I've seen the release notes but I haven't seen anything in there to suggest that this problem is fixed in 10.6.3 (and no, I have no intention of installing beta OS software on my MP to find out for sure). You gotta keep in mind that in a big corporation like Apple, it takes time for issues like this to trickle down from tech support to the Apple engineers who can actually fix it & then the engineers have to wait for the bug to get prioritized and THEN they'll start working on it. My guess is that if they've heard about it at all yet, it's only been recently so the odds of seeing a fix in 10.6.3 seem kinda slim to me.
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Audio Decoding KILLS MacPro (2009) green factor
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I've seen the release notes but I haven't seen anything in there to suggest that this problem is fixed in 10.6.3 (and no, I have no intention of installing beta OS software on my MP to find out for sure). You gotta keep in mind that in a big corporation like Apple, it takes time for issues like this to trickle down from tech support to the Apple engineers who can actually fix it & then the engineers have to wait for the bug to get prioritized and THEN they'll start working on it. My guess is that if they've heard about it at all yet, it's only been recently so the odds of seeing a fix in 10.6.3 seem kinda slim to me.
It was a 2008, long before the '09's shipped. The reason was RAID and the sofware I needed to run. 17 HDD's, and VM wouldn't work with the software (Windows + OS X versions that worked together, written by the same developer).
The software could be solved by staying in Windows all the time, but when I figured in the cost of the external enclosures and cables, it just wasn't worth it.
HDD count is high for me (17 right now), PCIe slots were an issue as well. RAM, not so much, as it was an '08, but could be for a Quad '09.
I happen to use a Lian Li case (PC-V2010), and the rest of the parts are rather decent (workstation board, 1kW PSU, 4870, 2x Areca RAID cards <why the slot config is important to me>). Board can currently max out at 48GB DDR3 (can run ECC or non ECC).
Had nothing to do with "seen the light".seen the light eh? i wonder if the problems happen on an equivalent hackintosh build.
The primary reason of attempting the '08 Octad was that it was less expensive than the PC counterparts available at the time. I was also a little tired of MS, as Vista was a mess (pre SP1, and lack of driver support for 64bit version, which is what I needed for one of the software packages; NI's LabView). I wasn't willing to go buy a 64bit ed. of XP, and still have issues.I don't care about the name on the box. It's a tool, and what ever does the job I need with the best results and at an acceptable cost, wins.
im afraid that wont really help to replicate the problems we are seeing here. its only a known issue on the particular i7 spec xeons
well that all makes sense. in such a volatile market you have to swap and change all the time to what suits your needs and is what most efficient. have you tried win7 for your main OS? its much better then vista but it just seems too glamorous now, hardly productive at all. terrible UI.Had nothing to do with "seen the light".
I don't care about the name on the box. It's a tool, and what ever does the job I need with the best results and at an acceptable cost, wins.
I started using Win7 when MS released the Beta version (as a separate installation along with Vista SP1 at that time; much more stable than I expected), then the RTM, and finally, the Retail.
Vista is gone, and Win7-64 is my primary OS. Then comes Linux, and finally OS X as an experiment.
I started using Win7 when MS released the Beta version (as a separate installation along with Vista SP1 at that time; much more stable than I expected), then the RTM, and finally, the Retail.
Then comes Linux, and finally OS X as an experiment.
ahh righto - well its good that the M$ OS is finally usable and reliable enough for you! i daresay it would be appropriate for most others then
Not if the software they have isn't written for it.ahh righto - well its good that the M$ OS is finally usable and reliable enough for you! i daresay it would be appropriate for most others then
Not if the software they have isn't written for it.
true. hardly any software is written for win7 properly you would imagine. give it a year or two
hahaha. oh dear. how embarrassing for you
"im there" refers to a colloquial term meaning "i will join that" or "count me in".
hahaha
Facebook page
I had a stab at creating a Facebook presence for us, but am struggling with the nature of Facebook (not really my scene). It seems structured awkwardly for our purpose. On one side forbidding (subject to ban) making a personal profile, yet attempts to add pictures, documentation and links seem to force one to create a profile.
I'm sure this exercise would be better handled by someone who is better qualified than me. To that end, can we clarify the objective.
I have in mind:
- A consistent and low profile Facebook material maintainer (with no axe to grind).
- A clear description/definition of the issues.
- A clear declaration of the objective, I suggest:
(a) bring awareness/pressure to bear upon appropriate parties in Apple
(b) detail temporary compromises (eg. Fan Control)
(c) act as a repository for communications and technical insights into how to remedy
In all, a condensation and simplification of the state of the issues. And without bias or passion (but with sound arguments, logic, visualizations, reasoning).
But also a locus through which people can get a sense of comradeship, membership, brotherhood in the face of the task in hand.
I had a stab at creating a Facebook presence for us, but am struggling with the nature of Facebook (not really my scene). It seems structured awkwardly for our purpose. On one side forbidding (subject to ban) making a personal profile, yet attempts to add pictures, documentation and links seem to force one to create a profile.
I'm sure this exercise would be better handled by someone who is better qualified than me. To that end, can we clarify the objective.
I have in mind:
- A consistent and low profile Facebook material maintainer (with no axe to grind).
- A clear description/definition of the issues.
- A clear declaration of the objective, I suggest:
(a) bring awareness/pressure to bear upon appropriate parties in Apple
(b) detail temporary compromises (eg. Fan Control)
(c) act as a repository for communications and technical insights into how to remedy
In all, a condensation and simplification of the state of the issues. And without bias or passion (but with sound arguments, logic, visualizations, reasoning).
But also a locus through which people can get a sense of comradeship, membership, brotherhood in the face of the task in hand.
This thread needs to be cleaned up.
We need one post that clearly states the issue, and examples of how to test it on a forum members machine.
Also it would be nice to have a quick reference for the maximum temps that Apple and/or Intel list. Specifically for the CPU and power supply which seem to skyrocket when listening to a simple audio file.
We may need to start a new thread with just the info in the first post, and a reference link to this thread for those that want to read threw all 900+ posts.
We need one post that clearly states the issue, and examples of how to test it on a forum members machine.
Also it would be nice to have a quick reference for the maximum temps that Apple and/or Intel list. Specifically for the CPU and power supply which seem to skyrocket when listening to a simple audio file.
We may need to start a new thread with just the info in the first post, and a reference link to this thread for those that want to read threw all 900+ posts.
I was thinking that the Facebook site would encompass exactly that.
Or perhaps that medium is not considered appropriate.
Maybe a web site.
Not to detract from MacRumors in the least (rather complement it).
Well guys, i'm personally a certified Software Tester, for a large corp here in the UK. i deal with software engineers on a daily basis.
The thing that would help Apple would be a Single post/email with all the information we gathered in the whole thread. I could make a template,for this post but i could not fill it in as i don't know enough about the problems. the best person for this job would be someone like csmall,concord, that has all benchmarks & details to fill the template in once its filled in the The person with a email from European support(dragonforce wasnt it?) should email it directly to them.
i've been talking to engineers for years in my job, the number one hate they have is reproducing problems or trolling through loads of information to find how people are finding it.
if the people involved are up for this i can create a template in Iwork
The thing that would help Apple would be a Single post/email with all the information we gathered in the whole thread. I could make a template,for this post but i could not fill it in as i don't know enough about the problems. the best person for this job would be someone like csmall,concord, that has all benchmarks & details to fill the template in once its filled in the The person with a email from European support(dragonforce wasnt it?) should email it directly to them.
i've been talking to engineers for years in my job, the number one hate they have is reproducing problems or trolling through loads of information to find how people are finding it.
if the people involved are up for this i can create a template in Iwork
Sounds good to me.
I also think there's another agenda possible (perhaps not to be muddled in with the bug specification), which is a forum through which people can get involved and show their concern.
I think Apple are likely to view a report differently if backed by a large number of people (some sort of petition), than just one tech post (though I consider a simple clear specification essential - I too have been employed in test work for decades). I personally think that the problem is blatantly obvious to any who look for a minute, and Apple must know about it (they just can't or won't communicate on the subject, or provide a fix).
This issue is not new. I did my best to report it and demonstrate it back in July. And others have battered at Apple's seemingly deaf door.
My first scruffy notes in that direction are
http://www.facebook.com/pages/2009-Mac-Pro-audiofirewirepower-bug/295274123618
I hope someone will take it on, morph it into something that suits the purpose. Otherwise I'll plod on until too frustrated by Facebook (very much not my chosen medium).
Obviously constructive input and contribution of effort would help.
here the attached template answer all questions even if you think there stupid in this scenario it will answer the questions of the software engineer.
... to start ...
>Summary (Title):
2009 Mac Pro audio/firewire/power bug
>Description of the Problem:
2009 Mac Pro family computers have a problem with any use of audio and some firewire traffic - without showing CPU load they consume excessive power, generate heat and suffer performance degradation.
>Software Version of OSX?:
10.6.2
>Does it happen on a previous OSX?:
Yes, from at least 10.5.8
>Is it seen on any other OS (Windows/Linux)?
Windows:No.
>Which Mac computer is produced on?:
2009 Mac Pro
>Which Year model of Mac is it produced on?
2009
>Process of Reproducing the issue:
1. Install/run Temperature Monitor or iStat Menus
2. Play any audio (eg. an iTunes track)
3. Observer large temperature increase (without CPU load), also power drain.
>2nd way Process of Reproducing the issue :
1. Copy large files over Firewire
2. same symptoms
3.
>How long after a reboot does it take to reproduce the problem using the processes above?
Immediately.
>Actual Behavior of the computer?:
1 Heat generation.
2 No fan speed increase
3 No CPU load indicated in Activity Monitor
4 Performance loss
>Expected Behavior of the Computer?:
To play a tune in iTunes (or any audio app), negligible power drain, no discernible temperature rise.
>Other Information: (logs/Screenshots/error messages/benchmarks etc)
... many posted on MacRumors can be referred to
>How often is the problem seen (out of 10 attempts of trying)?:
Every time, perfectly repeatable symptoms.
>how long after a reboot does it take to reproduce the problem using the processes above?
no time.
>Is the problem specific to a certain time of day/month/year?
happens in any/every circumstance (all times of day/year).
>Are there any Applications running whilst the issue is produced?:
Symptoms occur in virgin new install and heavily loaded system, with minimal systems processes in idle or when running any other applications.
>What are the symptoms of the problem?
CPU temperature rise (under load into the 80C range or higher),
no fan speed increase,
power drain,
performance loss.
>Does a reboot of the Mac fix the problem?:
No. Nothing remedies or avoids the problem.
>Does Repair permissions fix the issue?
No.
>Does a PRAM fix the issue?
No.
>Does a Clean install fix the problem?:
No.
>Are there any ways of temporary fixing the issue (deleting files,not running certain apps etc)?
Deleting ... (see earlier in this thread (ie. to be specified here)) system file prevents symptoms but causes other problems ...
Only band aide to day: run SMCfancontrol to being temperatures down.
-------------------
All in, I don't feel this is getting very far, but presumably it can help to state the obvious.
And there are other issues, details etc. Specifics about extent of temperature increases, power drain, kernel panics, necessary fan noise, effect of audio/firewire bug when also heavily working the machine ...
Your template writing was nearly perfect cl-user i just modified a few things in there to make it a bit clearer. if anyone can find direct links to posts of benchmarks or pass me Image files to me ill host them on my server then link them into the Template so engineers can directly link and see the problems.
All in, I don't feel this is getting very far, but presumably it can help to state the obvious.
And there are other issues, details etc. Specifics about extent of temperature increases, power drain, kernel panics, necessary fan noise, effect of audio/firewire bug when also heavily working the machine
-------------------
All in, I don't feel this is getting very far, but presumably it can help to state the obvious.
And there are other issues, details etc. Specifics about extent of temperature increases, power drain, kernel panics, necessary fan noise, effect of audio/firewire bug when also heavily working the machine
Sure thing, just send me that filled out form and I will forward it directly to my EU contact at Apple / Ireland.
im a young "in" person. cl if you need any help modifying the looks of the page i might be of some help.
i think there needs to be some sort of introduction on the front page. something friendly and straight to the point. facebook is not meant to be a novel.
to be perfectly honest, having a title of "my mac pro '09 heats up when play audio" and leaving it at that would be perfectly suitable for facebook. but you know...
cl if you need any help modifying the looks of the page i might be of some help.i think there needs to be some sort of introduction on the front page. something friendly and straight to the point. facebook is not meant to be a novel.
to be perfectly honest, having a title of "my mac pro '09 heats up when play audio" and leaving it at that would be perfectly suitable for facebook. but you know...