Backlight bleeding

[jesse.emm]

As a follow-up to my previous post, I exchanged my iPad2 at Bestbuy yesterday. The one I have now is fantastic.

Below are some photos taken at 100% brightness.

Returned iPad
Image

New iPad
Image

Returned iPad
Image

New iPad
Image

And it only took four iPads to get a good one! Take that you 6 time offenders! HA!

wow, it looks great! I'm just thinking whether to get it return or not. This is mine. But they said it depends on chance, not necessarily being better after got a new one. How could I do?? >0<

 

[Piggie]

What I would like to know is:

Say I buy an iPad2 now, and it had backlight bleeding, lets say about about an average amount.

I use this iPad2 for a year and then I sell it privately to someone else, so I can upgrade to iPad3.

What do I do if the buyers ask about backlight bleeding, or what do I do if I sell it and the buyer says I sold them a faulty product and start getting nasty and threatening bad feedback towards me?

 

[SPEEDwithJJ]

What I would like to know is:

Say I buy an iPad2 now, and it had backlight bleeding, lets say about about an average amount.

I use this iPad2 for a year and then I sell it privately to someone else, so I can upgrade to iPad3.

What do I do if the buyers ask about backlight bleeding, or what do I do if I sell it and the buyer says I sold them a faulty product and start getting nasty and threatening bad feedback towards me?

Just give your buyer a $50 refund if he/she complains to you & all will be well? LOL!

But seriously, tell your buyer that this is normal, all the iPad 2 units come with some form of backlight bleeding as a standard Apple feature. Tell him/her that if the iPad 2 screen has got backlight bleeding, it is definitely a genuine original Apple product & if the iPad 2 screen does not have any backlight bleeding, it could have been a 3rd party knock-off. I'm sure he/she will be very understanding.

Good luck.

 

[Piggie]

Just give your buyer a $50 refund if he/she complains to you & all will be well? LOL!

But seriously, tell your buyer that this is normal, all the iPad 2 units come with backlight bleeding as a standard Apple feature. I'm sure he/she will be very understanding.

Good luck.

That is my worry, it's ok if I choose to accept it, but I'd be worried about repercussions for my future sale to another person.

I want an iPad2 as I want to give my current iPad to another family member as a gift. I've been waiting for the screens to get better since launch day but it still seems pot luck.
I'm almost tempted to buy say four brand new iPads, try them all, pick the best one and stick with that, and then return the other 3, or sell them on to others on ebay or something. But it's a LOT of cash to do that an a lot of messing around.

 

[SPEEDwithJJ]

That is my worry, it's ok if I choose to accept it, but I'd be worried about repercussions for my future sale to another person.

I want an iPad2 as I want to give my current iPad to another family member as a gift. I've been waiting for the screens to get better since launch day but it still seems pot luck.
I'm almost tempted to buy say four brand new iPads, try them all, pick the best one and stick with that, and then return the other 3, or sell them on to others on ebay or something. But it's a LOT of cash to do that an a lot of messing around.

I was partly just joking with my previous post.

However, to be really serious, I think it may also depend on what kind of screen Apple is going to be using for the iPad 3. If it is going to be the same technology (IPS LED back-lit LCD) &/or same resolution, then I think it wouldn't matter that much. But if there are improvements in any of those two, or even just being able to offer the iPad 3 with "no backlight bleeding" screens (with the same tech &/or resolution), then I would think that the resale value of the iPad 2 at that time is going to be way worse than it is when Apple transitions from the iPad to iPad 2.

 

[PBz]

Just checking in on this thread. My bleed-free brown-box service replacement is still looking great. Loving movies without the flashlights around the screen.

 

[interwebs]

mmo and WarpSpawn -

Arguing that the bleed issue is being exxagerated and people should calm down is not really being balanced so much as being contrarian for the sake of being contrarian. Apple commands a market price on these devices under the implicit assumption that they are defect-free. If they were to list the details of backlight bleed in their marketing literature as a feature, you can be assured that it would depress demand for the device and possibly damage the brand generally via bad press. Thus, it comes as little surprise that many people here express that they do not believe the defects are acceptable given what they paid, and so they seek a defect-free (or reasonable approximation) unit. I imagine all (or most) of us are well aware that people have different tolerance for and perception of defect. The mere fact that this is the case, however, doesn't provide much rational basis for criticizing people who wish to impose upon Apple the very quality standard the company trades upon.

Additionally, improvements to these products are driven by consumer demand. Criticizing others here for demanding high quality doesn't really help anyone. This isn't a cooperative enterprise; it is an adversarial one, and Apple doesn't need people to run to their defense. They are a business, and they will respond in kind. Thus, the group that needs people to defend their interests is consumers. You may not see this as a productive use of your time, but why bother going after everyone else?

 

[Built]

mmo and WarpSpawn -

Arguing that the bleed issue is being exxagerated and people should calm down is not really being balanced so much as being contrarian for the sake of being contrarian.

You may not see this as a productive use of your time, but why bother going after everyone else?

They are here for no other reason but to troll.

 

[blarivee]

What I would like to know is:

Say I buy an iPad2 now, and it had backlight bleeding, lets say about about an average amount.

I use this iPad2 for a year and then I sell it privately to someone else, so I can upgrade to iPad3.

What do I do if the buyers ask about backlight bleeding, or what do I do if I sell it and the buyer says I sold them a faulty product and start getting nasty and threatening bad feedback towards me?

What you can do is get a brown box replacement before your warranty is up at that point and sell that.

 

[WarpSpawn]

mmo and WarpSpawn -

Arguing that the bleed issue is being exxagerated and people should calm down is not really being balanced so much as being contrarian for the sake of being contrarian. Apple commands a market price on these devices under the implicit assumption that they are defect-free. If they were to list the details of backlight bleed in their marketing literature as a feature, you can be assured that it would depress demand for the device and possibly damage the brand generally via bad press. Thus, it comes as little surprise that many people here express that they do not believe the defects are acceptable given what they paid, and so they seek a defect-free (or reasonable approximation) unit. I imagine all (or most) of us are well aware that people have different tolerance for and perception of defect. The mere fact that this is the case, however, doesn't provide much rational basis for criticizing people who wish to impose upon Apple the very quality standard the company trades upon.

Additionally, improvements to these products are driven by consumer demand. Criticizing others here for demanding high quality doesn't really help anyone. This isn't a cooperative enterprise; it is an adversarial one, and Apple doesn't need people to run to their defense. They are a business, and they will respond in kind. Thus, the group that needs people to defend their interests is consumers. You may not see this as a productive use of your time, but why bother going after everyone else?

Not quite the point I was trying to make though. Like I said, I have seen someone who was happy with it being encouraged to do the pitch black, full brightness test. I have seen people assert, seemingly without evidence, that they are all dodgy and anyone who cannot see it is not looking hard enough. This may not relate to this thread specifically but there are certainly some extremes of behaviour and attitude at both ends of the spectrum. I chimed in here mainly because I thought mmo was getting jumped on a bit, as if he was at the other extreme himself, even though I thought he was being relatively moderate.

If my comments here do not apply to most posters, then perhaps there is little point banging on about it too much in this venue but I do feel that both extremes are unproductive and potentially offputting to new purchasers. Before purchasing my first example, I had seen various people insisting (as stated above) that they must all be dodgy. I had also seen the other extreme, suggesting that all are crybabies who dare to complain about this, as if nobody ever views stuff on dark screens (not to mention the really bad ones that can be seen regardless). This had the effect of first of all setting me up to almost expect a naff one, then making me unsure whether to speak out when I was unlucky enough to get one. Still, although they ultimately did not replace it for me due to stock shortages and I took it back to the original retailer for a refund, I do give credit to the Apple store staff who in no way made me feel like I was moaning about nothing.

So perhaps I am preaching to the choir then but what I guess I am really doing is urging a little moderation in people's attitudes to this. I am certainly not suggesting people should accept blatantly shoddy merchandise, though my view on what counts as shoddy might differ from some people's.

 

[SPEEDwithJJ]

They are here for no other reason but to troll.

Who knows? Maybe they are Apple's &/or Foxconn's PR gurus who posted in this thread with the intention to perform some kind of "damage limitation" exercise & try to influence people to believe that all these backlight leakages are all rumors & are not what the issues seemed to be?

Just kidding, of course.

 

[WarpSpawn]

They are here for no other reason but to troll.

No, I can assure you I am not. I do hope the general attitude around here is not to accuse anyone who does not appear to be siding with your point of view as being a troll. You may note, if you even took the time to glance at what I have actually written, that I have fully admitted there is a problem, having been on the receiving end of it myself. All I have done here is speak out against some of the extremes of attitudes shown by some of the more vocal people on this issue, as well as in defence of someone who seemed moderate but was being treated like an extremist.

I do admit that some of my comments would have been best saved until I had checked if those extremes were representative of a significant number of posters here. I feel the worst I am guilty of is leaping in without sufficient consideration.

 

[Built]

No, I can assure you I am not. I do hope the general attitude around here is not to accuse anyone who does not appear to be siding with your point of view as being a troll. You may note, if you even took the time to glance at what I have actually written, that I have fully admitted there is a problem, having been on the receiving end of it myself. All I have done here is speak out against some of the extremes of attitudes shown by some of the more vocal people on this issue, as well as in defence of someone who seemed moderate but was being treated like an extremist.

I do admit that some of my comments would have been best saved until I had checked if those extremes were representative of a significant number of posters here. I feel the worst I am guilty of is leaping in without sufficient consideration.

Why not try to read the ENTIRE thread the next time you do the "Shame, Shame" to those who simply want Apple to show due diligence in quality control? Try that before accusing others of being too "extreme."

Incidentally, I got a perfect unit on the 2nd try, so I am obviously not disgruntled. I have a desire, however, to see that Apple lives up to its quality control commitments, and the only way THAT is going to happen is if people complain.

With only 7 posts under your name...and your very recent join date...and the fact that all 7 posts lecture about how we are all "extreme,"...yes, I am sticking with my original opinion of you and your intentions.

 

[WarpSpawn]

Why not try to read the ENTIRE thread the next time you do the "Shame, Shame" to those who simply want Apple to show due diligence in quality control? Try that before accusing others of being too "extreme."

So you didn't read what I have actually posted then?

As I recall, I have suggested that the pictures people have posted are clearly dodgy and that in my opinion, any defect that cannot actually be seen in a reasonable range of viewing conditions (including low lighting) are not really a problem. How this equates to "shame on you for demanding some semblance of quality control", I have no idea.

I have admitted I may have been a little hasty in some of my comments but I stand by my opinion of what is a reasonable standard. As far as I could see, mmo's views seemed moderate and compatible with my own standards, so I felt that some were being unfair in their responses.

 

[SPEEDwithJJ]

What you can do is get a brown box replacement before your warranty is up at that point and sell that.

Sure, you definitely can do that.

However, I humbly think that doing so is going to open another "can of worms". The reason being that the replacement iPad 2 will have a different serial number to the one on the packaging box (assuming you've kept it & will sell your iPad 2 along with it). The buyer will probably be very understanding if he/she knew about some of the backlight bleeding issues & what he/she is getting is a replacement unit without any significant backlight bleeding. If not, he/she may end up accusing you of being fishy in your sales (serial numbers of iPad 2 & the box do not match) & it is just going to be more hassle.

Of course, if this iPad 2 is not going to be sold later on, then none of these hassles will take place. The above are just my opinion & it may not actually happen or apply to anyone of you.

 

[interwebs]

Not quite the point I was trying to make though. Like I said, I have seen someone who was happy with it being encouraged to do the pitch black, full brightness test. I have seen people assert, seemingly without evidence, that they are all dodgy and anyone who cannot see it is not looking hard enough. This may not relate to this thread specifically but there are certainly some extremes of behaviour and attitude at both ends of the spectrum. I chimed in here mainly because I thought mmo was getting jumped on a bit, as if he was at the other extreme himself, even though I thought he was being relatively moderate.

If my comments here do not apply to most posters, then perhaps there is little point banging on about it too much in this venue but I do feel that both extremes are unproductive and potentially offputting to new purchasers. Before purchasing my first example, I had seen various people insisting (as stated above) that they must all be dodgy. I had also seen the other extreme, suggesting that all are crybabies who dare to complain about this, as if nobody ever views stuff on dark screens (not to mention the really bad ones that can be seen regardless). This had the effect of first of all setting me up to almost expect a naff one, then making me unsure whether to speak out when I was unlucky enough to get one. Still, although they ultimately did not replace it for me due to stock shortages and I took it back to the original retailer for a refund, I do give credit to the Apple store staff who in no way made me feel like I was moaning about nothing.

So perhaps I am preaching to the choir then but what I guess I am really doing is urging a little moderation in people's attitudes to this. I am certainly not suggesting people should accept blatantly shoddy merchandise, though my view on what counts as shoddy might differ from some people's.

My point was that you (and mmo) aren't staking out a moderate view. Being 'moderate' cannot be a virtue without a foundation in rationality, and simply staking out an approximate "middle ground" between views doesn't generate a rational viewpoint. The moderate view, in terms of recognizing the operative facts of this case, is to recognize that Apple trades upon a certain quality standard and the price is set under an implicit assumption of defect-free, and thus people are responding with rational expectations. Apple even goes out of their way to advertise the putative quality of the screens on the devices. People may have different standards for what they consider acceptable, but it is not reasonable (or helpful to consumers generally) to criticize people as "extreme" for demanding a defect-free product.

 

[mmo]

I chimed in here mainly because I thought mmo was getting jumped on a bit, as if he was at the other extreme himself, even though I thought he was being relatively moderate.

Thank you! I do feel that myself also I must say.
People get surprisingly hostile...

All I did was offer an alternative view, and I feel I was being quite polite even.
MANY times I have stated that I ALSO think the backlight bleeding is not good enough, but have simply tried helping people maybe look at it as less of a complete showstopper.

I have sympathy for the cause of pressuring apple into performing better qa, though, but I do think that people must also consider the fact that SOME backlight bleeding is acceptable. My original intent with posting was to question people who keep exchanging because they are able to spot a bit of bleeding under completely unrealistic conditions. I do NOT question exchanging some of the more extreme examples posted here. If apple get their qa sorted and all iPads are suddenly perfect, maybe I'll even exchange myself.

 

[WarpSpawn]

Incidentally, I got a perfect unit on the 2nd try, so I am obviously not disgruntled. I have a desire, however, to see that Apple lives up to its quality control commitments, and the only way THAT is going to happen is if people complain.

I agree.

With only 7 posts under your name...and your very recent join date...and the fact that all 7 posts lecture about how we are all "extreme,"...yes, I am sticking with my original opinion of you and your intentions.

Then you are still not reading what I am posting, or are merely skimming for something that seems inflamatory. First of all, there has to be something that prompts someone to sign up for a new forum. I had been lurking since I bought an iPad and was considering it for a while, though regret it was something negative in this case and that my first posts have been a bit too confrontational.

Secondly, I have gone to some lengths to explain that I am in no way suggesting you are all a bunch of extremists and have admitted I have been too hasty. However, I still feel that the handling of someone who seemed to show pretty moderate views left something to be desired.

 

[WarpSpawn]

My point was that you (and mmo) aren't staking out a moderate view. Being 'moderate' cannot be a virtue without a foundation in rationality, and simply staking out an approximate "middle ground" between views doesn't generate a rational viewpoint. The moderate view, in terms of recognizing the operative facts of this case, is to recognize that Apple trades upon a certain quality standard and the price is set under an implicit assumption of defect-free, and thus people are responding with rational expectations. Apple even goes out of their way to advertise the putative quality of the screens on the devices. People may have different standards for what they consider acceptable, but it is not reasonable (or helpful to consumers generally) to criticize people as "extreme" for demanding a defect-free product.

Look, I still do not seem to be making myself clear and perhaps it is best for all concerned if I give up sooner rather than later.

Yes, Apple is considered a premium brand. Yes, people reasonably expect high standards from them. I am merely stating an opinion that a defect that cannot be seen and does not affect the enjoyment of using a product is essentially irrelevant in judging the quality of the product. Those that can be seen, fair enough. It is faulty. Take it back. I welcome others to disagree with me on this but it is my opinion and I am sticking to it.

Once again, I am not accusing you all of being extremists or even anyone in particular. Some of my comments have not been as well thought out as they should be and I apologise for that. Really. So can people please try and understand this before misunderstanding or misrepresenting me further?

 

[SPEEDwithJJ]

Yes, Apple is considered a premium brand. Yes, people reasonably expect high standards from them. I am merely stating an opinion that a defect that cannot be seen and does not affect the enjoyment of using a product is essentially irrelevant in judging the quality of the product. Those that can be seen, fair enough. It is faulty. Take it back.

Agreed on that.

 

[mmo]

My point was that you (and mmo) aren't staking out a moderate view. Being 'moderate' cannot be a virtue without a foundation in rationality, and simply staking out an approximate "middle ground" between views doesn't generate a rational viewpoint. The moderate view, in terms of recognizing the operative facts of this case, is to recognize that Apple trades upon a certain quality standard and the price is set under an implicit assumption of defect-free, and thus people are responding with rational expectations. Apple even goes out of their way to advertise the putative quality of the screens on the devices. People may have different standards for what they consider acceptable, but it is not reasonable (or helpful to consumers generally) to criticize people as "extreme" for demanding a defect-free product.

I really wasn't considering the grander scheme of things when I first posted. I simply wanted to help people realise that maybe this is actually never a problem in real use (which I still think it isn't unless you have one of the extreme cases). As I said, you've gotta pick your fights, and this is likely a fight you'll never win because the defect you are dealing with is something most people never notice (again maybe excluding the extreme cases).

If you want to fight the fight, please do it, though. Some good might come out of it. Has anyone tried any legal options yet, I wonder? Would be interesting to see what authorities felt about it.
Generally, I also do feel it's a bit interesting that the media have ignored the issue. And that people in stores and generally everyone else who have an iPad 2 that I talk to simply do not know of the issue. I am just trying to offer an alternative viewpoint here. Consider that most people do not even SEE this!

 

[WarpSpawn]

I wonder what has been done to try and bring it to the media's attention. If anyone has tried contacting any of the mainstream magazines or tech websites, for example. I have yet to see a review that mentions it, though I do not know if review units typically come from the regular production runs or not. I believe I have seen one site acknowledge it after the fact, but not consider it a big deal. Perhaps part of the problem is that it often seems to be described as something only really visible in low light and on a black screen, which overlooks the fact that many have more serious problems than that.

 

[SPEEDwithJJ]

And that people in stores and generally everyone else who have an iPad 2 that I talk to simply do not know of the issue.

I personally experienced that just last week.

When I returned my iPad 2 last Thursday, the BestBuy employee & the GeekSquad guy looked at me like I've just robbed a bank or some other heinous crime when I told them that I'm returning the iPad 2 because of backlight bleeding. I definitely felt embarrassed, given the look on their faces. Not only that, they told me that that was the first time since that store carries iPad 2 units for sale that anyone has ever returned an iPad 2 due to backlight bleeding issues.

Worst of all was that although I pointed out the backlight bleeds to them, they both said that they couldn't see it at all & told me that such bleeding are the norm for all the iPad 2 units. They politely insisted that I would get the same backlight bleeding even if I open up all the rest of the iPad 2 units that they had in store that day. They simply refused to let me make an exchange, but at least they let me returned it, which I am very grateful for.

 

[WarpSpawn]

I personally experienced that just last week.

When I returned my iPad 2 last Thursday, the BestBuy employee & the GeekSquad guy looked at me like I've just robbed a bank or something when I told them that I'm returning the iPad 2 because of backlight bleeding. Not only that, they told me that that was the first time since that store carries iPad 2 units for sale that anyone has ever returned an iPad 2 due to backlight bleeding issues.

Worst of all was that although I pointed out the backlight bleeds to them, they both said that they couldn't see it at all & told me that such bleeding are the norm for all the iPad 2 units. They politely insisted that I would get the same backlight bleeding even if I open up all the rest of the iPad 2 units that they had in store that day. They simply refused to let me make an exchange, but at least they let me returned it.

When I bought my first one, I made a point of asking the Apple rep in the store about it (was a PC World here in the UK). He claimed to have seen a small number out of hundreds that had it, which I took with a pinch of salt as an admission that they had dozens back would probably not have been forthcoming even if true.

When I took it into an Apple store, thinking they were more likely to have stock to replace it, they did not admit to any particular knowledge of it, though certainly did not seem surprised and it was not a difficult sell at all that it was faulty, even before I showed the camera issue.

When I took it back to a branch of Currys (same company) for a refund, the guy I dealt with was substantially more sceptical and seemed to even have trouble with the concept.

I suspect part of the variation in awareness though, stems from the limited availability. The PC World store presumably had sold a good number and were certainly not unaware, whether they downplayed it or not. The Apple store no doubt had shifted a few as well. The Currys store was a pretty small branch and had probably seen very few of them. If all stores had them in stock from day one, it might be that there would be a more uniform rate of returns and few stores would have avoided seeing them.

 

[mmo]

I personally experienced that just last week.

When I returned my iPad 2 last Thursday, the BestBuy employee & the GeekSquad guy looked at me like I've just robbed a bank or some other heinous crime when I told them that I'm returning the iPad 2 because of backlight bleeding. I definitely felt embarrassed, given the look on their faces. Not only that, they told me that that was the first time since that store carries iPad 2 units for sale that anyone has ever returned an iPad 2 due to backlight bleeding issues.

Worst of all was that although I pointed out the backlight bleeds to them, they both said that they couldn't see it at all & told me that such bleeding are the norm for all the iPad 2 units. They politely insisted that I would get the same backlight bleeding even if I open up all the rest of the iPad 2 units that they had in store that day. They simply refused to let me make an exchange, but at least they let me returned it, which I am very grateful for.

Precisely! They NEVER had anyone else return an iPad due to this problem!
That does tell us something...