BBC Documentary Claims Apple Fails to Protect Chinese Factory Workers

[bcburrows]

I have found it very interesting to read many of the comments on here. I wonder what would the response be if the story were the following

1) An un-named company
2) An Apple rival
3) A.N.Other rival operating system manufacturer.

I would guess many of the people who have defended Apple would not come to those companies defence with the excuses of

1) Why did you pick on them specifically (You have to start somewhere)
2) This is a subsidiary company only, so you can't blame [parent company]
3) This company is in country X so who cares

I like my apple products, but I like people more, and I like the fair treatment of people even more than that. There is nothing wrong with highlighting the working conditions of individuals in the hope of improving their situation.

Apple after all has how much in the bank, the prices of their products is also not exactly just above their manufacturing costs either (just look at the iclarified/ifixit teardown costs - yes I know that does not include design and development).

 

[Happybunny]

For all the whining and griping going on from both sides of the political divide, I still wonder if any of us have taken the time to watch the documentary yet.

I demand that you stop with these reasonable and logical ideas immediately.

 

[Renzatic]

I demand that you stop with these reasonable and logical ideas immediately.

No. Can't make me.

 

[rish]

The smaller outfits sourcing raw materials which are sold to middle men is something that a government should control.

This will never be in Apples control.

 

[Rogifan]

For all the whining and griping going on from both sides of the political divide, I still wonder if any of us have taken the time to watch the documentary yet.

That would be like giving Business Insider page views. Won't do it.

 

[aerok]

I used to love the BBC, then they attacked something I liked. Nowadays, when I hear the letters, B, B, and C put together, I get all indignant and kneejerky.

Because how dare they! HOW DARE THEY! I was totally with them when they painted things I hated in a negative light. They told the truth then, and had integrity. But attacking something I like? That's a step too far! They're obviously doing it just for the money these days!

Ya know... well said *slow clap*

 

[rish]

I demand that you stop with these reasonable and logical ideas immediately.

Yep. Just finished watching. If anything, the programme carries enough bias to place the responsibility at Apples door. However this is a good thing because if any company is going to do anything about the issues it will be Apple (of note, suppliers make products for other companies yet not one mentioned).

If I were Apple and given the need for manufacturing jobs in The US and other western nations, I'd look to manufacture products in an automated factory with a reduced workforce allowing me to easily monitor application of welfare standards.

Finally, the governments in these countries have a lot of responsibility for their people and the conditions in which they work. Exploitation of any kind is intolerable.

 

[Z400Racer37]

Gonna need some proof on that please.

Once proof is provided, would you identify their actions as hypocritical, and condemn them and their shameful 'documentary'? Or would you just pretend it never happened, or justify it somehow? Just want to know if you're actually objective, or if you're just trolling.

 

[0098386]

Once proof is provided, would you identify their actions as hypocritical, and condemn them and their shameful 'documentary'? Or would you just pretend it never happened, or justify it somehow? Just want to know if you're actually objective, or if you're just trolling.

Objective. I've worked with the BBC before, never heard of them using unpaid interns (at least in the place I worked). So I'm genuinely curious.

 

[apolloa]

Apple can choice end relationship with these factories or companies. Apple also need to make sure their supplier met their code of conducts. It is Apple who turn blind eyes to labor abuses in order to make more profit. Though it is not 100% Apple's fault, Apple also need hold accountable for labor abuse as well.

Christ alive! Someone who has some common sense on here....

----------

Objective. I've worked with the BBC before, never heard of them using unpaid interns (at least in the place I worked). So I'm genuinely curious.

Nope, but they are pretty good and running a peadophile ring! And I am not joking either considering recent events........

 

[Black Belt]

These factories produce Android products as well but I NEVER hear these reports about those companies, nor have I EVER heard those companies make ANY effort to define workplace standards. And Android is supposedly so much more prevalent, so where are the handwringing documentaries?

 

[rei101]

Yet they fail to report that these hard done by people are paid a fair wage by there countries going rate and there there by CHOICE. It's not forced labour!

You know so little about life.

 

[FieldingMellish]

Reporters were shocked to find out what real work is.

 

[xSinghx]

So basically, they are blaming Apple for another company's treatment of employees? Shall America start lecturing the UK on the way they treat their citizens?

Are you morally responsible if you knowingly buy a product that was produced under conditions of slavery? Would you bear greater moral responsibility if you were one of the financial architects that perpetuated a system that allowed for such slavery?

Apple places huge orders with Foxconn so much so that Foxconn would probably not exist without them or at least nowhere near the size it is today. Given Foxconn has had these problems before. Given they would rather spend money to build nets around their buildings (before raising worker wages) to stop an epidemic of employees willing to throw themselves off the roofs in despair. Given Apple continues to place orders with them. Does Apple deserve blame? Absolutely.

The fact you conflate governments with corporations speaks volumes in your difficulty to make such simple distinctions. This isn't rocket science but it does require a basic understanding of empathy, ethics, and the purpose of allowing businesses to exist in the first place - the betterment of the people they serve (including workers).

 

[nylon]

I just finished watching this documentary on the BBC iPlayer while it aired live. It was upsetting the watch children working in mining pits and clear abuse of worker's rights in China as well as the environmental damage.

My take is the following. Why is the BBC focussing on Apple as if this was all the responsibility of Apple. Where are the governments of China and Indonesia on protecting their worker's rights in all of this and regulating companies such as FoxConn and Pegatron. It is really the government's responsibility to enforce laws and environmental regulations. It's a little disingenuous for the BBC to lay all the blame at Apple's feet.

On the other hand Apple has set itself up as a target by publishing standards that it clearly cannot adhere to or force the suppliers to implement. Apple is not a government. It is responsible to it's shareholders. It would be unfair to hold it to a higher standard to any other company otherwise it might as well cease to operate.

These are large scale socio-economic problems that cannot be solved by one company. They must be solved at the governmental level and at the intra-governmental level.

If you are offended by this documentary then you should literally not buy the majority of goods on the shelves of your local stores in Western countries. Let's not be naive.

At least Apple stated that "their work is never done" with regards to these issues. While this documentary was illuminating it was unfair at targeting just one company.

 

[babyj]

Just finished watching it.

Don't think Apple did themselves any favours by asking the reporter over to Apple HQ for interviews with Apple executives. Then changing their mind at the last minute, refusing interviews and offering a written statement instead.

Main claim I took from it against Apple was that the audits and controls they have put in place are useless as the results are fabricated and they don't dig any deeper.

Apple seem a fair target for this to me. They make great claims about the workforces at their suppliers, which puts them in the firing line. If you say you're the best at looking after workers you best make sure you are or you'll get shot down.

The problem with saying it's down to the suppliers and their governments is that neither gives a damn. Labour laws are poor compared to the US and Europe and they've no intention of changing them without a push. And the only way to make that push is by targeting the companies that are benefiting from the poor labour laws - the biggest of which is Apple.

It's also incorrect to claim that the BBC are singling out Apple over the employment conditions at their suppliers. The BBC have aired numerous documentaries over the last 5 years on the same subject, focussing on other companies. Think Primark was one of them but there have been plenty of others.

 

[G4DP]

To everyone bitching about them making products for other companies. No one is denying that.

The programme is about the claims Apple makes and how they do not live up to them. Samsung, LG etc do not get there CEO on stage spouting off about doing this and doing that for workers. Apple does. If they are going to make these announcements in public, they sure as hell should make them happen.

Tim Cook has claimed the Apple ethos is about the environment and being green and carbon footprint etc. Yet all the raw materials are gathered in exactly the same method as it is for all of their competitors.

For All of the claims Apple makes to happen, they would need to get off there collective fat backsides and spend some of that huge cash pile. Everyone knows that will not happen. Putting a few solar panels up means nothing.

 

[TimelessOne]

So basically, they are blaming Apple for another company's treatment of employees? Shall America start lecturing the UK on the way they treat their citizens?

No they are going after Apple because Apple is in a position to do something about it. It is not hard. Apple wants cheap stuff to market up simple as that. Apple could take a cut in the profits it makes and require better treatment.

Actually, I am.

I have a group of people that are willing to do whatever it takes to drive our mission. We save the lives of thousands of people per year. In addition, I have a 5.8 out of 6.0 employee satisfaction rating with a 100% participation.

To me, consecutive days or long hours wouldn't bother me. I'd need to see the documentary to see the "other conditions" the employees are subjected too.

This to me falls under "Alex can I have things I do not believe for a $1000"

I'm for what the BBC are investigating, but right now they're shining far too much of the spotlight on how the raw materials are sourced. While I agree that's a huge issue, it's something that Apple can't directly solve but something only the government can solve. Possible as long as the government doesn't have deals with Apple, but the Chinese government isn't corrupt is it?

No Apple can easily do something. They could say screw you to the factories that do not improve and take their contracts elsewhere. Hell they could pull out of those places. Simple as that.

Apple is in a position to do something about it. Turning a blind eye to it means you are part of the problem. Apple is all about the bottom line no matter what they pretend to say. Steve Jobs put that culture there. Great businessman but a horrible person. He was cut throat as they come. He would demand lower prices and cheap deals.
He had no problems doing unethical things like bid shopping. He had no issues with suppressing wages and even threaten other company to agree to his deal knowing it was illegal or he would sue them.

 

[Melrose]

No surprises here, Apple has failed to do a lot of things lately..
Im just saying....

Not sure if serious of just trolling. Or joking.

 

[doelcm82]

Not sure why Apple is ever implicated in this. It's not like if my accountant wasn't paying his secretary enough and was making her work too much that an article would come out with my name in it in the newspaper

If you found out that your accountant was abusing his secretary, you'd think twice about having that accountant work for you, wouldn't you? You're paying the accountant your good money and to turn a blind eye to the terrible way he treats his secretary would make you look bad. You'd use your influence to convince the accountant to treat his or her employees better, or you'd take your accounting to someone else. Otherwise, people would start to think that you are not a very good person, either, and that you are an enabler and passive supporter of wage slavery.

 

[HiRez]

Clearly more needs to be done and Apple should be a big part of that. But I just don't like how every one of these stories always singles out Apple as being the sole problem, with all the responsibility for fixing an entire industry falling on them. All the other mega-corporations building electronics (Samsung, LG, HTC, Google, Microsoft, etc.) somehow get a pass. The story is always "Look how horrible Apple is" instead of "Look at the horrible conditions in these electronics plants". Apple doesn't even sell the most mobile phones globally. Depressing that it's BBC because I expect better from them.

 

[localoid]

Few things in life are as satisfying as killing the messenger.

Well, someone had to rid us of this turbulent priest messenger!

 

[doelcm82]

Clearly more needs to be done and Apple should be a big part of that. But I just don't like how every one of these stories always singles out Apple as being the sole problem, with all the responsibility for fixing an entire industry falling on them. All the other mega-corporations building electronics (Samsung, LG, HTC, Google, Microsoft, etc.) somehow get a pass. The story is always "Look how horrible Apple is" instead of "Look at the horrible conditions in these electronics plants". Apple doesn't even sell the most mobile phones globally. Depressing that it's BBC because I expect better from them.

Why do you give Samsung, LG, HTC, Google, Microsoft, etc. a pass? I don't.

 

[nylon]

No they are going after Apple because Apple is in a position to do something about it. It is not hard. Apple wants cheap stuff to market up simple as that. Apple could take a cut in the profits it makes and require better treatment.

If Apple takes a cut in profit then China Inc. will also need to take a cut in profit. Apple is not the only company to be in a position to do something about it.

No Apple can easily do something. They could say screw you to the factories that do not improve and take their contracts elsewhere. Hell they could pull out of those places. Simple as that.

While I sympathize with your sentiments. This is a very naive statement.

Apple is in a position to do something about it. Turning a blind eye to it means you are part of the problem. Apple is all about the bottom line no matter what they pretend to say. Steve Jobs put that culture there. Great businessman but a horrible person. He was cut throat as they come. He would demand lower prices and cheap deals. He had no problems doing unethical things like bid shopping. He had no issues with suppressing wages and even threaten other company to agree to his deal knowing it was illegal or he would sue them.

Please build me a world that is not built on market economics. You can implement all your ideas there. Oh right, that was called the Soviet Union. That turned out really well.

While I empathize and even sympathize with your views and intentions, the problem is far larger then any one company can fix. It needs to be addressed on a global scale. The good thing is that these issues are being raised and Apple is trying to address them. However, to focus on one company is just disingenuous.

You could have removed the word "Apple" from this documentary and it still would have had the same impact.

Human beings are a flawed species. All we can do is work towards a better world.

 

[tennisproha]

Okay so I just watched the whole documentary and I'm pretty disappointed in the angle the producers/BBC decided to take the story in. It does do a decent job of pointing out some of the fallicies in the supply chain however the blame is completely and unfairly misplaced.

It points out all the standards Apple has in place to protect workers and shows how every single one is being broken by Pegatron yet comes back around to blame Apple for Pegatrons mismanagement. I think thats completely idiotic.

Apple is a client of Pegatron. Apple hires and pays Pegatron to manufacture its products. Its up to the Chinese government to regulate its companies. And its up to Pegatron to live by its rules and regulations. Apple really has no role in this. In fact I think China is to blame for all this and they are using Apple as a scapegoat to further their economic agenda.

Lastly the problem is not Apple as this is a problem everywhere. Its a systemic issue. I wouldnt be surprised if Apple brings their iphone manufacturing to the US in a few years like they've done for the Mac Pro.