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Back in the day, mid 2000s or earlier, more often than anyone wanted. Surface mount technology and soldering components made things smaller, cooler, and more reliable. The downside is the Field Repairable Unit (FRU) became larger and more expensive. Upside is it is easier to swap a board that troubleshoot it, and lower skilled techs can do the swap.
Define "more often".
 
I just swapped the drive every time Apple had to "repair" my cMBP.

I am going to guess you were the exception more than the rule.

I just don't see most Mac users having any idea on how to open up their system, let alone swap a drive and reassemble it. And on some systems it was really hard. iMacs used to require some deep surgery to get to the drive.
 
I am going to guess you were the exception more than the rule.
For IT departments it would be trivial.

Another point against Apple laptops in the enterprise.

Or anybody who actually cares about their data.
 
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We have a mix of them at work, and I have a little laugh with myself each time they need to do something or connect up to a display. They all carry little bags of dongles which amuses me.....(there's your extra weight ;) )

or, as many of us would think: your peripherals need upgrading.
peripherals are peripherals.
apple pushes forward.
deal with it.
many large corporations as well as smaller enterprises are learning that creating faster plug and play environments based on advanced platforms give the organization advantages.
 
It actually has more vulnerable connectors that can get easily damaged compared to a single board. Thats why iPads & iPod Touch & iPhones are so reliable.
How would people damage them if they normally don't open their devices?
 
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I am not so sure about that...I am still using my ultra robust Unibody 2012 non Retina MBP (Quad Core i7, Nvidia GPU), that last one where you can replace nearly everything (RAM, Disk, Batterie, Fans and more). It is still powerful and in use only because I was able to upgrade to 16GB RAM, 512GB SSD, a new batterie and MacOS Mojave. I much doubt that this 2019 MBP is still usable with the original unchangeable configuration in 7 years....
SSDs arent getting much more faster, RAM is more or less not going to change your workflows unless you are in very scientific field or very specific workflows. Batteries can be changed by 3rd parties.
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How would people damage them if they normally don't open their devices?
Dropping. Getting knocked around in bags, luggage, water spills, rain,etc.
 
I am not so sure about that...I am still using my ultra robust Unibody 2012 non Retina MBP (Quad Core i7, Nvidia GPU), that last one where you can replace nearly everything (RAM, Disk, Batterie, Fans and more). It is still powerful and in use only because I was able to upgrade to 16GB RAM, 512GB SSD, a new batterie and MacOS Mojave. I much doubt that this 2019 MBP is still usable with the original unchangeable configuration in 7 years....
I was looking for a laptop with 32GiB RAM around 2014.
 
You can't use a desktop on the move.
If you are a person with 32GB needs now, you might need 64 ,128 or 256 GB RAM in the future. In those cases I would say you should get a Windows Tower,Mac Pro or an enterprise tower.
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You can't use a desktop on the move.
Laptops in general aren't meant for forever expansion. Desktops are more suitable for that.
 
If you are a person with 32GB needs now, you might need 64 ,128 or 256 GB RAM in the future. In those cases I would say you should get a Windows Tower, or an enterprise tower.
You could put 32GiB RAM in a power laptop in 2014. Now you can put 128GiB.

You cannot use a tower in transport.
 
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I also work in a highly regulated industry with regards to document control. Cloud doesn't always mean AWS, Azure, or Google. For example, we run our own inhouse datacenter with a document management system from a vendor that complies with our regs. I would consider this "cloud" as to the user it is.

True. I never considered that as "cloud". and that's how we are doing it. 2 datacentres replicating data with multiple sets of backups of all devices.

Unfortunately, some of our software is massively legacy. such is banking.

Anyways, Most of that all becomes moot once we finish our horizons environment. Than I don't care what our end users use. Life will be so much easier.

The issues you raise with regards to data plans and employees traveling or being offsite, all those issues apply equally to a laptop with removable storage. As I said, those are data policy logistics, not computer hardware related. They'd be just as screwed if they had a Lenovo that died while traveling away from WiFi unless they happen to be traveling with their IT guy who has a suitcase full of spare parts.

Thankfully, our users don't typically go far from head office. They do move around a lot, but within a reasonably managable geographic area. Typically, even if the user is out, we can have a working copy in their hands within 15 minutes. something happens to the machine and it's not the drive? 5 minute swap to identical machine. User is out the door.


I'm not sure what you mean by "we cannot afford to lose the data drives when / if we have to ship the device to repair."

Sorry, that came out more confusing than intended.

We are not allowed to ship the storage medium to repair centers that have data on them.

when we ship back, we swap in a non-data used clone.

I know, much of our rules seem draconic. But we have thousands of people's data, banking, personal, etc. It would kill me to have a breach on my watch.


Bottom line is this: Having soldered storage is a pain, but it's a logistics problem for IT departments and it's workable. In other words, it's not a gating issue.

Everything is workable. That's how I tackle every single problem.

But at the same time, Why put up with something that adds time or cost to a process that already is pretty good?

I accept doing things like soldered down stuff when there is either a dramatically massive technologically reason for it, or some sort of design restraint that cannot be overcome under any other means.

There's a pattern of Apple devices that seem like they are choosing to go these routes for the purpose of driving sales. Not because of real technical reason. They COULD do it. They just don't want to.
 
The company is going to send the computer to the supplier with data on it?

1. True
but...
2. If the data is that sensitive, wouldn't it be encrypted? And/Or part of a network-user/network-folder configuration on a corp server where the user logs into their data from an otherwise blank device?
 
For IT departments it would be trivial.

Another point against Apple laptops in the enterprise.

Or anybody who actually cares about their data.

I'm not advocating for soldered or thinner anything, but...

If they care about the data, wouldn't it be encrypted and/or on a corp. server and not on a laptop that could just as easily be stolen while traveling on business, at a coffee shop before going to work, or from a car when going to the bathroom at a gas station, as compromised when sending in for service?

There's plenty of good reasons to want to be able to quickly service a device in-house in a corp environment, but I'm not sure data management/tracking/security is one of them?
 
1. True
but...
2. If the data is that sensitive, wouldn't it be encrypted? And/Or part of a network-user/network-folder configuration on a corp server where the user logs into their data from an otherwise blank device?
In the common case you would just need to login.

When I had to give my Macs for repair, they asked for the password.
 
Except, NOBODY is asking that.

your hyperbole in attempt to brush off legitimate concerns raised with these devices is noted.

We're not saying we want to be able to build our own MacBook Pro laptop. We're saying, in an enterprise environment there are serious repairability concerns that limit the reach Mac's can reach due to costly and timely repairs due to complete soldering of components with known lifespan limitations.

Hey, I would be more than happy if I NEVER ever have to replace another SSD or keyboard in my life. But the rreality is, these are two of the most common points of failure in just about every single device. Including Apple's computers.

Riiiiiiiiiiight....

With over 20 years in IT (including a lot of purchasing), I have literally NEVER sat in a meeting about new tech purchasing & had someone say: “yeah, but you know all our silly & irresponsible users... they’re just going to trash any expensive tools we issue them. What can we buy that’s like industrial & can be put back together like a set of legos?”

I have repaired maybe 20-25 laptops (broken screen, damaged keyboard, exploded battery, etc.) over the years. I think I have upgraded precisely 2.

That’s super, super, super, super RARE.
Like EXTREMELY (are you getting that?).
It’s all but unheard of.

Most businesses are on a 3-5 year refresh cycle on their computers.
At that age it almost always makes more sense to buy new than pull all them to IT for upgrades.
And you’re staffed wrong if you have a guy on payroll with nothing better to do but days solid of hardware upgrades.

And despite YOUR hyperbole sir, SSDs are unequivocally most definitely absolutely NOT prone to failure!!!
I believe lifetime failure rates hover around .5%, so I guess you’re going through about 200 machines to find a single one that fails, yeah?
 
The elitists over in Macrumors & other tech sites are hilarious. They never stop to amuse me. Only 1-3% of Mac owners in the mid 2000s ever touched the machines' insides. The data is collected independently with 1000s in sample size & is not from apple. Majority of people want machines to be more integrated, as this allows for machines to be less error prone & more robust.This goes for MacBooks as well. MacBook batteries last 3-4 times longer than 2009, their motherboards have gotten more efficient, and native SSD storage is much faster. I get it some elitist geeks want to touch the insides, and move things around, but that wont happen with Apple. Please make your own laptops or desktops or go to another brand.
Can you please share with us the source of this data?
 
Take it to an Apple Store or Authorized Service Provider for repairs. If you dont like the prices or choices, take it to a 3rd party repair center.

Apple doesn't repair though, they charge you what it costs to buy a new one so you buy a new one.
 
The elitists over in Macrumors & other tech sites are hilarious. They never stop to amuse me. Only 1-3% of Mac owners in the mid 2000s ever touched the machines' insides. The data is collected independently with 1000s in sample size & is not from apple. Majority of people want machines to be more integrated, as this allows for machines to be less error prone & more robust.This goes for MacBooks as well. MacBook batteries last 3-4 times longer than 2009, their motherboards have gotten more efficient, and native SSD storage is much faster. I get it some elitist geeks want to touch the insides, and move things around, but that wont happen with Apple. Please make your own laptops or desktops or go to another brand.

Wow, I never thought of myself as a "elitists" for having the knowledge to upgrade/repair my own computers plus save money without using the Genius/idiot bar. I guess I need to realize that there's some who don't have the time, some who will just pay, some lazy, some incapable, some not handy, some idiots and some who only use/need an iPhone for texting and emails to function.:rolleyes:

There's a reason Apple is investing more into services.......certain type of society.
 
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Everything is workable. That's how I tackle every single problem.

But at the same time, Why put up with something that adds time or cost to a process that already is pretty good?

I accept doing things like soldered down stuff when there is either a dramatically massive technologically reason for it, or some sort of design restraint that cannot be overcome under any other means.

There's a pattern of Apple devices that seem like they are choosing to go these routes for the purpose of driving sales. Not because of real technical reason. They COULD do it. They just don't want to.

I haven't seen data on it, but I do buy into the argument that Apple's all-in-one logic board design is more durable, less prone to failure. In theory, the savings due to increased durability might offset the extra time needed for individual repairs.

Business customers don't upgrade their machines, they buy them to spec. Like you said, in enterprise, to the user every issue is fixed by swapping out the machine and - one way or another - doing the repair to the other machine behind the scenes. That's why I don't think the all-in-one laptop design is really a material hinderance to business customers.
 
I'm actually a fan of soldered components for mobile devices. Desktops, no thanks.

However, I completely agree that base storage in a Pro model like this should be at least doubled, and storage upgrades are still too expensive. I'm actually fine with the Air still sporting 128GB though, especially since iCloud 2TB storage tier works extremely well if you don't need super speed, and is a decent value especially in context of family sharing (in my opinion).

It's really dumb that the 12" Macbook started at 256GB years ago but the Pro is still 128GB. Like, what??

Because cloud.
 
Maybe someone can help me. I just ordered a refurbished MacBook Pro at 10 AM this morning because I NEED it for next week. I did not think they were about to announce new 13" but what I got is $2189 CAD and has 16GB RAM and 256 GB storage, 4 core 2.4gz , so it is specced almost identically to the new 1.4ghz and priced identically to it. The only difference is the refurb one has a the 655 graphics instead of the 645. As far as i can tell the new one is probably not noticably faster CPU wise so I should stick with the faster graphics card right? Is the keyboard going to make that much of a difference? Especially if I just can use a bluetooth keyboard most of the time anyways? Apparently the new one is slightly higher in multicore but not likely to see it,

My needs for the computer are light 4k video editing, light photo editing, mostly just a boring work machine.
 
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