Australian Regulators Targeting Apple Over '4G' Marketing Claims on New iPad

[TheBronx]

It's not a "not "real 4G"". It's simply not a 4G.

4G is not a real thing! I don't get why you people don't understand that hehe. There's no tangible thing as 4G. It's a standard that's defined by some body somewhere, and that body is the ITU and they redefined it. People who keep saying it's not "real" 4G are so silly beyond the point of belief hehe

 

[aristotle]

No.

The iPad cannot connect to 4G LTE networks in Australia due to incompatible frequencies.

It can connect to HSPA+ and DC-HSPA but these are not 4G.

Sorry but I refuse to call 21Mbits/sec or 42 Mbits/sec in the same generation as CDMA EVDO or even regular 7.2 Mbits/sec HSPA.

There has to be an objective cutoff point based on "speed". You cannot have 3Mbits/sec being in the same generation as 42 Mbits/sec especially considering that HSPA+ and DC-HSPA came out many years later than EVDO and started rolling out just before LTE did.

 

[nightflight82]

well having done a bit about australian consumer law @ uni I can see why this is done. In australia it is against the law to mislead the consumer about a feature (such as 4g) that is considered a pivotal part of a product. if 4g was mentioned just in fine print its ok, but putting big print that you can achieve 4g is likely to deceive. aus law reads misleading 'if it is likely to mislead an ORDINARY member of public that means someone who doesn't necessary have a great knowledge about connections speeds'...ie would most likely choose 4g thinking its faster and pay more.. so it is bad bait advertising thats all. When the product is delivered to you all the features that are advertised must be operational but only if they are again considered a big part of the product. for instance I have a german car with headunit that can receive traffic info. Since in australia this information is not broadcasted at all I can't return it since the traffic info was not advertised as a main selling feature of the radio but just a good extra....That makes me think why these days majority of toys come with batteries included --better safe than sorry.

 

[coolfactor]

Fineprintgate.

Apple's going to be forced to revolutionize another existing technology - fine print.

 

[TheBronx]

well having done a bit about australian consumer law @ uni I can see why this is done. In australia it is against the law to mislead the consumer about a feature (such as 4g) that is considered a pivotal part of a product. if 4g was mentioned just in fine print its ok, but putting big print that you can achieve 4g is likely to deceive. aus law reads misleading 'if it is likely to mislead an ORDINARY member of public that means someone who doesn't necessary have a great knowledge about connections speeds'...ie would most likely choose 4g thinking its faster and pay more.. so it is bad bait advertising thats all. When the product is delivered to you all the features that are advertised must be operational but only if they are again considered a big part of the product. for instance I have a german car with headunit that can receive traffic info. Since in australia this information is not broadcasted at all I can't return it since the traffic info was not advertised as a main selling feature of the radio but just a good extra....That makes me think why these days majority of toys come with batteries included --better safe than sorry.

HSPA+ is 4G. That's where the battle ends

 

[foranor]

Should've just called it iPad HD.

 

[bushido]

rightly so, they shouldnt promote something that isnt avab in a particularly country. i understand using those 4G ads in the US, but dont promote 4G in countries where their chip or frequency is knowingly not supported. it would be different if the chip would have a "world support" while the providers arent yet ready but thats not the case, apple knows damn well that their chip is only made for the US market yet they promote it in europe or anywhere in the world where the frequence is knowingly not supported

 

[Lennholm]

Apple should never take a "one size fits all" approach in how it markets its products. The world infrastructures are too different. Why "ask for it" from governments/lawyers/etc.? Instead....do a little research and work with marketing firms in each country to "fine tune" the pitch.

Seems pretty basic...

As far as the Apple Website, just post a list of "in" and "out" countries so people can determine their own particular compatibility straight away.

Apple always take a one size fits all approach, basically the only localization they do is feature restriction and keyboard layouts.

It's just saying that it has the ABILITY to do 4G. It's up to the carriers.

But it doesn't and never will have the ability to do 4G in Australia and most other countries. It's not up to the carriers because they cannot pick and choose the frequencies.
It's very simple, they shouldn't market a feature as a selling point if that feature will forever be unavailable.

 

[ovrlrd]

Now if only we had the same kind of regulation in the US to stop companies like AT&T and T-Mobile calling their HSPA+ networks 4G. It is so sad how much US telecom's get away with. It is just going to get worse too, backroom deals between different companies to keep prices high and consumers clueless will keep happening.

 

[ColinF]

HSPA+ is 4G. That's where the battle ends

Except this is not even an argument about that.
As was posted previously (and feel free to check the Aus Store to verify this)
Apple themselves say in fine print that 4G is not available other than in US and Canada.
So they themselves do not define HSPA+ as "4G".
So given that they do not define HSPA+ as 4G, they should not put 4G in big bold letters on the advert.
IF they were making the claim that actually HSPA+ WAS 4G then your comment would hold some merit. But they arent. And it doesnt.

Its not a technical argument. Its purely one of alleged false advertising.
The battle doesnt end with HSPA+ being 4G. In fact it doesnt even START there.

 

[TheBronx]

Now if only we had the same kind of regulation in the US to stop companies like AT&T and T-Mobile calling their HSPA+ networks 4G. It is so sad how much US telecom's get away with. It is just going to get worse too, backroom deals between different companies to keep prices high and consumers clueless will keep happening.

They're well within their rights to call HSPA+ 4G. You know why? Cuz it is.

 

[bushido]

Now if only we had the same kind of regulation in the US to stop companies like AT&T and T-Mobile calling their HSPA+ networks 4G. It is so sad how much US telecom's get away with. It is just going to get worse too, backroom deals between different companies to keep prices high and consumers clueless will keep happening.

its not about that really. its that apple promotes 4G in countries where the chip they use in the new iPad will never be supported due to different frequentes. apple should have either made sure that their chip will support all kind of frequences or dont promote it in those countries at all

 

[TheBronx]

its not about that really. its that apple promotes 4G in countries where the chip they use in the new iPad will never be supported due to different frequentes. apple should have either made sure that their chip will support all kind of frequences or dont promote it in those countries at all

The chip supports HSPA+ in Australia. HSPA+ is 4G. Therefore, this is just hilarity.

 

[babyj]

Don't get why people are arguing about what is and isn't 4G. This is about what Apple are saying and they are pretty clear that 4G = LTE and 3G = HSPA, HSPA*+ and DC-HSDPA. Even if HSPA+ is defined as 4G by the ITU, Apple are not promoting it as a 4G service so it is irrelevant.

Looks like Apple have tidied up their UK site a bit but it is still extremely misleading and confusing - lots of references to 4G and then a tiny footnote which itself is badly written. Saying it works on these networks in the US and these in Canada but see your local carrier for details, suggests it could work once your carrier provides 4G.

This was and continues to be a major screw up by Apple. The crazy thing is it is all totally unnecessary, they've gained nothing by pushing the 4G angle across the world and damaged their reputation in the process.

 

[nightflight82]

The chip supports HSPA+ in Australia. HSPA+ is 4G. Therefore, this is just hilarity.

telecos in australia don't treat hspa+ as 4g rather 3.5g. on my iPad it says 3g not 4g...

 

[TheBronx]

telecos in australia don't treat hspa+ as 4g rather 3.5g. on my iPad it says 3g not 4g...

it doesn't matter. hspa+ is defined as 4g by the people who define it.

 

[bushido]

The chip supports HSPA+ in Australia. HSPA+ is 4G. Therefore, this is just hilarity.

with that logic the iPhone 4S is already a LTE phone

 

[nightflight82]

it doesn't matter. hspa+ is defined as 4g by the people who define it.

i don't think so telcos would use that here as a big selling point ...but they are not. go to a shop here and ask them if you can get iPad on 4g they will laugh at you

 

[TheBronx]

with that logic the iPhone 4S is already a LTE phone

incorrect use of logic. LTE ≠ HSPA+ ≠ WiMax

i don't think so telcos would use that here as a big selling point ...but they are not. go to a shop here and ask them if you can get iPad on 4g they will laugh at you

I'm not talking about marketing, I'm talking about if this goes to court or becomes some huge case. ITU defines HSPA+ as 4G, so if someone tries to argue that they're not getting "real" 4G, the ITU definition will be bought in, and the case will be dismissed for the foolishness it is.

This is another chicken little scenario, sorry

 

[babyj]

it doesn't matter. hspa+ is defined as 4g by the people who define it.

Totally irrelevant. Apple very clearly sell HSPA+ as a 3G service.

 

[nozebleed]

 

[bushido]

incorrect use of logic. LTE ≠ HSPA+ ≠ WiMax



I'm not talking about marketing, I'm talking about if this goes to court or becomes some huge case. ITU defines HSPA+ as 4G, so if someone tries to argue that they're not getting "real" 4G, the ITU definition will be bought in, and the case will be dismissed for the foolishness it is.

This is another chicken little scenario, sorry

u just said HSPA+ is 4G, now you're saying LTE ≠ HSPA+ but isnt LTE 4G ^^

 

[World Citizen]

No, the car is a bad analogy because, as I stated earlier, you can legally do 200 MPH on a track (and I bet pretty much every country has a race track that's open to the public - or at least people with enough money to buy a car capable of 200). There's nowhere in Australia where the iPad can use LTE.

so you are saying that in a country with no tracks... you are not allowed to advertise this car... ?


And what if some carrier decides to implement 4g in these countries...

And you can legally use 4g if a carrier supports it...

 

[TheBronx]

Totally irrelevant. Apple very clearly sell HSPA+ as a 3G service.

How is it irrelevant? Does Apple have to advertise HSPA+ as 4g? no they do not. But if they advertise something as 4G, it has to be either WiMax, HSPA+, or LTE. The iPad is.

hehe this is nothing new. In fact, it's quite common. I'd be more surprised if there wasn't an outrage against apple over something so petty and silly

Apple will be fine. Trust me.

 

[commander.data]

Totally irrelevant. Apple very clearly sell HSPA+ as a 3G service.

The whole thing is in flux now that connecting to a HSPA+ network on the iPhone 4S or iPad 3 displays the 4G symbol which was just introduced in iOS 5.1.