I have no doubt it's true that Apple does more than other companies to ensure that basic standards are being met. I also have no doubt that the workers in these factories are being exploited and abused. But what really surprises me is the reactions here. I know that this place tends to be populated by hardcore Apple fans, but still; claiming that it isn't Apple's responsibility is wilfully shortsighted. The fact is that Apple uses Chinese factories because those factories can pay their workers a tiny fraction of what factories in America would have to pay theirs, and Apple does this in order to maximise its profits. The argument that this is acceptable because a Chinese factory worker's wage is better than a Chinese farm worker's wage is ridiculous: Apple's choice to do this has all kinds of ripple effects, just as Walmart's choice to underpay its workers has all kinds of ripple effects.
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BBC Documentary Claims Apple Fails to Protect Chinese Factory Workers
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Apple is showing us the positives.
The BBC is showing us the negatives.
Then we decide what to believe.
It's kind of like a democracy and having freedom of thought.
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What a nice man you are.
These types of reports are stupid. They're not forced to do these jobs with a gun to their head. They sign up for these by choice. And that choice is ultimately a better life than they would not get by living in these countries. If you want to point the finger at someone, point the finger at the Chinese government.
BBC has become more unethical than Fox News
There is either an extraordinary lack of ethics demonstrated by Richard Bilton and the BBC, or an extremely naive understanding of what Apple Inc. does do and does not do.
The "workers making the iPhone 6 in China are NOT employees of Apple Inc. They are employees of other companies (for example Hon Hai Precision Industry Co., Ltd., a.k.a Foxconn Technology Group) that are contracted to assemble products NOT ONLY for Apple but for other large companies including Microsoft, Google, Amazon, Blackberry, Dell, Motorola, Sony, etc. Apple Inc., like all of those other companies, does not own or manage the supplier companies, NOR do they have control over the Chinese government or the laws in that country.
To call Apple, which is just one of the many large customers of those Chinese companies, responsible for working conditions is not only absurd but also dishonest.
If anyone is responsible for working conditions in Chinese companies, it is obviously the owners/management of those Chinese companies and the Government of China. If Richard Bilton and the BBC wish to put a portion of the blame on the customers of those Chinese companies, then they should rightly include ALL of those customers Not just singling Apple Inc., and disregarding the many other huge corporations that are also contracting assembly work at those same Chinese suppliers.
And, if Richard Bilton and the BBC insist on assigning blame to the customers of those Chinese companies, then that blame should be extended to ALL customers that buy products that support poor working conditions in China. Almost everyone in the world buys such products, whether it is electronics products made by the Chinese companies contracted by Apple, Microsoft, Google, Amazon, Blackberry, Dell, Motorola, Sony, and many other companies, or clothing, shoes, and countless other categories of products that come from China.
The BBC program also bizarrely puts the blame on Apple for "children working in some of the most dangerous mines in the world, as if Apple alone owns and controls all of the mining companies in every country around the world, and that Apple is the only company in the world that uses metals from those mining operations.
I have always believed that the BBC was a reputable broadcaster with high standards of journalistic integrity. But that belief is now gone, and I am concerned about what ulterior motives might be behind such an irrational and amoral BBC program.
There is either an extraordinary lack of ethics demonstrated by Richard Bilton and the BBC, or an extremely naive understanding of what Apple Inc. does do and does not do.
The "workers making the iPhone 6 in China are NOT employees of Apple Inc. They are employees of other companies (for example Hon Hai Precision Industry Co., Ltd., a.k.a Foxconn Technology Group) that are contracted to assemble products NOT ONLY for Apple but for other large companies including Microsoft, Google, Amazon, Blackberry, Dell, Motorola, Sony, etc. Apple Inc., like all of those other companies, does not own or manage the supplier companies, NOR do they have control over the Chinese government or the laws in that country.
To call Apple, which is just one of the many large customers of those Chinese companies, responsible for working conditions is not only absurd but also dishonest.
If anyone is responsible for working conditions in Chinese companies, it is obviously the owners/management of those Chinese companies and the Government of China. If Richard Bilton and the BBC wish to put a portion of the blame on the customers of those Chinese companies, then they should rightly include ALL of those customers Not just singling Apple Inc., and disregarding the many other huge corporations that are also contracting assembly work at those same Chinese suppliers.
And, if Richard Bilton and the BBC insist on assigning blame to the customers of those Chinese companies, then that blame should be extended to ALL customers that buy products that support poor working conditions in China. Almost everyone in the world buys such products, whether it is electronics products made by the Chinese companies contracted by Apple, Microsoft, Google, Amazon, Blackberry, Dell, Motorola, Sony, and many other companies, or clothing, shoes, and countless other categories of products that come from China.
The BBC program also bizarrely puts the blame on Apple for "children working in some of the most dangerous mines in the world, as if Apple alone owns and controls all of the mining companies in every country around the world, and that Apple is the only company in the world that uses metals from those mining operations.
I have always believed that the BBC was a reputable broadcaster with high standards of journalistic integrity. But that belief is now gone, and I am concerned about what ulterior motives might be behind such an irrational and amoral BBC program.
So you don't have hard facts to back anything up. You just chose believe what you want to believe.
Not so long ago I had a job, and I worked it 75 hours or so a week. Was it hard and tiring work? Yes. Did I complain, whinge and expect a documentary to be made about it? No. I just got on with it. It's not like anything illegal was going on. It was just good old fashioned hard work.
When I eventually decided I didn't like it anymore, I simply left.
The guys working in these places have the same choices available to them. They can leave if they want!
And.. Foxconn, Pegatron, whoever.. These companies are NOT Apple. They are basically suppliers to Apple. Those companies make stuff for other companies besides Apple. Yet you'll notice you hear little to nothing about those other companies, until it becomes fashionable to hate on them instead
As much as I expect this kind of "News" these days. It's disappointing that it comes from the BBC, which is normally a respectable organisation.
1) Not sure if you are aware of the culture over in China, but saying you have "a choice" is a little off
2) If you are on this site, that means you can afford an apple product without it being too burdensome to your bank accound, something that these factory workers can't say.
3) How many companies go in front of the spotlight saying all they are doing to make things better overseas?
And Walmart is having big trouble in China now because of their ex-Chinese management team. Don't give big US corporates too much credit for their influences in China. They can be powerless too.
This was inevitable. Companies operating in Asia care little in achieving welfare standards. The only way Apple is going to achieve its aims is to move its operations out of Asia altogether.
If it does this then manufacturing its products cost effectively will require greater levels of automation with a significantly smaller work force which would enable easier monitoring for the application of welfare standards.
Anyway this will be a viewing coup for the BBC.
If it does this then manufacturing its products cost effectively will require greater levels of automation with a significantly smaller work force which would enable easier monitoring for the application of welfare standards.
Anyway this will be a viewing coup for the BBC.
So you don't have hard facts to back anything up. You just chose believe what you want to believe.
It is for the BBC to provide the facts or counter-facts. My argument is about the legitimate right of the BBC to hold Apple to account where it falls short of the high aims it lauds across its marketing material.
Agreed. Apple is a big target. And they're known as one of the few that actually give a damn and might react with more than handwaving. Look at all the press a few years back about Apple's excessive packaging. Since then the packaging used for eg. a 15" MBP has dropped by like 2/3. Less waste, and Apple benefits from denser shipping. On container ships, cubic feet matter more than pounds.
Apple is probably also more demanding of their suppliers than most, and the suppliers probably push harder to keep Apple happy, so one could argue that Apple does have a certain responsibility. Like we see with long distance truckers, it's not safe for them to drive 24 hours straight hopped up on bennies, but if the customer presses the company and the company leans on the driver ...
BBC unlike American Tv isn't paid for by advertising but my a tv license which everyone in the UK with a TV has (including me). Though you Americans think "they should learn from us where we don't pay for our tv" which is fair enough as some channels are free but the BBC give very high quality TV show and as very high quality news service - http://www.bbc.co.uk/news
You get to make your own mind up of what you think and it's a lot less dramatic which makes the news seem more important - none of these you get in the USA,
Next time have a quick google on a company before you comment on them
Apple is responsible for KNOWINGLY doing business with these companies that utilize third world slave labor. They do it for profits. That's fine, but with their flamingly liberal political leanings, it exposes them to serious charges of hypocrisy. Apple defenders just choose to ignore the hypocrisy, because they love the iPhone. Let's call a spade a spade.
As for the really dumb argument that these are voluntary jobs, I guess the argument is that they should just be happy they have jobs, and deal with the abuses, or be unemployed. No need to expose truths in the Apple reality distortion field.
As for the really dumb argument that these are voluntary jobs, I guess the argument is that they should just be happy they have jobs, and deal with the abuses, or be unemployed. No need to expose truths in the Apple reality distortion field.
But, why wouldn't the BBC investigate others instead of making such a hard link to Apple, which makes great strides and is transparent in the area themselves? "Apple does X, which isn't enough in our eyes, but others still aren't even doing Y" is what is lacking from the context.
The issue that Rog and a lot of people here have is that this BBC documentary is riding the coat tails of negative press about Apple for views. This is not an Apple centric issue, though it is made out to be.
What about the hypocrisy of all the flaming liberals who complain about this yet continue to purchase Apple products? If it bothers you so much stop buying their products. Fewer people buying Apple products equals less profit for Apple.
Hatchet job on the BBCs behalf.
Their victim approach to journalism has really ran it's course. I recall the BBC at one time being a fair and middle of the road source for news.
Time for them to purge their staff and find a new lead editor.
Their victim approach to journalism has really ran it's course. I recall the BBC at one time being a fair and middle of the road source for news.
Time for them to purge their staff and find a new lead editor.
Foxconn is not the only factory in China. If they feel that company is unfair can go to another factory for work. The type of factories Foxconn gets its raw materials for instance. Thats why there is such a high turn over rate for employee's.
I used to love the BBC, then they attacked something I liked. Nowadays, when I hear the letters, B, B, and C put together, I get all indignant and kneejerky.
Because how dare they! HOW DARE THEY! I was totally with them when they painted things I hated in a negative light. They told the truth then, and had integrity. But attacking something I like? That's a step too far! They're obviously doing it just for the money these days!
Because how dare they! HOW DARE THEY! I was totally with them when they painted things I hated in a negative light. They told the truth then, and had integrity. But attacking something I like? That's a step too far! They're obviously doing it just for the money these days!
Yawn. More dribble from the SJW crowd.
Hint: Apple doesn't own any factories in China nor does it employe any factory workers.
Hint: Apple doesn't own any factories in China nor does it employe any factory workers.