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Baseball Season 2006
- Thread starter MacNut
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Kwyjibo said:
Yeah, right. The Dodgers have another proven closer in Dany Baez, and they scored 22 runs in their first three games without Garciaparra. And last I checked, none of these guys were actually dead -- just on the DL.
IJ Reilly said:
While I'd be the last person to write off the Dodgers chances, it sure hurts to lose Gagne. I'm betting the "optimistic" estimate of 4-6 weeks recovery is also a fantasyland kind of optimism. If you get him back this year, consider yourself lucky, IJ. While the Dodgers are scoring a lot of runs, I'm also pleased to see they are letting up a lot of runs. Not that the pitching won't sort itself out, too many experienced arms to start gloating now, but I can enjoy a few losses can't I?
We've been bit by the injury bug as well. Benitez is out and Lowry went down in the 2nd yesterday. Again, not quite as bad as the boys in blue, but I'm worrying anyway.
IJ Reilly said:
I was being slightly facetious ... I don't really like the arguement that you even need an experienced closer to slot in there, its nice as an insurance policy but I mean hopefully you're lucky enough to find a guy who can do it ... it happens a lot. I mean I look at the Brewer's Turnbow and the Cubs converting dempster to a closer.
22 runs in three games, thats pretty good, almost as good as the cub's 22 runs in TWO games
. And come on, nobody comes out of the gate throwing like they do in may / june so offense numbers will be a bit skewed right now. At the same time I'm a cubs fan ... I look at injuries and think we might as well adjust for a whole season without that guy, if he comes back great, if not that can't be the downfall of the team (again). If you don't think the dodgers are better with Nomar and Gagne I don't understand. I hope they both have great seasons, some of my favorite players. But yeah, I was just poking fun, I don't think Gagne will be a factor this year and I would have to see more nomar at first before I fully trusted him defensively. I mean don't worry when Ken Girffey goes down again I'll jump on the reds fan, and when Prior / Wood never come back, I expect people to jump on me, but its all in fun!
Sayhey said:
No doubt, but it's a little like last season -- several key position players and pitchers starting the season on the DL (including Gagne), but the Dodgers still had a tremendous April. That's where I'd like to see the similarity to last season end. No estimates on Gagne's return at this point, so far as I've read, though they say the injury isn't as severe as the one that took him out of last season. In the meantime, it's Baez -- who I must point out is a quality closer, of the type most teams would love to have.
As for the starting pitching, this cannot stand. Too much talent. I just hope Lowe doesn't turn into a head case. We've already got one too many of those. I had to sit in the cold on Wednesday night at Dodger Stadium and watch Perez trash a 5-0 lead in one inning. Was that ever painful. Oh well, three down, 159 to go...
Kwyjibo said:I was being slightly facetious ... I don't really like the arguement that you even need an experienced closer to slot in there, its nice as an insurance policy but I mean hopefully you're lucky enough to find a guy who can do it ... it happens a lot. I mean I look at the Brewer's Turnbow and the Cubs converting dempster to a closer.
22 runs in three games, thats pretty good, almost as good as the cub's 22 runs in TWO games
If you don't think the dodgers are better with Nomar and Gagne I don't understand. I hope they both have great seasons, some of my favorite players. But yeah, I was just poking fun, I don't think Gagne will be a factor this year and I would have to see more nomar at first before I fully trusted him defensively. I mean don't worry when Ken Girffey goes down again I'll jump on the reds fan, and when Prior / Wood never come back, I expect people to jump on me, but its all in fun!
Sure, sure. But even with the revamped offense, the Dodgers are not expected to score a huge number of runs. They're rarely had that kind of team, they play in a pretty pitching-friendly park, so seeing that sort of run production with both Garciaparra and Lofton starting the season on the DL is encouraging. Remember also that Garciaparra is a placeholder. The Dodger first baseman of the future is James Loney. They jumped him from AA to the majors to cover for Garciaparra, and everybody likes what they see in this preview so far.
As for Gagne, we'll just have to see. Nobody knows anything yet for certain. The trade for Baez looks brilliant now, that's for sure.
IJ Reilly said:
The Gagne injury is the only one that, at this point, looks to be serious, so while it is annoying to see so many guys get hurt, it is way, WAY too early to draw any conclusions about the injuries affecting the Dodgers chances.
Ned did alright in getting Baez though, didn't he IJ? I was one of the few up here not shouting about trading prospects for a second closer as evidence of his stupidity. Evidently, among "statheads" and "moneyballers" all you have to do is use the word "closer" and they go into uncontrollable paroxysms of twitching and spitting about paying too much. Never, never can have too much pitching, but that is an old cliché that can't have any real truth behind it, can it?
IJ Reilly said:
Am I the only Dodger fan who's very annoyed that Gagne said he's been pitching in pain all spring but only brought it up a couple days ago? He's officially lost the right to bitch about the team not ponying up for players, if he ever had it. The initial surgery was the result of Gagne changing his mechanics to work through a muscle pull. I consider his work ethic to be questionable at this point.
Sayhey said:
No, no truth at all.
Did I remember to thank you for sending us Ned Colletti?The injuries to Lofton and Garciaparra look like typical old guy stuff. A pull here, a strain there. We're going to see some of that. I'm actually more concerned about Kent, who took a pitch in the shoulder on Wednesday and had to come out a few innings later. He's day-to-day. Then in the same game, Furcal was helped off the field after a collision at second base. He stayed in the game (it was the third out), but you have to wonder... this guy is so aggressive, he'd probably play through a cerebral hemorrhage.
aloofman said:
A little annoyed, I guess, but I can't claim to know all the facts. He says he thought he was working off the scar tissue from last year's surgery. One thing I don't question is his work ethic. If anything, he wants too much to stay in the game. Maybe that's what you meant by work ethic.
IJ Reilly said:No, no truth at all.
You're welcome, damn it!
aloofman said:
This happens quite a bit with players not saying anything about the aches and pains they might be feeling just in case they get reduced playing time out on the field or worse yet get a physical exam and discover they have some season ending tear blah blah blah. My guess is Gagne felt he really had something to prove out there this year that he still was the dominant form of seasons past so he didn't say anything about it (at least not in public).
Do you think he is done for good? I haven't heard anything about what this injury actually is yet.
MacsomJRR said:
They are going to remove the same nerve that was moved in lasted year's operation. I'm not a doctor, though I've played one on a occasion, but I can't believe removing a nerve in his pitching arm can be good for his ability to perform the same tasks (i.e. throwing a nasty 97+ mph fastball passed major league hitters) as well as before.
Sayhey said:
Who knows? He survived Tommy John surgery to throw those speedballs. Oddly enough, though, I believe it's the breaking pitches that put the most strain on the arm. Gagne wasn't throwing many of his trademark curves in spring training, for that reason I think. And that's his nastiest pitch, IMO.
Anyway, I won't be pacing in the waiting room. Too much baseball to play.
aloofman said:OK, maybe he's just dumb then.
Sorry, I don't follow. What do you know that the rest of us don't?
I guess it isn't as bad as I thought then. If Gagne is back in two months and closing out dodger games I'll be suprised.
Is it me or are the Royals much improved this season? I'm listening to the CWS v. KC game and I had no idea they'd picked up Grud, Sanders and Min-K-wicz. Pitching still sucks but they can definitely score some runs now.
Eh, what do I care. GO PADS!
Is it me or are the Royals much improved this season? I'm listening to the CWS v. KC game and I had no idea they'd picked up Grud, Sanders and Min-K-wicz. Pitching still sucks but they can definitely score some runs now.
Eh, what do I care. GO PADS!
IJ Reilly said:
I'll believe it when I see it, IJ. My question is what does the removal of this nerve do to his ability to pitch? Over at McCovey Chronicles, people are saying the nerve controls some of the thumb's movement. Does this effect his ability to grip the ball? Where are the medical experts on macrumors when you really need them?
Sayhey said:
I'm guessing they are removing a "sensory" nerve that is causing him pain in his hand. This shouldn't effect his ability to grip the ball because it isn't a motor nerve innervating the muscle. It's probably just a minor branch innervating whatever is causing the pain.
EDIT: Yeah what MacNut quoted. It's only sensory information that he'll be losing (kinda sucks) and therefore his arm is going to feel weird but his actual abilities should be fine. The question is how much does Gagne rely on his "feeling" to do things like let go of the ball at the exact right time etc...
I always thought Eric Gagne had a lot of nerve. Now he'll have a little less.
The sports docs are pretty good at forecasting recovery periods. What they can't predict is the athlete's mental response to an injury, the small subtle changes in behavior that might have an affect on their playing abilities. Or not. Remember when Kaz Ishii had his skull fractured by a line drive? Getting back out on the mound after a thing like that has got to take a huge amount determination and much better than average mastery of your feelings. These guys are tough. That's why they get the big bucks.
The sports docs are pretty good at forecasting recovery periods. What they can't predict is the athlete's mental response to an injury, the small subtle changes in behavior that might have an affect on their playing abilities. Or not. Remember when Kaz Ishii had his skull fractured by a line drive? Getting back out on the mound after a thing like that has got to take a huge amount determination and much better than average mastery of your feelings. These guys are tough. That's why they get the big bucks.