.
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Just like the black charger cables and headphones that came with the black 3G, 3GS , 4 and 4S right...
 
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Dunkrag said:
Another disappointed long time Apple fan here.. this is the most bizarre new product in a long time.. apart from processing power this is a complete backwards step in every other direction..

Loss of hardware ports
Loss of iOS Remote
Loss of base apps that were included with the previous release (podcasts etc..)
Loss of bluetooth support for keyboard.

Half arsed Siri integration with no local searching..
No fast scrolling on the weird new remote which looks like it has been designed upside down.
Dreadful scrolling / searching inputting with horrible remote..
Software is just a basic redesign.. Have they really been working on this for the past 3 years? Someone needs firing..where is the ability to organise your apps into folders - they just all sit there in one big long list (like the last time) - that's basic stuff...

Biggest mystery given that it's supposed to be the future of TV is YOU CAN'T GET TV ON IT. I can on the Xbox One.

It's just the same old steaming device except a bit worse - it's not going to change TV until you can get TV through it.. give it the ability to pass through your Sky or Cable box like the PS4 and Xbox can and then you can start changing something.. At the moment I've still got to have a Sky box, an Xbox to watch TV. At the moment I don't even need to have an Apple TV to watch TV (because you can't) - not sure how that is ever going to change the face or be the future of TV..

utterly bizarre.. it's just starting to look not too good on the heals of the Watch..
Click to expand...


Other than the lack of the optical out most of these things can and will most likely be ironed out. The remote, podcasts and keyboard support are easily added in an update and considering Apple still pushes podcasts it's unlikely to drop it completely on the Apple TV. Not to mention that many complaints people have with the Apple TV at the moment are with things Apple never said would be there.

Siri is also getting expanded and improved on in the coming months, we already know Apple is improving it for their own services and opening up the api to developers.

You can change the sensitivity of the remote so that it scrolls further with each fast swipe. And again, they could also add a tap and hold fast scroll option. Submit a request to Apple, they do listen.

I don't know how your getting your sky box to pass through your PS4, I can't on mine so I wouldn't mind knowing how to do it.

The trouble is, as with many Apple launches, many of the complaints people have can and will be fixed in software updates. Really it boils down to, don't buy into an Apple 1.0 release until it's had an update or two if you don't like waiting for things.

We had to wait until the iPhone 3G until it really took shape, the iPad wasn't brilliant until the iPad 2, the Apple Watch was ok but limited until Watch OS 2.0. And while this might be the Apple TV 4, it's very much Apple TV 1.0 as it's an entirely new platform. The improvements will come, just as they always do.
 
2010mini said:
I have seen so many negative threads here. And I've got to ask... exactly what were you expecting? Its a streaming box like all the other streaming box.
Click to expand...
To ask "what were you expecting" on an Apple product is to ignore the very thing that makes Apple products so desirable. A premium product.

Profits (Cook) and Design (Ive) are nice for those kind of fans, but what makes Apple products stand out for others is the "Experience". And (of Apple products in general) the whole "It Just Works" experience does seem to have dropped down a few levels.

For this product specifically, the excitement of a new shiny Apple product was quickly deflated by that entire tedious setup process. -- Login here. Download this. Login again. Where's that app? Wait, it won't pair? Login again. -- And once you finally get things to look like your old AppleTV then you realize the limitations of Siri, Touchpads, Apps and On-Screen Keyboards..

I'm glad this upgrade exists and all, but considering how tight the Apple ecosystem is (and how long delayed the :apple:TV4 is) then its just hard to make excuses for not receiving a finished product.
 
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urkel said:
To ask "what were you expecting" on an Apple product is to ignore the very thing that makes Apple products so desirable. A premium product.

Profits (Cook) and Design (Ive) are nice for those kind of fans, but what makes Apple products stand out for others is the "Experience". And (of Apple products in general) the whole "It Just Works" experience does seem to have dropped down a few levels.

For this product specifically, the excitement of a new shiny Apple product was quickly deflated by that entire tedious setup process. -- Login here. Download this. Login again. Where's that app? Wait, it won't pair? Login again. -- And once you finally get things to look like your old AppleTV then you realize the limitations of Siri, Touchpads, Apps and On-Screen Keyboards..

I'm glad this product exists and all, but considering how tight the Apple ecosystem is (and how long delayed the :apple:TV4 is) then its just hard to make excuses for not receiving a finished product.
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Maybe I'm in a minority, but I love the remote. I find the touch pad to be a much more fluid way of interacting with the interface. As for logging into things, what don't you need to log-in with these days. I had the exact same issue with my Fire TV, log-in, download, log-in, download, log-in and so on and so on. It's hardly Apple specific.

I do think they should have kept the old layout for the on-screen keyboard though, I'm less than enthused about the new one.
 
LiquidRadio said:
No 4K (I didn't care, until I excitedly received the ATV4 this morning and the other major faults showed themselves.)

Siri is almost useless. It offers just a small selection of films/TV, with no option to switch to a full catalogue. Full cat. requires a main search which can only be done using the 'good' ol' fashioned, slow 'letter scanning' with the remote. No dictation for search boxes. It can't even search shared libraries. Essentially, all the options which would have made Siri useful on the ATV are missing.

The remote is improved, but that's hardly saying much. It's too small so easily lost and still not user friendly; hence the next drawback being even more irritating:

No Remote App compatibility. Sure it'll come, but to miss launch day is unbelievable and each day without it is a complete bugger up.

iOSTV is just a facelift of the previous software. It looks nice, and I knew it wasn't wildly new from previews but the other shortcomings make this even more obvious and it starts to feel like a rip off.

So few apps available on release, especially in the UK. They've been developing this for a long time. How difficult would it have been to have the essential apps ready?

I could go on. And on. (And on.)

If I were really strapped for cash I'd send it back. Thankfully I'm disgustingly rich and don't need to (ok, ok, that's a lie. I'm grateful to be comfortable, and tragic enough to keep hold of what is pretty much a completely useless box of junk in the hope Apple will develop it into something worth bothering with. Moreover I've bought tonnes of films, music and TV shows from Apple and want to be able to watch them, but still really pissed I wasted £170 on this.)

I'm not one of the catastrophists; attacking Apple with every new release while continuing to buy their products. I loved them, until perhaps a year ago. Apple Music, which mucked up my much loved music library and now ATV4 have really let me down, and I'm sure millions of others too. For the first time I'm investigating other options for my music library (Plex looks great) and will be using Amazon Fire TV for a while, which until now was a pretty much unused gift. On trying it out more today, it's miles ahead of ATV. So annoying, and sad.

Wow. I've ranted. Develop Apple, develop like the wiiiind!
Click to expand...
I have both the new ATV and Amazon Fire TV.

Amazon Fire is better.
 
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deaglecat said:
Briefly... why ?
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Honestly, taking the App Store out of the equation (its pretty empty in the UK now anyway), I don't see a single thing that ATV does better. I can air play to the Amazon, I have a pile of useful apps including Kodi, voice search is better. 4K (on the new version). It interfaces to my macs to play all my media files. It's a much older device and ATV doesn't do anything better.

When I first turned my ATV on I thought.... Oh-is that it.

Siri is next to useless.
The remote is debatable.
The screen and icons have just been iOS 7ised.
No podcasts.
And all the comments that others have made in this thread about its misgivings.

I don't buy the line...."it will get better". I SHOULD be better at release.

Apple are the largest tech company in the world and ATV4 is a minor step ahead. It's a unfinished product that is not really ready for prime time.
 
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My experience with the Apple TV can be described as dramatic but not disappointing. Upon unboxing the unit and plugging it in, the Apple TV took me directly to the step up screen to choose my language. However my remote control did not function for gestures or respond by pressing any of the buttons, so i tired charing it, but no luck!

The weird thing is to get it working I used my remote from third gen Apple TV and it functioned without a hitch, allowing me to complete the setup. I than proceeded to try pairing my 4th get Apple TV remote by holding down menu and the up volume key, it paired and worked. But I feel the remote still has issues and sometimes I have to point it directly near my Apple TV for it turn on. So I might have either a faulty remote or unit.

I find the touch pad very sensitive and touchy when you want to speed down your movie or TV episode list. I feel the remote is a hit and miss, and has still a few kinks to work out.

On the plus side I have learnt one cool thing though if you are watching a TV show when one episode finishes it plays the next automatically. my third gen never did that and it was quite annoying to keep manually playing them one by one!.

My only major grip is support for AV receivers, I have not contacted my Apple TV to my Yamaha HDMI receiver, but judging by the built in audio codecs there is not much benefit apart from 7ch surround sound.

There is much to like and hate with the new Apple TV, the lack of 4K is not a concern given there is little content out there and Ultra HD Blu Ray has yet to come out. However the time-lapse screen savers look amazing and will make you forget about the lack of 4K. The App store is also in its early days so game titles are only a select few at moment, but its definitely in the right direction, and will redefine the current Smart TV landscape.
 
Pagemakers said:
Honestly, taking the App Store out of the equation (its pretty empty in the UK now anyway), I don't see a single thing that ATV does better. I can air play to the Amazon, I have a pile of useful apps including Kodi, voice search is better. 4K (on the new version). It interfaces to my macs to play all my media files. It's a much older device and ATV doesn't do anything better.

When I first turned my ATV on I thought.... Oh-is that it.

Siri is next to useless.
The remote is debatable.
The screen and icons have just been iOS 7ised.
No podcasts.
And all the comments that others have made in this thread about its misgivings.

I don't buy the line...."it will get better". I SHOULD be better at release.

Apple are the largest tech company in the world and ATV4 is a minor step ahead. It's a unfinished product that is not really ready for prime time.
Click to expand...

Thanks - all fixable in software (except the 4K.. but let's no go there).

Remote just takes some getting used to. May be good, once they fix the awful hunt and peck character by character text input.

It (ATV) could be brilliant... it will get better. I just hope that it gets engineering resource within Apple (i.e. more than a hobby status).
 
I have misgivings about it - still debating whether to return mine.

However, thinking about it I feel my main grievance is that I feel slightly 'had'. If the ATV4 had simply carried on in the 'hobby' vein without the ludicrous 'saviour of television' launch fanfare AND it was £50 cheaper I think I'd actually be over the moon with it. Or at least happier :)

Cook and the rest of the sinister grinning mob went completely overboard on the ATV4 launch, even by their standards. It's better than the ATV3 (and so it should be), the remote is cool (its only a remote, people) but other than that... meh. And I can't believe how people are banging on about the bloody screensavers! A 5 minute novelty, nothing more.
 
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My biggest disappointment with AT4 is the lack of a keyboard option. I absolutely DETEST the "hunt and peck" data entry. I watch a lot of YouTube content and I've always used a bluetooth keyboard to type into search fields. That is a huge problem for me now. I still have my AT3 hooked up and continue to use it for YouTube.

I also don't like the fact that optical audio is gone. But, I remedied that by getting a new receiver. I was going to get one eventually so the AT4 simply pushed me over that edge. I like the simplicity of connections and use of the new HDMI switching receiver vs my old one.

Overall, I think Apple really could have done better with this product. It certainly feels very beta.

The new screen saver is nice though. LOL.
 
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le.bouch said:
However, thinking about it I feel my main grievance is that I feel slightly 'had'. If the ATV4 had simply carried on in the 'hobby' vein without the ludicrous 'saviour of television' launch fanfare AND it was £50 cheaper I think I'd actually be over the moon with it. Or at least happier :)

Cook and the rest of the sinister grinning mob went completely overboard on the ATV4 launch, even by their standards. It's better than the ATV3 (and so it should be), the remote is cool (its only a remote, people) but other than that... meh. And I can't believe how people are banging on about the bloody screensavers! A 5 minute novelty, nothing more.
Click to expand...

This is a problem with Apple's strategy in general. They did the same with the Apple Watch. They've overpromising and underdelivering. Their keynotes are like cult meetings. Many fanboys seem so brainwashed that they say things like, "oh, don't worry, it'll be better when the next software update is released". But how is that good enough? They should be better right now.

I'm not sure Tim Cook really learned much from the Maps debacle.
 
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