August 7th Updates: iMacs, iLife '08, iWork '08, Mac Mini and More...

[raccoontail]

Review from new iMac owner

I bought the new 24" iMac yesterday to replace a five year old home PC which was still serviceable but having video card problems recently. I've had a 17" powerbook for years, so I'm not a "switcher." The Apple store had both new and old iMacs on display so I was able to compare to compare them side by side. The new ones are very nice looking, but not a radical update from the previous design. It coordinates very well the iPhone, and yes, the general black/silver color scheme will blend in well with most stainless/black kitchen appliances.

Keyboard: Good feel, quiet, I love the assigned function keys, and the extra USB port is very handy for plugging in a camera, etc.
Mouse: Not updated and it's already in a drawer as I use a trackball.
Screen: Most of the glare on glossy screens is only visible when viewing from an angle. While I think this is a big problem with the macbook (a coworker has one and I can't stand the screen), the 24" screen is so large you can't help but sit directly in front of it, and then the glare is not much of a problem and it looks really vivid.
Performance: Hard to tell as I haven't made it do any really heavy lifting, but so far it feels snappy. I wish it had come with 2gb of RAM, but 1 is not bad if you aren't running windows and 3rd party RAM is not that expensive.
.mac: When .mac can sync my iPhone calendar/contacts over the air, then I might consider it. Until then I don't' see the value.
Software: A coupon towards Leopard would have been nice. Then again I haven't seen any "killer apps" in Leopard that make it a must have right away, so I have no problem waiting until early '08 when the inevitable initial bugs will be patched. iLife and iWork '08 are killer apps, and both are really fantastic. They were definitely the biggest news of the day.

 

[nbhms]

Yeah, I know GPU is integrated on the Mac mini - what I really want is that mythical mini-tower ;-)

And I understand on the choice thing, but there is no reason they couldn't make a minitower as on online and Applestore (where there are knowledgeable representatives to give direction) only item and the Best Buys and Targets get the iMacs etc.

And the reason I want Firewire 800 and memory is for VMWare - VMWare is intensive on memory and disk access, and not so much on CPU for what I'll be doing. So a Mac Pro is overkill, mini is not enough, and I just hate tying myself in to an iMac. I've always managed to make my previous computers last 7 - 10 years+, and tying myself to a non-upgradable screen and GPU is going to make that very unlikely.

The wait for choice continues.

Oh, and I'm really getting tired of the "If you love OSX too much, get the high end stuff and add peripherals." line. That's going to run me at least $1000 extra if not more. I wish Apple would quit taking advantage of it's loyal following that way and offer a real solution. And while it may make business sense for them now, I think in the long run it will hurt them.

4 GB RAM would be feasible I guess, but upgradable GPU is a no go since it's an integrated chip for size and heat reasons. It's perfectly fine for 2D graphics and hight def Video playback. Firewire 800 doesn't make much sense for consumers. It makes sense for people having a High Def camcorder that has FW800 output. The mini just doens't have the horsepower to handle (edit, reencode) high def material in a not frustrating way anyway. That's what iMacs are for. Especially now, the iMacs are a far better deal than the minis. I'd buy a $400 2GHz Mini right now.

Choice is actually bad if there's too much of it. You know what you want, but a lot of people actually go to best buy or whatever and let non tech savvy people give them advice what computer to buy because there's just too much choice. The dell online store is horrible, even if you know exactly what you want. You have to customize different systems to your liking because the price is different (for the same thing, from the same store). I'd personally go for the low end 24" iMac once leopard is out. It comes with one 1GB SO-DIMM so I can take any off the shelf 2GB SO-DIMM and put it in the second slot. I didn't waste money like if there were 2 512 SO-DIMMs in there.

If you want choice, build your own PC and put your chose operating system on it. OSX is too integrated with the Mac hardware to make sense on a homebrew system. If you love OSX too much, get the high end stuff and add peripherals.

 

[mikes63737]

Does anyone else find this kinda funny?

 

[sishaw]

What dissapoints me even more is the price of memory upgrade ... 4gb of memory costs 850$ (yes, 850$). But well, Macs just are overpriced, I just cannot used to it ....

iWork and iWeb are great on the other hand.

So use memory from Crucial or other third party.

 

[Digital Skunk]

The point is this: until you clarify this statement

you are just talking out your ass. What counts as "really good"? How are the current Apple products not "really good"? Can you give an example of when Apple made a "really good" product in the past and how they are not doing it now? What company is currently making "really good" products if not Apple?

If you need clarification on that statement then read the other posters replies... they say the same thing. Nothing breathtaking... nothing revolutionary... nothing that is typical of Apple products.

(1) No design changes albeit a smoothing over of the iMac that has been long rumored. No drastic changes in the Mac Mini design either. The keyboard got a redesign to the keyboard from the MacBook... okay... that's it. Where are the amazing jaw dropping design changes that we saw with the Power Mac going from G4 --> G5 and the iMac in the same fashion? Glossing designs over is very Dell-ish, which I might add is getting better at making some machines, they still suck, but they are getting better.

(2) The iMac's specs are impressive for me... I know there are a lot of gamers out there waiting to switch that aren't too pleased... they are still looking for user replaceable parts or a MacPro mini or something, but the MacMini update should have been done 6 months ago, and this current model should have had SR in it or HDMI and been called the Apple TV Pro. Other than that is it still a drastically underpowered over priced machine, by no means a budget Mac.

(3) Speaking of MacPro.... umm... where's my update?

(4) Where is the rest of the lineup? Where is my budget all in one Mac for under a grand? There used to be an eMac, then an underpowered iMac, now there is nothing... unless Apple puts it out a few months from now. If i were a switcher I would have to buy the previous version to get an all-in-one for under a grand. They should have cut the Mini from the lineup, introduced the Apple TV Pro (MacMini with 2 HDMI ports, new case, DVD drive, etc) in the Apple TV section priced at $600/$700, and give the thin pocket college students a stripped down 20" iMac.

(5) Cinema Displays still very overpriced... trying to resist saving $800 on plastic Dells... but $800 is a good deal of money.

I am not saying that I was expecting these things to happen, but Apple could have done more like they have done in the past. There would be no reason for a big keynote if he was just showing us something that could have been put up on the website.

the intention was not to sound hot headed, so I hope no hard feelings.

What I don't understand is your statement of Apple getting cheaper prices by using laptop parts instead of real desktop parts. That is quite the opposite.

Added Note: Also, what is that 'cutting cost' thing by not including a real keyboard with the iMac? I did not know the newly designed keyboard was virtual and no real.

And then, in your answer to my post, you said that you care first about software, second about hardware, yet, yesterday's keynote showed a huge advance in software, not so much in hardware, and you are not that happy with the announcement and the poor show on innovation. Maybe it is a matter of opinion since I found the new iMac really nice and price worthy, and the software even more attractive (I already order both, iLife and iWork).

To me, it sounds a little contradictory, but maybe it is just me. So, as I said before, no hard feelings.

There were none taken, it's just hard to judge someone's 'tone' when they are typing replies. It isn't contradictory, but it does seem polarized to me. The software was a good addition, but it was far too late and far too uninteresting after waiting so long. If it were January and these things were out we would be going crazy, but it's August and to me and many other Apple is a year behind. I love iWork, but have steady given up on iLife, both have good updates now, but the hardware is falling apart now. The MacMini, MacPro, and iPod lineup have been neglected or have had very paltry updates.

I am glad that Apple is saving money by shipping and tracking only two types of keyboards but why the hell make the wireless one without the number pad...? Some people use the number pad a lot. Why not update the mighty mouse with it? That's another discussion though. DotMac was a rip off up until now... but I am sure some people will find reasons not to use it.

From the beginning of Apple history the company has been making big strides in the tech industry. Now things are starting to slow down and Apple is starting to loose it's imagination and innovation. The iPhone could have been a contender... but it's being choked by American cell phone practices and a bad service provider. The MacMini was a good concept two years ago but it and the Apple TV share too much to not be combined into one product. When the iMac was introduced Apple kept the eMac as the education machine of choice. They could have kept the base 17" iMac as an option for those that want it and only have it special ordered.

I know Apple has a plan... but Steve is by no means more than a man... and he has made mistakes before... I hope he isn't heading toward one now.

Does anyone else find this kinda funny?

Yes.... very funny.

 

[otispunkmeyer]

Negative?

Or just simply not what you want to hear?

Considering you can buy a 1GB module (as in 1 X 1GB module) for ~ $40 retail, the 2 X 512MiB modules that come with a $1700 iMac is like literally worthless.

They can't even put in decent memory in such an expensive computer?

its crap isnt it, the DDR2 667 in my SR MBP has a CAS of 5.... i thought they'd gotten tighter than that now.

 

[MrCrowbar]

Does anyone else find this kinda funny?

Yea, I saw that too. Guess there was no need to label the iMac as new since it's front page and looks different than before.

 

[dave-tx]

(3) Speaking of MacPro.... umm... where's my update?

(5) Cinema Displays still very overpriced... trying to resist saving $800 on plastic Dells... but $800 is a good deal of money.

I'm hoping for a MacPro update when 10.5 is released - I'm waiting to buy until both hardware and OS are updated. Is there any speculation as to when MacPro will get a rev?

I use Dell 24" displays both at home and at work, and for my purposes they do the job more than adequately. When they're on sale, they're hard to beat.

 

[gnasher729]

its crap isnt it, the DDR2 667 in my SR MBP has a CAS of 5.... i thought they'd gotten tighter than that now.

The CAS is five cycles - that is 5/667 microseconds or 7.5 nanoseconds.

Maybe a year ago you had DDR2 400 memory with a CAS of five and it seems it didn't get faster - but it did. With the old memory, CAS was 5/400 microseconds or 12.0 nanoseconds. So the access time _did_ actually get faster.

 

[morespce54]

No, I am running my new iMac and I can't see anything to do with my iPhone.

Also, here is the update explanation. "- This Front Row update provides for improved iPhoto compatibility."

that goes with the new ilife...

 

[FF_productions]

I don't know if anybody pointed this out but with that Mac Mini refresh, all Macs are now 64 BIT.

 

[Gaelic1]

What dissapoints me even more is the price of memory upgrade ... 4gb of memory costs 850$ (yes, 850$). But well, Macs just are overpriced, I just cannot used to it ....

iWork and iWeb are great on the other hand.

I just checked at OWC and they have 2gb modules for $119 each. That' makes the 4Gb memory for $238 and you can return the 1 GB module for a rebate.

 

[OldTimey]

I highly doubt that...blah blah
blah blah
....
Educate yourself before you attempt to question what someone expects in an update. It will save you the embarrassment, because the fact is something could have and should have been done with the Mac Pro.

ROFLZ


first of all: uhh was i talking to you? 2nd: SPARE me the techno-bable. I am in school earning a PhD in computer engineering, so back. off.

I was merely pointing out the overwhelming need for people to whine about updates. I AM POSITIVE that when the new mac pros come out, 45 mm chipset and all, it won't have as nasty a graphics card as the latest pc offering, it will ship with 2gb or 4 gb of ram, and people will ask why it doesn't have 8gb for a 4000 dollar mac, blueray won't be standard, if offered at all, youll still have to pay 70 bucks for an airport card.

EDUCATE YOURSELF on apple trends, and all the whining that goes on in here.

adieu

 

[AidenShaw]

Page 3 news

The Imac update was stuck back on page 3 of the tech section of this morning's Mercury News.

Kind of embarrassing when Apple's home town daily paper buries the story. (Front page was a story about a patent dispute concerning Ampex.)

Even the Ipod HiFi and Socks made front page....

 

[illicium]

3rd Party RAM

Just how easy or hard is it to open the New iMac and add 3rd Party RAM? I remember someone saying you can just remove one screw and open a panel to access the RAM. Is this true or is it more complicated than that??

 

[aristotle]

Ok guys, what are you all basing your problems with this new GFX card on? I'm talking about both the base model and the other two models. Where are the benchmarks for the card in OS X under OpenGL? They are not out yet.

Benchmarks in windows with a windows card in Directx using early buggy drivers is not going to tell me squat about how it will perform in the iMac.

There are a few key differences between the PC version of these cards:
- OS X uses a different driver model.
- Macs use EFI meaning the card does not go through a video bios layer.
- OS X uses multithreaded OpenGL which has been proven faster than Directx on the same hardware (see world of warcraft).

I heard the same crap and whining about the MBP with the X1600 and how it would be crappy at playing games. Well guess what? All that stuff you guys said about it turned out to be FUD and bullcrap.

I've played Star Wars: Empire at War (original and expansion) on my MBP in XP at resolutions as high as 1920X1200 with everything except anti-aliasing turned up high. I've also played Age of Empires III in OSX at 1920X1200 with everything turned high except anti-aliasing.

I don't know why my MBP performs so well in OS X and even XP compared to supposed performance you trolls would claim. Perhaps emulating video bios through the EFI compatibility module is actually faster than video bios or maybe the motherboard layout of the macs is more efficient than PC counterparts.

 

[MrCrowbar]

Just how easy or hard is it to open the New iMac and add 3rd Party RAM? I remember someone saying you can just remove one screw and open a panel to access the RAM. Is this true or is it more complicated than that??

It looks very much like the "old" iMacs where you unscrewed 2 screws (the screws actually stay in the lid so you can't loose them). I suppose it's very similar in the new iMacs. If Apple says it's user replacable, a 5 year old could do it.

 

[aria505]

Numbers is an Incredible first release

I use Excel on a Windows computer all the time at my job so I was really curious to see how well Numbers worked.

So I downloaded the trial version last night, and I have to say that I am shocked at how much more productive Numbers is than Excel. I've been using Excel 2007 which is "suppose" to be more intuitive than the original, but I still have to stumble around between all of the different tabs to find what I'm wanting to do.

It's incredible that everything you need to do is right in front of you. The interface isn't cluttered with a bunch of tools that aren't usually needed. It is genius that Numbers is based on the idea that you want to print off your spread sheet, which you usually do. I have to do a lot of work in Excel today, but I can already tell that I will be getting my work down a lot faster since I'll be using Numbers.

I have found a few things that I can not do in Numbers that I do in Excel, but I've already found work arounds for them. "Work arounds" that aren't limiting but are actually a better way to do things. I never thought that I would actually enjoy using a spreadsheet program.

 

[Hairball]

Just how easy or hard is it to open the New iMac and add 3rd Party RAM? I remember someone saying you can just remove one screw and open a panel to access the RAM. Is this true or is it more complicated than that??

It is not difficult. I recently added 1 gig of RAM to the iMac I bought last year. Remove the screw, open the panel, snap in the memory, replace the screw and panel. That's all it takes.

 

[3282872]

iDVD in iLife '08 crashes

Ok, so I got iLife '08 for my Mac Pro, upgraded from iLife '06, and now iDVD crashes, on both of my drives, one running Tiger 10.4.10 and the other Leopard 9A499. I deleted the PLIST files on both drives and got to the window for iDVD that let's me choose to create or open a new project, and then it crashes. I deleted the entire suite, all hidden files as well, restarted, reinstalled iLife '08, restarted, repaired permissions and still it crashes. I called Apple but they were of no help.

Any one else having a similar experience?

 

[jthrasher]

Am I the only one that still can't get the video to load??

 

[njfuzzy]

I'm happy with this update

I think that this update is a really positive move, and it came as a pleasant surprise. Watching Apple's recent moves, I expected the new iMac to move the machine away from the mid-range, towards the high-end. (Think Mac Cube.) That would have been bad, in my opinion, so this is a relief.

In the end, they went for an update that lowers the price and ups the specs marginally, basically bringing the machine up to date. They could have added multi-touch, or more high-end components and more RAM, but it would have driven the price up around $2000.

Instead, we have a machine that is a great step up from the previous model, with a pretty bold new style (more evident in person than in photos), that is much more affordable. Well done, Apple.

 

[Hairball]

I use Excel on a Windows computer all the time at my job so I was really curious to see how well Numbers worked.

So I downloaded the trial version last night, and I have to say that I am shocked at how much more productive Numbers is than Excel. I've been using Excel 2007 which is "suppose" to be more intuitive than the original, but I still have to stumble around between all of the different tabs to find what I'm wanting to do.

It's incredible that everything you need to do is right in front of you. The interface isn't cluttered with a bunch of tools that aren't usually needed. It is genius that Numbers is based on the idea that you want to print off your spread sheet, which you usually do. I have to do a lot of work in Excel today, but I can already tell that I will be getting my work down a lot faster since I'll be using Numbers.

I have found a few things that I can not do in Numbers that I do in Excel, but I've already found work arounds for them. "Work arounds" that aren't limiting but are actually a better way to do things. I never thought that I would actually enjoy using a spreadsheet program.

I have to say that I played around with Numbers and was happy at what I saw. For anything that I will need to do at home, numbers will be more than sufficient. Although numbers was a very nice addition to iWork, I am glad to see that Pages has an upgraded tool bar to include the most important functions needed in creating documents. It's just nice to have everything there rather than modifying the toolbar or opening the tool box and searching for basic word processing tools

 

[lamar777]

Pages Needs Printing!

I love pages. I use it to create brochures pesters etc. What I was really hoping for in an update was iPhoto like printing options. I want to be able to click purchase and have 50 posters delivered to my door. Apple could be making cash on this service just like their photo printing.

So until then does anybody know any good inexpensive web services for printing promotional materials?

 

[morespce54]

The reason Steve seemed depressed was because the crowd was completely dead. Do those morons need a neon "Applause" sign? There was zero reaction when the new iMac was unveiled. Really lame, if I were invited out I'd bring banners and air horns to liven things up. Ingrates

well, maybe they were expecting a little bit more?
I know, the new form-factor for the iMac is pretty slick but what's inside? Not much more then what it use to be (for the average consumer). And for iApps, the new versions are sweet but would you expected less (when they invite you to a Mac-only event)?

Although i must say that if I was in for a new desktop in October, the new iMac-Leopard-iLife-iWork-trial bundle would be attractive...

mmm...leopard