Backlight bleeding

[Piggie]

Precisely! They NEVER had anyone else return an iPad due to this problem!
That does tell us something...

I thought most Apple stores said that to customers by default.
Given the amount of talk all over the net about this issue, I find it hard to believe these salespeople when they come out with statements like this.

 

[peaceActivist]

I'll definitely grant that some of these are pretty bad, and should be replaced.

Most of them are in normal lighting conditions, I accept. Still, the brightness IS turned unreasonably high which makes it look much worse.
Of course, though, we can all agree that it should be perfect on all brightness settings. All I am saying is that sometimes it's not worth it to LOOK for errors.

Also, as I say, I think there are two cases: those that REALLY are bad and those that are relatively normal for an LCD screen. Some of the ones shown ARE really bad.

I also think that because there have been unreasonably many bad screens, it has drawn attention towards the backlight bleed of those that are just normal, and some users suddenly have become a bit obsessed with looking for it.

+1 and agreed. at least you're more level headed and logical than most of the people that assume that.

 

[WarpSpawn]

Precisely! They NEVER had anyone else return an iPad due to this problem!
That does tell us something...

Probably a combination of factors, tbh. They may also have had a few that the successfully turned away without swapping it. For one thing, most examples would probably not be visible in store lighting conditions. Or very hard to spot if so. That is why I made a point of loading pics onto it (which I confess were taken in low lighting, so sue me 😛). The Currys guy did not seem to get at first that I had a picture of my screen, on my screen. Not hard, surely?

 

[WarpSpawn]

I thought most Apple stores said that to customers by default.
Given the amount of talk all over the net about this issue, I find it hard to believe these salespeople when they come out with statements like this.

Maybe, though even some large stores in the UK have been getting deliveries in single figures. It is perfectly plausible that the genuinely had not sold any dodgy ones, or else had not sold them to people who noticed or thought to return them.

 

[MayorQuimby]

I spoke with a guy at Best Buy after returning mine and he said that his personal ipad 2 had it and that he was gong to just live with it. He said it was a known issue and that they had gotten a handful of returns because of it.

 

[peaceActivist]

I personally experienced that just last week. 😱

When I returned my iPad 2 last Thursday, the BestBuy employee & the GeekSquad guy looked at me like I've just robbed a bank or some other heinous crime when I told them that I'm returning the iPad 2 because of backlight bleeding. 😱 I definitely felt embarrassed, given the look on their faces. 😱 Not only that, they told me that that was the first time since that store carries iPad 2 units for sale that anyone has ever returned an iPad 2 due to backlight bleeding issues. 😱

Worst of all was that although I pointed out the backlight bleeds to them, they both said that they couldn't see it at all & told me that such bleeding are the norm for all the iPad 2 units. 😱 They politely insisted that I would get the same backlight bleeding even if I open up all the rest of the iPad 2 units that they had in store that day. 😱 They simply refused to let me make an exchange, but at least they let me returned it, which I am very grateful for. 🙂

Just a little thing about those guys behind the retail desks, and I hope I don't offend any of you who do have those jobs. I use to work behind the counter like that. When people would return high ticket items that i wish i could get, i would snob at any return for any reason. The reason? Because they shouldn't be picky about owning a high ticket item. I can only assume that they have the same mentality whether they are teenagers or adults. It's a part of society. They'll also tell you "I've never heard of that." and try their best to make you feel unworthy...which is the most fun they'll get out of their job, again, i'm speaking from personal experience...i was an ass. Then again, it was a minimum wage type of job that i never took seriously, just to pass time during the summer. Don't take what they say to heart or get offended by it...they deal with customers crap all the time, this is the most fun they'll have all day.

 

[interwebs]

Look, I still do not seem to be making myself clear and perhaps it is best for all concerned if I give up sooner rather than later.

Yes, Apple is considered a premium brand. Yes, people reasonably expect high standards from them. I am merely stating an opinion that a defect that cannot be seen and does not affect the enjoyment of using a product is essentially irrelevant in judging the quality of the product. Those that can be seen, fair enough. It is faulty. Take it back. I welcome others to disagree with me on this but it is my opinion and I am sticking to it.

Once again, I am not accusing you all of being extremists or even anyone in particular. Some of my comments have not been as well thought out as they should be and I apologise for that. Really. So can people please try and understand this before misunderstanding or misrepresenting me further?

Okay. This visibility criterion is the very sort of judgment call I already talked about; different consumers have different tolerance for defect (and of different types). It isn't part of the design to have backlight bleed and thus it is a defect, irrespective of whether one cares or not. The expectation for what should be delivered by Apple is being set largely by Apple themselves based on how the product is marketed and the price commanded.

Anyway, you're obviously free to have different standards as a consumer.

I really wasn't considering the grander scheme of things when I first posted. I simply wanted to help people realise that maybe this is actually never a problem in real use (which I still think it isn't unless you have one of the extreme cases). As I said, you've gotta pick your fights, and this is likely a fight you'll never win because the defect you are dealing with is something most people never notice (again maybe excluding the extreme cases).

If you want to fight the fight, please do it, though. Some good might come out of it. Has anyone tried any legal options yet, I wonder? Would be interesting to see what authorities felt about it.
Generally, I also do feel it's a bit interesting that the media have ignored the issue. And that people in stores and generally everyone else who have an iPad 2 that I talk to simply do not know of the issue. I am just trying to offer an alternative viewpoint here. Consider that most people do not even SEE this!

I don't think it's necessarily unsound advice to suggest to people that they should think about how much it impacts them when deciding what to do. On the other hand, it seems implicit that people have made such a consideration and they decided it impacts them enough to return their ipad. So, I'd be more inclined to agree on the issue of whether people ought to tolerate the defect if Apple either instituted differential pricing to accomodate the defect or made backlight bleed (or other attributes) an advertised feature of the product. Otherwise, they trade upon a tacit representation of the product as defect-free and there is little reason for consumers, who are so inclined, to tolerate such defects as defect-free was integrated into the cost they paid.

Still keeping in mind the issue of impact, I do think it is worth considering the relevance of backlight bleed relative to the other defects I, and a few other posters, have pointed out (color, falloff, shift, etc.) since those may be more noticeable in everyday use. My unit has some backlight bleed that is kind of annoying, but on the other hand it has better color, brightness, and less shift than most of the screens I've seen and about average falloff. I am still considering returning it, though, as I do find the falloff distracting while reading papers/articles with a white background (which is most of what I read, and I have no control over the color).

 

[Piggie]

Just a little thing about those guys behind the retail desks, and I hope I don't offend any of you who do have those jobs. I use to work behind the counter like that. When people would return high ticket items that i wish i could get, i would snob at any return for any reason. The reason? Because they shouldn't be picky about owning a high ticket item. I can only assume that they have the same mentality whether they are teenagers or adults. It's a part of society. They'll also tell you "I've never heard of that." and try their best to make you feel unworthy...which is the most fun they'll get out of their job, again, i'm speaking from personal experience...i was an ass. Then again, it was a minimum wage type of job that i never took seriously, just to pass time during the summer. Don't take what they say to heart or get offended by it...they deal with customers crap all the time, this is the most fun they'll have all day.

I don't understand what you are saying?

You mean people who pay top price for the high end products should not be so picky if they have faults?

I would of thought the opposite would be true, you would think they were stupid if they complained about a cheap product not being perfect, but were correct to expect an expensive item to not have faults.

 

[SPEEDwithJJ]

Probably a combination of factors, tbh. They may also have had a few that the successfully turned away without swapping it. For one thing, most examples would probably not be visible in store lighting conditions. Or very hard to spot if so. That is why I made a point of loading pics onto it (which I confess were taken in low lighting, so sue me 😛). The Currys guy did not seem to get at first that I had a picture of my screen, on my screen. Not hard, surely?

That kinda makes sense to me as I only managed to get my return refunded through store credit. 🙁

I'll definitely have to purchase my iPad (2nd try) from BestBuy again. I just checked the online inventory tracker & my local store has got some iPad 2 units in stock but I still felt embarrassed that I think I'm probably gonna be buying it at another BestBuy store further away from my home. 😱 I might also wait for another 2 or 3 months before trying my luck again. 😱 Hopefully by then, there are no backlight bleeding screens in the iPad 2 units. 😀

 

[Built]

Just a little thing about those guys behind the retail desks, and I hope I don't offend any of you who do have those jobs. I use to work behind the counter like that. When people would return high ticket items that i wish i could get, i would snob at any return for any reason. The reason? Because they shouldn't be picky about owning a high ticket item. I can only assume that they have the same mentality whether they are teenagers or adults. It's a part of society. They'll also tell you "I've never heard of that." and try their best to make you feel unworthy...which is the most fun they'll get out of their job, again, i'm speaking from personal experience...i was an ass. Then again, it was a minimum wage type of job that i never took seriously, just to pass time during the summer. Don't take what they say to heart or get offended by it...they deal with customers crap all the time, this is the most fun they'll have all day.

I worked retail throughout my college years and never practiced it, nor did I ever see it practiced by my coworkers...but then again, I've never been one to be jealous of others for their success.

Besides, simply because somebody purchases a "high-end" item does not mean that they have significant disposable wealth. People of modest means make trade-offs every day for those things that are important to them.

For the most part, I have been treated with respect when making exchanges/returns wherever I go. On the very few occasions where I ran into an "ass," I simply gathered my item(s), and reported the issue to either the store manager or to Corporate. I am not there to fight, and if the salesperson is looking for a fight, I am not willing to give them one.

That kinda makes sense to me as I only managed to get my return refunded through store credit. 🙁

I'll definitely have to purchase my iPad (2nd try) from BestBuy again. I just checked the online inventory tracker & my local store has got some iPad 2 units in stock but I still felt embarrassed that I think I'm probably gonna be buying it at another BestBuy store further away from my home. 😱 I might also wait for another 2 or 3 months before trying my luck again. 😱 Hopefully by then, there are no backlight bleeding screens in the iPad 2 units. 😀

I wish I could have purchased my iPad 2 at Best Buy...I purchased my iPad 1 there. I am Reward Zone Premier Silver and have always been treated well by the store. In one or two instances, I contacted Corporate, I was treated very well, also. I like the store, even though many like to bash it here. 🙂

The problem was that none of my local Best Buy stores received any significant stocks...and I just didn't have the time to go chasing units LOL

I will say, however, again, that I have had good luck with Best Buy. For example, they did an awesome price match for me late last year on a MBP. It was handled courteously by all concerned, and saved me over 200 bucks, AND I got my Reward Zone points.

 

[WarpSpawn]

Okay. This visibility criterion is the very sort of judgment call I already talked about; different consumers have different tolerance for defect (and of different types). It isn't part of the design to have backlight bleed and thus it is a defect, irrespective of whether one cares or not. The expectation for what should be delivered by Apple is being set largely by Apple themselves based on how the product is marketed and the price commanded.

Anyway, you're obviously free to have different standards as a consumer.

I agree with you to a point. Any product will deviate from the original spec to some degree. What is considered reasonable tolerance will obviously vary depending on the product, its price and intended use. Not to mention personal opinion on the part of the consumer and as I have already agreed, Apple can certainly be reasonably expected to set the bar pretty high.

 

[WarpSpawn]

Besides, simply because somebody purchases a "high-end" item does not mean that they have significant disposable wealth. People of modest means make trade-offs every day for those things that are important to them.

Absolutely. I only have mine because I sold some stuff on eBay to help fund it.

 

[SPEEDwithJJ]

I agree with you to a point. Any product will deviate from the original spec to some degree. What is considered reasonable tolerance will obviously vary depending on the product, its price and intended use. Not to mention personal opinion on the part of the consumer and as I have already agreed, Apple can certainly be reasonably expected to set the bar pretty high.

Quite true.

There are some companies who even have disclaimers (printed in small font size letters) such as "specifications are subject to change without notice" & so on in their product advertisements, documentation, literature, etc. 😱

 

[blarivee]

Sure, you definitely can do that. 🙂

However, I humbly think that doing so is going to open another "can of worms". The reason being that the replacement iPad 2 will have a different serial number to the one on the packaging box (assuming you've kept it & will sell your iPad 2 along with it). The buyer will probably be very understanding if he/she knew about some of the backlight bleeding issues & what he/she is getting is a replacement unit without any significant backlight bleeding. If not, he/she may end up accusing you of being fishy in your sales (serial numbers of iPad 2 & the box do not match) & it is just going to be more hassle.

Of course, if this iPad 2 is not going to be sold later on, then none of these hassles will take place. 🙂 The above are just my opinion & it may not actually happen or apply to anyone of you. 😱

Hmm good point. I'd say just disclose the fact it has been replaced because of backlight bleeding. Besides Apple says brown box are new units so tell the buyer the same thing 🙂

 

[Piggie]

Besides, simply because somebody purchases a "high-end" item does not mean that they have significant disposable wealth. People of modest means make trade-offs every day for those things that are important to them.

Oh yeah, that bugs the hell out of me.
I work with a guy on at LEAST twice the pay level I'm on. He's just come back from a $6000+ two week holiday.
I might come in with a new iPad2 and he makes the remark that I'm lucky and I must have cash to spare as he can't afford such things.
Really makes me annoyed. 😡

 

[peaceActivist]

I worked retail throughout my college years and never practiced it, nor did I ever see it practiced by my coworkers...but then again, I've never been one to be jealous of others for their success.

Besides, simply because somebody purchases a "high-end" item does not mean that they have significant disposable wealth. People of modest means make trade-offs every day for those things that are important to them.

For the most part, I have been treated with respect when making exchanges/returns wherever I go. On the very few occasions where I ran into an "ass," I simply gathered my item(s), and reported the issue to either the store manager or to Corporate. I am not there to fight, and if the salesperson is looking for a fight, I am not willing to give them one.

Yeah lol, its not jealousy as much as it is out of boredom. I understand what you're saying though.

 

[Hugh Mann]

Besides, simply because somebody purchases a "high-end" item does not mean that they have significant disposable wealth. People of modest means make trade-offs every day for those things that are important to them.

Agreed. The only reason I considered getting one is that I won an iPad 1 in an on-line game. The wife won an iPod as second prize. We immediately returned them to an Apple store for credit, just prior to the announcement of the iPad 2 (so we got full credit for them). The credit for both these devices equaled to the price of a 64GB 3G iPad (before taxes). Granted, I could buy the low-end model, and use the extra credit towards accessories, but I figured I have the credit for the high-end so that's the one I want. If it weren't for that prize, I probably wouldn't even be giving a tablet (by any maker) a second thought. Of course, if it weren't for the backlight bleeding on the one I purchased and the swapped unit, I'd actually have one now. 🙄

 

[peaceActivist]

I don't understand what you are saying?

You mean people who pay top price for the high end products should not be so picky if they have faults?

I would of thought the opposite would be true, you would think they were stupid if they complained about a cheap product not being perfect, but were correct to expect an expensive item to not have faults.

It's the exclusiveness of owning a high end product that also happens to cost more than 300 dollars...thats what I meant, sorry.

Actually its quite the opposite, on cheap items, sales clerk would believe 'why return? just buy another one and throw the other out, its cheap enough.', versus an expensive item thats hard to get a hold of they'd think 'i can't believe you'd return this for any reason, you're insane, people everywhere want this! You should consider yourself lucky.', although thats the mentality i've seen and heard and also experienced. I find that its usually the people who don't have it yet are the ones to judge us on this obsession on a screen with minimal bleed until they experience it for themselves on their own hard earned cash.

case in point, i purchased on launch, i noticed the bleed and voiced my opinion at work at how I felt like it wasn't acceptable. I was ridiculed at the office for being too picky and having keen eyes. Fast forward 2 weeks later when almost everyone in the office has one now and they're all asking me "how bad was your bleed, can you look at mine and tell me if its okay?", others like the receptionist said "i have to leave early cause i have a genius appointment..." "what for?" "I have these weird yellow spots on the screen...what do you think?" lmao, in my head i'm thinking "you're all so quick to judge when its not your cash being spent, but the second you make the dive and see flaws...its serious time. hahaha." I guess my point is, people will say it doesn't bother them everywhere and anywhere and try to save face if they have the problem for the sake of looking "normal", but behind closed doors they're itching their head for a remedy.

 

[MayorQuimby]

The fact that Apple has yet to 'fix' this issue leads me to believe one of the following things are occurring:

1. LCD suppliers have offered to install a 'fix' at an increased cost per iPad which has been turned down by Apple.

2. LCD suppliers have offered to fix the problem but it would require a halt to production which Apple has turned down.

3. Return rates despite the prevalence of this issue are very very low (ie .1%).

4. Apple has no intention of addressing the issue at all.

 

[nealh]

The fact that Apple has yet to 'fix' this issue leads me to believe one of the following things are occurring:

1. LCD suppliers have offered to install a 'fix' at an increased cost per iPad which has been turned down by Apple.

2. LCD suppliers have offered to fix the problem but it would require a halt to production which Apple has turned down.

3. Return rates despite the prevalence of this issue are very very low (ie .1%).

4. Apple has no intention of addressing the issue at all.

I think it likely 3 & 4. I dont the fix will cost much as there are good one out there. The return rates are unknown but I have seen numerous iPad2. Some from friends. Those had light leakage but I said nothing. The white one was the worst. Yuck!

I saw a store display that had yellow blotch in normal lighting in the corner it looked horrible.

Apple figures most will not notice/care or hassle to return.

 

[Piggie]

The fact that Apple has yet to 'fix' this issue leads me to believe one of the following things are occurring:

1. LCD suppliers have offered to install a 'fix' at an increased cost per iPad which has been turned down by Apple.

2. LCD suppliers have offered to fix the problem but it would require a halt to production which Apple has turned down.

3. Return rates despite the prevalence of this issue are very very low (ie .1%).

4. Apple has no intention of addressing the issue at all.

There is the other option.

5. It's nothing to do with the LCD panel. It's totally Apple's fault for the way they fix the LCD panel inside the iPad2's body, and hence it would mean going back to the drawing board and a redesign to fix it and they won't do that.

 

[Muscleflex]

So enough talk about behind the counter.

Anyone else gotten a nice good replacement this week?

 

[btownguy]

I too am wondering if it's safe to go in and get a replacement for this issue. I have a ticket/case number from Apple and am just waiting until confirmed reports of brown-box good replacements start coming in.

 

[nealh]

There is the other option.

5. It's nothing to do with the LCD panel. It's totally Apple's fault for the way they fix the LCD panel inside the iPad2's body, and hence it would mean going back to the drawing board and a redesign to fix it and they won't do that.

This must be a part of the issue, I suppose. If this was the case then there should be rare good ones at best or none without light leakage. Changing the panel manufacturer would be of no help as well.

If I had to do it over again and I wish I could I would just get an iPad1.🙄

 

[Built]

I too am wondering if it's safe to go in and get a replacement for this issue. I have a ticket/case number from Apple and am just waiting until confirmed reports of brown-box good replacements start coming in.

It's hit-and-miss, with brown box replacements starting with serial numbers DLXFK having the best luck as indicated in User512s chart a few pages back.

The spottiness, however, of success is revealed by later weeks' production batches exhibiting the same, or worse, light bleed when compared to early weeks.

My Genius, when I did my exchange on 5/13, admitted that his iPad 2 also had light bleed and he exchanged. He and I were both pleasantly surprised to open a brown box replacement (DLXFK) and find no light bleed, so I did my exchange then and there.

I know it's a tough decision to make...It just doesn't seem like Apple is doing anything to remedy the situation.

One of the problems for consumers is that the nature of the problem versus the way in which the iPad is constructed would make this a very costly problem for Apple if it were to admit that there is a widespread problem. When a manufacturer recalls an item, many times they can fix the problem and then sell any returned items as refurbs.

In this case, since the screen is held down by adhesive and not clips as in the iPad 1, it would be nearly impossible for Apple to refurb returned units and make them bleed-free. If the screen were held down by clips, they could disassemble easily and remedy the situation. However, the removal of the iPad 2 screen would require complete removal of the adhesive...every last bit...and reapplying adhesive evenly. I jusdt don't think it's possible...at least not in a cost-effective manner. I really did hold out hope that Apple was going to fix the problem but here we are in June (almost) and still nothing which leads me to believe that no fix is on its way. Just my humble opinion...