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Disagree. Time the worker spends doing something that can be done cheaper elsewhere is time he/she could be doing something else. Replacing keyboards and whatnot is relatively low-still labor that shouldn't be done by enterprise-level IT workers.

If your IT department contains people who's job it is to repair computers then it is cost-effective, especially at the enterprise scale.
 
I much doubt that this 2019 MBP is still usable with the original unchangeable configuration in 7 years....
I got the same-year 2012 retina MBP and it's still in use w/ no configuration change. The 2019 MBP is nearly twice as fast .. I would be interested in what you think is going to improve as much in the next 7 years that would make it obsolete (the introduction of A-Series chips to the Mac aside) -- as opposed to wonderful new features like some kind of low-power bright screen that makes you want to upgrade, as opposed to needing to.
 
My 2018 MBP had a motherboard failure after less then a year. First i had to get an appointment at a Genius Bar the next day (not the same day because apparently too busy) and then they told me it takes them 1 week to fix. I snapped and told them they either have a quality problem (too many devices to fix) or a resource problem (too little workforce, too slow) or both. Lesson for me. With this fully integrated soldered stuff everything takes at least a week.
 
I got the same-year 2012 retina MBP and it's still in use w/ no configuration change. The 2019 MBP is nearly twice as fast .. I would be interested in what you think is going to improve as much in the next 7 years that would make it obsolete (the introduction of A-Series chips to the Mac aside) -- as opposed to wonderful new features like some kind of low-power bright screen that makes you want to upgrade, as opposed to needing to.

My 2012 MBP had originally 4GB RAM and a super slow 2.5" hard drive. Maybe you had a better config from the start. In 2012 I thought this was the best and fastest notebook that last nearly forever (it did, but not in this config)....
 
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Nonsense. You make claims that are SIMPLY not true.

All products from Apple have been raised by at least 100% in less than 6 years.

You kind of hurt the credibility of any of your other arguments with a claim like that. So the $1099 price of a 2019 MacBook Air must've been only $550 back in 2013? Discounting the fact that the current model is much faster in every respect, now has Retina display, TouchID, T2, and 8GB RAM instead of 4GB, price in 2013 was... $1099. (Which would be >$1200 adjusted for inflation.)
 
Cloud is not an option for Banking / financial data due to regulatory requirements for data centre hosting. Our data cannot ever be hosted on non-Canadian data centres. Meaning virtually all cloud providers for such services are barred from our use.

When the CEO/CFO have to go offsite and bring data with them, or work on their data. there are periods of time when they are not backed up because of this (though once they plug in to the network at the office, it's automatically backed up)



The answer to soldering storage isn't "just use cloud". it's a completely irrelevant and erroneous recommendation for Regulated industries, and for places that also do not have robust data plans (Canadian data mobile data plans cost hundreds of dollars and still have ridiculously low data caps. think $115/mth gets you 10gb)

With Apple's computers being soldered as well. we cannot afford to lose the data drives when / if we have to ship the device to repair (we remove all data drives before any machine goes to a repair shop. we also use a specific data destruction disposal service for all media, including drives)

Simply put. Soldered storage is one of the worst moves Apple has made in the last few years for enterprise users and their administrators.

I also work in a highly regulated industry with regards to document control. Cloud doesn't always mean AWS, Azure, or Google. For example, we run our own inhouse datacenter with a document management system from a vendor that complies with our regs. I would consider this "cloud" as to the user it is.

The issues you raise with regards to data plans and employees traveling or being offsite, all those issues apply equally to a laptop with removable storage. As I said, those are data policy logistics, not computer hardware related. They'd be just as screwed if they had a Lenovo that died while traveling away from WiFi unless they happen to be traveling with their IT guy who has a suitcase full of spare parts.

I'm not sure what you mean by "we cannot afford to lose the data drives when / if we have to ship the device to repair." You literally cannot afford to buy extras to have available? Or you can't afford the time it takes to restore a new computer from backup? I understand the data policy when shipping drives/computers to a vendor for repair, but this is a manageable logistics/ops problem that tons of companies deal with just fine - and again have not much to do with Apple.

Bottom line is this: Having soldered storage is a pain, but it's a logistics problem for IT departments and it's workable. In other words, it's not a gating issue.
 
If your IT department contains people who's job it is to repair computers then it is cost-effective, especially at the enterprise scale.
Depends on how it's structured. I work at a company with over 1,000 employees who are issued computers. We've decided it's more efficient to lease everything with service contracts. This way our IT focuses on software issues, higher-level hardware issues, and the data servers.
 
A crappy keyboard mechanism covered with more silicone called high end. Wow! we've come a long way!:rolleyes:

True Apple innovation at its best...
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The real core issue with soldered SSD is more so something that most folks offer up zero data on; whether the failure rate of storage drives in Macs has been trending down or up with the move to T2. If the repair costs go up on an order of magnitude fewer failures than that would be a relatively reasonable trade-off if looking at the entire user base.

There is no trade off when Apple is forcing you to pay ridicoulsy obscene prices for both storage and RAM that are 2x the market value.
 
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I can swap a dead lenovo keyboard in about 30 minutes and have a user back up and running. I can swap the SSD storage on any of our lenovo's in about 10 minutes if need be.

if a laptop dies and needs to go to warranty, I can yank the drive out, put it into another laptop and the user continues working while we repair the machine without any change to data or workflow.

replacement and fixes can be done at just about any repair centre and take usually 1-2 days tops.


this is regular required work in an enterprise. And we're only talking about a small 200-300 person financial institution.

If I had to tell the CEO that if her laptop had a hardware failure the only solution was to be without her data or computer for 1-2 weeks while we send it in for repair, heads would roll. Especially if those repairs cost more than 1/3rd of the cost of the device in the first place. (we can get replacement keyboards for our lenovo's for about $50)

These new round of Mac laptosp arne't bad laptops. But the way they've been designed is clearly consumer focused first and not enterprise and not intended for long term large scale enterprise use. The lack of any sort of repairability means the turn around time should something go wrong is extended with additional risks of data loss should there be a problem. (replacing the motherboard shouldn't require replacing and losing all data)

Well, if you're losing data when the laptop dies, I'd question your basic data handling and backup practices?


What I *believe Apple wants you to do in the situation you describe above:

1: Have a handful of identically configured devices that can be imaged to be a perfect clone of the dead device from redundant backups, while said dead device is sent for repairs.

or 2: All important user data is stored in a network user folder on the server at the office in the first place, so the user only has to log-in from above identically configured device to access their data.

Cost effective? For Apple, sure! They get you to buy extra devices to have on hand just in case of a hardware failure requiring the device to be sent away for repairs in order to reduce downtime/productivity loss. For small businesses? (1-100?) Of course not.

* I'm not sure if Apple currently offers institutional Authorized Service, but another option could be to have at least one Apple Certified Technician employed on site and fulfill any other current requirements to be allowed to repair devices on site with Apple parts. Again, depending on how requirements have changed in recent years this may or may not be an option available to smaller businesses, and may or may not be cost effective for small businesses.
 
I doubt it will ever give more travel since that would mean a thicker laptop.

The fetishization of thin over any other feature including basic comfort when using the primary input device on a "Pro" laptop.... sigh. Having used other people's butterfly MBPs from time to time, I'd rather pay Apple $4000 for a laptop that was identical in thickness to my 2012 non-retina, that was actually comfortable to use for more that tweets and facebook posts... Hard to believe that there isn't a big enough market out there of Pro users who actually have to use the keyboard for more than social media posts to justify the expense of offering just one damn model that didn't suck to type on..

Oh well.

apple.com/feedback
 
The elitists over in Macrumors & other tech sites are hilarious. They never stop to amuse me. Only 1-3% of Mac owners in the mid 2000s ever touched the machines' insides. The data is collected independently with 1000s in sample size & is not from apple. Majority of people want machines to be more integrated, as this allows for machines to be less error prone & more robust.This goes for MacBooks as well. MacBook batteries last 3-4 times longer than 2009, their motherboards have gotten more efficient, and native SSD storage is much faster. I get it some elitist geeks want to touch the insides, and move things around, but that wont happen with Apple. Please make your own laptops or desktops or go to another brand.


Yeah imagine people questioning how these machines are built.

I mean a laptop with an aberration of a keyboard which can require the keyboard, battery, top case and thunderbolt ports replacing because one key has failed seems fine doesn't it.

Its fine that Apple was quoting people $5 - 700 in out of warranty repair costs for three years before they plead mea culpa on the keyboard. Anybody who thinks otherwise is elitist.

:rolleyes:
 

Like most other modern MacBooks, this model earned a low repairability score from iFixit due to the usual concerns, such as Apple's use of proprietary pentalobe screws, a glued-in battery, and soldered-down storage and RAM. One positive is that the trackpad can be replaced without touching the battery.

Here we go with the proprietary, "We're not going to allow you to repair or upgrade your computer any longer," crap... just the kind of actions that almost put them out of business in the 90's.

"Modern MacBook?" Are you kidding? This is getting to be something along the lines of cheap HP notebooks years ago.

Apple... go right ahead and isolate yourself right out of the pro market... and out of the market for anyone with a clue who does not live in "Apple Worship" land, allowing Apple to sell them anything they unleash on them. The way Apple seems to be going they may be able to use the old "1984" commercial to describe themselves, in short order.

Now they're soldering down even the SSD's in these expensive pieces of upgrade-worthless crap?

This is Apple slowly drifting back into 1990's "Bonehead Land", for those who weren't around to watch them nearly self-destruct then.

What an embarrassing shame.
 
Who cares about non user replaceable SSD and battery.
At least years down the line when you want to replace the touchpad, you will be able to.
 
Please, please, please stop with the 10 hour battery life crap....my 2017 MBP is lucky to get 4-5 hours at most on a full charge. I have never reached anywhere close to 10 hours, so please, stop typing the words, 10 hour battery life on any Mac.
My MBA 2017 gets 10 hours of battery. Are you using your battery right?
 
I've honestly never encountered a mac where the SSD connector has failed.. Multiple SSD failures, but not the connector itself.

We were not talking about SSD connectors. The issue was socketed chips. If you never had to rock an IC package to get it to reseat I would be very surprised. This was sort of Option 1 in Troubleshooting
 
Who cares about non user replaceable SSD and battery.
At least years down the line when you want to replace the touchpad, you will be able to.

Lol! Drank any Apple Kool-aid, lately? Maybe Apple can hire folks such as yourself as propagandists for their cheaply built/proprietary product ads!

:p
 
We were not talking about SSD connectors. The issue was socketed chips. If you never had to rock an IC package to get it to reseat I would be very surprised. This was sort of Option 1 in Troubleshooting
How often would that happen?
 
If your IT department contains people who's job it is to repair computers then it is cost-effective, especially at the enterprise scale.


Not really cost effective. Better to give the user a spare and get them back to work, and send the defective system to the suppliers repair depot. It makes no sense to employ and train higher paid technicians, have specialized repair tools, and diagnostic software licenses for troubleshooting and repair devices that runs under $2,000 new.
 
Not really cost effective. Better to give the user a spare and get them back to work, and send the defective system to the suppliers repair depot. It makes no sense to employ and train higher paid technicians, have specialized repair tools, and diagnostic software licenses for troubleshooting and repair devices that runs under $2,000 new.
The company is going to send the computer to the supplier with data on it?
 
How often would that happen?
Back in the day, mid 2000s or earlier, more often than anyone wanted. Surface mount technology and soldering components made things smaller, cooler, and more reliable. The downside is the Field Repairable Unit (FRU) became larger and more expensive. Upside is it is easier to swap a board that troubleshoot it, and lower skilled techs can do the swap.
 
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