They're trying to make the argument that Apple controls 100% of the iPhone market, basically.
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Australian Banks Challenge Apple Over Mobile Payment App Restrictions
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They're trying to make the argument that Apple controls 100% of the iPhone market, basically.
Right? You do all the work Apple, and then allow us to use your work for our benefit and paying you nothing for your efforts.
You're glad they're not letting other people use it simply because you don't want to? Selfish.
Is Apple Pay really so special? My card has contactless payment already, how is having it on my phone as well so amazingly special?
no... I'm saying companies should be allowed to use whatever technology they want. Weather Westpac realizes later.... or not, that's still their choice... Just because half the country in U.S for example may be on Apple Pay doesn't mean we all have to... What about this thing called "freedom"
As a customer of Westepac, i'll be glad to continue using my cards... I don't want to switch to a new method, because i know i'll just be reaching for my card anyway.
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I just use cardless cash if I need to pay or just scan card while covering the entire card to prevent anyone from seeing card number.
Either Apple opens NFC support or bank supports Apple Pay. This is not a matter of "just one way or the other" though, methink.
It's not "amazingly special" - but it is really convenient. Will be more so when the retailers get the picture and raise the transaction limits (yes, at least here in Canada, the transaction limits are set by the retailers).
With some governments trialling secure ID's on phones as a means to get away from physical ID cards, I'm hopeful we may actually get to an entirely digital wallet in the next 20 years. (which will annoy the chiropractors, as so many of us likely have back issues due to sitting with our hips out of alignment all day)
Two things...
First: I think Apple should open the NFC access to other apps and developers. There are more apps and applications for NFC than just payments.
Second: They should require stores that support it to teach their cashiers how to use it. An example: I am in Phoenix, Arizona, USA and I shop at Staples (an Office Supply store) pretty frequently. Most of the time, the cashiers have no idea how to use it, when to "hit the button" so I can actually use Apple Pay. And the last time, for no apparent reason, I had to sign the terminal after using Apple Pay. I've not had to do that before and they had no idea why I would need to. This kind of lack of info thing has happened at other retailers that accept AP as well.
Oh, well, I am sure it will get better over time as most things do and the tech is more widely available.
First: I think Apple should open the NFC access to other apps and developers. There are more apps and applications for NFC than just payments.
Second: They should require stores that support it to teach their cashiers how to use it. An example: I am in Phoenix, Arizona, USA and I shop at Staples (an Office Supply store) pretty frequently. Most of the time, the cashiers have no idea how to use it, when to "hit the button" so I can actually use Apple Pay. And the last time, for no apparent reason, I had to sign the terminal after using Apple Pay. I've not had to do that before and they had no idea why I would need to. This kind of lack of info thing has happened at other retailers that accept AP as well.
Oh, well, I am sure it will get better over time as most things do and the tech is more widely available.
Why should most people care if a store knows my purchase history?
Apple logs a lot of info too (wtf does Apple need to record my IP when I make a iTunes purchase) when you make a iTunes purcahes so it can be data mined.
It's not 'amazingly special', I find it useful and convenient, and easier and quicker than getting my contactless card out of my wallet to use. I can do most of my day to day shopping with it, and could manage virtually everything if shops would get in gear and lift the #30 limit.
I find it useful, other don't. I don't see why it has to be an either/or argument, use what suits your needs best.
I'm more likely to leave home forgetting my wallet than I am my phone. At least i'll have a payment system with me that should cover most of my short term needs.
But addressing the topic, this seems to be nothing more than the Aussie banks saying "we want more money"
34 percent of smartphone owners take no security precautions whatsoever
only 11 percent use one that’s longer than four digits.
https://www.eyelock.com/index.php/c...five-most-common-smartphone-security-mistakes
and I'm done with you.
And support multiple opal card if possible.
Starting from August 1, paper ticket will be a thing of the past. If iPhone supports it then I will be more than happy to just use iPhone to pay train/bus/light rail/ferry fee.
I don't think you're going to see anyone argue about the NFC chip being opened up for non-pay applications. It's a functionality that could significantly enhance the usefulness of the iPhone and
Watch.It's not Apple Pay you're talking about. It's contactless payments. This behaviour is not unique to AP - it's how all contactless payment works. If they know how to do one, they know the other - from a usage standpoint, it's identical.
The signature thing is something that their POS system has either implemented improperly or the vendor has asked for it to cover their own A$$.
So each time I use card to pay Sth I fully covers the entire card so that even surveillance camera cannot grab card info anyway, as long as I can do so.
You have only one card with this feature, so no, it's not special for you. You can hold your wallet up to the reader and only one card will trigger the payment. Pretty convenient.
For someone with a couple of contactless cards in their wallet, it's slightly less convenient, because the reader may select the wrong card, or complain about too many cards in range. You still have to open your wallet and remove the card you want to use. Apple Pay allows you to set which card is the primary one, and choosing a different card is just a matter of swiping to the card you prefer for the purchase. I have three cards enrolled in Apple Pay (a debit card, a credit card, and a charge card--though the difference between credit and charge cards is academic for me). It's pretty amazingly special for me.
I also think Apple Pay and its competitors will pave a way to the future where keeping physical cards in my wallet will seem as quaint as writing a paper check (something I haven't done in a year or two). That's pretty special (in a soon to be ordinary kind of way). I mean, cards aren't special. I can remember my parents paying for things using cards back in the late 1960s. I'm not impressed by that little card you're waving around. It's not amazingly special at all!
Again with using a study that's not about iPhones and stuck on 4 digit PINs. How many times do you have to be told iPhone users don't typically have 4 digit PINs before it sinks in?
Here's something relevant.
https://techpinions.com/apples-penchant-for-consumer-security/45122
Apple claims 89% of people with a Touch ID equipped iPhone use it. Techpinions did their own survey and found 85% use Touch ID or PIN. So that pretty much refutes all your claims.
But I agree, you should be done. Everyone here has called you out on your BS and you still keep posting. Better to bow out now, then to make yourself look worse than you already do. Good call on your part.
Couldn't care less about theft if my credit card falls out of my wallet. Covered 100%. But chip and pin mitigates this. Don't know why you conveniently ignored this
There is a lot of misinformation being shared in here, contactless is not as safe and secure as some of you think.
Most people are more likely to notice their phone is missing than their purse, wallet or card, I don't know about you but most people look at their phone dozens of times a day, whereas they would look at their purse, wallet or cards much less often, unless taking it out for a purchase or to put it away once home.
Some people will lose a card and not realise for days or even weeks, cards are very often left behind in shops, dropped from a bag or purse, left in ATMs. It happens. Of course people leave their phones too, I'm not disputing that, but to think it's more likely to find an iPhone with an easy to use password over the chances of finding a debit or credit card is a little silly. If you enter the wrong password a number of times the device locks, as indeed a card will be kept by an ATM, but you don't need the PIN to use a contactless card. PIN numbers on cards are often easy to guess too, a study by a tech company of 3.4 million cards found on a hacked list online found that 11 percent of the PIN codes were 1234.
The fact is for you Apple Pay may not be useful, that's fine, but you can't state it's not a big deal for anyone else. It is for me, I often go out without my wallet, it's bulky, I don't like taking it out, I have a lot of cards I can lose plus my ID, cash, it's just annoying. I always without fail have my iPhone in my right pocket of my trousers, and I can pay for items with it easily. That's a pretty big deal. If I'm not going anywhere where I will need to pay cash or need to make large spends I leave my wallet safely at home, but my phone is wih me. If I hen need to buy something it's annoying not having my wallet, but if I can pay with my phone that's just really convenient. I'm not sure how it can't be seen as useful!
I also like that I'm not giving any of my information to the store - my name, my card number, expiry date. Terminals can take this information with contactless payments, and devices designed purely to steal from a contactless card take this information, it isn't locked away by the card. In fact your contactless card can also tell a machine your last 5 purchases, did you know that? So much for privacy eh!
If you purchase from a store online that has physical stores too and then purchase in store using the same card did you know they can link the purchases? They can connect this spend to your online purchase, they know who you are. It happened to me, I don't use loyalty cards as I don't want my purchases tracked and I don't want a store to know anything other than that I've paid for an item and I'm taking it out of their store. We (myself and my wife) purchased online, some weeks later we made a purchase in store paying with a contactless card. Online not long after it suggested something else I may like to buy connected to my instore purchase. And people think the information isn't seen....
As above, I think it brings a lot to the table over using a card in a machine or contactless. I know I will get my money back if it was spent fraudulently, but it's not as clear cut as you make out. Banks can and do investigate, if they suspect you may have been negligent they don't have to pay until they have investigated everything. There have been cases where he transaction was in a store where the card was used by the owner previously, and in see cases they will sometimes not refund unless the account holder can prove it wasn't them. They can accuse the store of billing by error from previous transactions, or the account holder of returning as a customer and forgetting, the onus can be put on the account holder to prove it.
Most importantly though and something that happens a lot more than above, until you report the loss of the card you are only covered once they spend £50. Once reported you are covered for any spends, but until you make that call you are liable for the first £50. 1 card means £50 maximum so not too bad, some people have multiple cards.
Now losing your phone is likely to be noticed sooner. Losing a card can take days to notice. I have 7 debit cards for 4 different banks and I have 11 credit cards, that's 18 cards, at a glance it would take me a little time to realise if one was missing and which one it was. My PIN isn't 1234 but that doesn't mean they couldn't spend online where they don't need a PIN.
The banks can and do take time to repay the money, in most cases it's very quick, usually same day, but there are numerous stories online of people being out of pocket for weeks while banks investigate. If they feel you were negligent they can refuse to pay up. Their definition of negligent may well be different to yours, but they can argue it's your fault and they do 'win' the argument often. It's not a case of they always roll over and give the money back the same day. Google it, read some of the horror stories.
I don't know what your definition of 'no difference to the consumer' is but the above matters to me.
Cameras can capture your PIN, people can watch you enter it, it happens all the time, card fraud with chip and pin is massive, from ATMs having skimmers and cameras to card terminals in stores and petrol stations and other places being replaced or fitted with a device to capture data. Being naive about these things doesn't make you safer or mean it can't or won't happen to you.
As I said earlier the same applies for card PIN numbers, they are certainly not more secure than an iPhone using Apple Pay.
Most people are more likely to notice their phone is missing than their purse, wallet or card, I don't know about you but most people look at their phone dozens of times a day, whereas they would look at their purse, wallet or cards much less often, unless taking it out for a purchase or to put it away once home.
Some people will lose a card and not realise for days or even weeks, cards are very often left behind in shops, dropped from a bag or purse, left in ATMs. It happens. Of course people leave their phones too, I'm not disputing that, but to think it's more likely to find an iPhone with an easy to use password over the chances of finding a debit or credit card is a little silly. If you enter the wrong password a number of times the device locks, as indeed a card will be kept by an ATM, but you don't need the PIN to use a contactless card. PIN numbers on cards are often easy to guess too, a study by a tech company of 3.4 million cards found on a hacked list online found that 11 percent of the PIN codes were 1234.
The fact is for you Apple Pay may not be useful, that's fine, but you can't state it's not a big deal for anyone else. It is for me, I often go out without my wallet, it's bulky, I don't like taking it out, I have a lot of cards I can lose plus my ID, cash, it's just annoying. I always without fail have my iPhone in my right pocket of my trousers, and I can pay for items with it easily. That's a pretty big deal. If I'm not going anywhere where I will need to pay cash or need to make large spends I leave my wallet safely at home, but my phone is wih me. If I hen need to buy something it's annoying not having my wallet, but if I can pay with my phone that's just really convenient. I'm not sure how it can't be seen as useful!
I also like that I'm not giving any of my information to the store - my name, my card number, expiry date. Terminals can take this information with contactless payments, and devices designed purely to steal from a contactless card take this information, it isn't locked away by the card. In fact your contactless card can also tell a machine your last 5 purchases, did you know that? So much for privacy eh!
If you purchase from a store online that has physical stores too and then purchase in store using the same card did you know they can link the purchases? They can connect this spend to your online purchase, they know who you are. It happened to me, I don't use loyalty cards as I don't want my purchases tracked and I don't want a store to know anything other than that I've paid for an item and I'm taking it out of their store. We (myself and my wife) purchased online, some weeks later we made a purchase in store paying with a contactless card. Online not long after it suggested something else I may like to buy connected to my instore purchase. And people think the information isn't seen....
As above, I think it brings a lot to the table over using a card in a machine or contactless. I know I will get my money back if it was spent fraudulently, but it's not as clear cut as you make out. Banks can and do investigate, if they suspect you may have been negligent they don't have to pay until they have investigated everything. There have been cases where he transaction was in a store where the card was used by the owner previously, and in see cases they will sometimes not refund unless the account holder can prove it wasn't them. They can accuse the store of billing by error from previous transactions, or the account holder of returning as a customer and forgetting, the onus can be put on the account holder to prove it.
Most importantly though and something that happens a lot more than above, until you report the loss of the card you are only covered once they spend £50. Once reported you are covered for any spends, but until you make that call you are liable for the first £50. 1 card means £50 maximum so not too bad, some people have multiple cards.
Now losing your phone is likely to be noticed sooner. Losing a card can take days to notice. I have 7 debit cards for 4 different banks and I have 11 credit cards, that's 18 cards, at a glance it would take me a little time to realise if one was missing and which one it was. My PIN isn't 1234 but that doesn't mean they couldn't spend online where they don't need a PIN.
The banks can and do take time to repay the money, in most cases it's very quick, usually same day, but there are numerous stories online of people being out of pocket for weeks while banks investigate. If they feel you were negligent they can refuse to pay up. Their definition of negligent may well be different to yours, but they can argue it's your fault and they do 'win' the argument often. It's not a case of they always roll over and give the money back the same day. Google it, read some of the horror stories.
I don't know what your definition of 'no difference to the consumer' is but the above matters to me.
Cameras can capture your PIN, people can watch you enter it, it happens all the time, card fraud with chip and pin is massive, from ATMs having skimmers and cameras to card terminals in stores and petrol stations and other places being replaced or fitted with a device to capture data. Being naive about these things doesn't make you safer or mean it can't or won't happen to you.
As I said earlier the same applies for card PIN numbers, they are certainly not more secure than an iPhone using Apple Pay.
And you will have to go through many hoops until you get your money back. Eventually if you are lucky. Also count in wasted time. Where as with Apple Pay this is almost impossible.
Why do I want to whip out my phone...chip and pin. All my cards have the chip now.
No sir, one phone call. It's happened before. Credit card companies are great at suspicious activity. If my cc vendor detects suspicious activity, even a 99 cent iTunes purchase, I get a notification.
If I forget my phone like I did the other day and I went into the city I'm screwed.
And if you forget your wallet you aren't?
Well you are one lucky guy then, but there are billions of people with cards using different banks having different rules. I know some very different stories.
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You can do whatever you want. That's up to you, but why are you ignoring the valid reason why Apple Pay is useful to many people? It's not about likes, dislikes or opinions. It has factual advantages over regular plastic.