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Because "Pro" means you can't repair it ;)
- Thread starter RoskO
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No, you are the guy in the internet making assumptions and telling my experiences are not real.
The only one not realising things and not being able to get past his own arrogance nor allowing others to be of a different opinion is you. I know very well that there are people who have the knowledge and the tools but I also very well know that they are a minority. The majority isn't like that or simply doesn't want to be like that (again, if you are going to pay then why do it all yourself instead of letting the one you are paying do all the work?).
Judging by your posts it is very apparent that I am not allowed to have my own opinion.
If you want to be taken seriously and want to have a normal discussion than lose the attitude and come up with proper arguments. Giving an example of just 1 person that is an exception to the rule just doesn't cut it. Nor does insulting people.
Yep they do. They use it to boot a simple OS that will then attach to the centralised storage. How else would you run a vSphere cluster? Then there are many security devices (firewalls, UTMs) that have only soldered on components.
Well, that's just your point of view.
What $3,500 is for you, $200 is for others.
And there are people who would even laugh at a $20,000 laptop, like w00t battery broken, just order a new laptop.
So an higher price does not underline the replaceability of components.
I could even argue, that a lower price demands even more replaceability.
Because somebody who can barely effort a $200 laptop would be supper happy to upgrade it later.
While somebody who can effort a $3,500 laptop, can effort a new one after 3-4 years.
And a $3,500 laptop last longer than a $200 laptop for sure.
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I think you are missing the point on the server blade argument, nearly all of the pro/server market has swap-able components. It's not that people are asking for everything in the machine to be swap-able, we already know that, but they are now virtually non-serviceable which bugs some people, you just aren't OK with the fact that it bugs people. I know normal users that swapped out their PCIe ssds in their MBA/MBP in the past few years to gain capacity. They aren't electrical engineers, just people that have the ability to watch videos online and follow instructions.
If you are a sysadmin, you should have experience with either elitebooks/thinkpads/precision workstations (laptops). A lot of industry folk view those as the "pro" level, everything at Best Buy is the consumer level (just one example), you get the picture. What's not swap-able in the "pro" line on the windows/linux side? I'll give you that the Mac is smaller/sexier, most those systems don't have that except some of the smaller elitebook 15s.
I never said your experiences aren't real, you did. I know there are many people just like you that will have great experiences with the new MBP, and they will just swap them out every year or two and be happy with that flow (feed the beast).
you want me to "lose the attitude"? Read your posts/replies. I'm sorry you are so frustrated with this thread.
You are right.
We just replaced more or less our complete server room at work just because the support contract ended.
The hardware was still running fine.
3 years over and done.
New investment, good for tax rate.
No, iPad for play and few Business/Office stuff and creative work here and there.
Hackintosh for wasting time or pure fun while tweaking factor.
Time is money!
I wouldn't set up a business based on hackintosh's. Too critical!
Yes and no. Instead of thinking of HD's, RAM, GPU's and CPU's as single modules just look at the MB as one big module that encompases all of those parts. If you have any of those components fail, Apple just replaces the whole logic board, done. I get your point but we need to stop thinking of these things as desktops where every single part can be removed, upgraded and replaced. Even out of warranty, a logic board swap (last I checked) was $310 all up - not really that crazy. I believe that all laptops will be this way very soon anyway. Am I bummed I can't eventually upgrade to 32GB of RAM? Sure but I'll get over it.I think you have this backwards. If Apple designed your house, they'd permanently fix LED bulbs into the house claiming that you get "at least 10yrs", and by then...hey who doesn't just want a whole new house anyway. Way cheaper to buy a new house than put in new light bulbs.
Btw. to bring back up the car analogy and light bulb replacement.
On newer cars you can't replace the light bulb anymore, instead you have to replace the whole light housing.
w00t Mercedes sucks! I skip that brand now.
lol I bet there are posts like that in car forums.
On newer cars you can't replace the light bulb anymore, instead you have to replace the whole light housing.
w00t Mercedes sucks! I skip that brand now.
lol I bet there are posts like that in car forums.
You are assuming again because I really don't care that it bugs people or not. Just saying that this isn't an Apple thing but a very generic one. It applies to Apple, Dell, HP, Lenovo, etc. and not just the computers people use but also servers and other appliances. It's just where IT is currently moving to or has already moved to.
No, they are people with knowledge, skill and tools. Some of them would even pick up a soldering iron and swap the NAND chips. There is many documentation, videos, etc. out there but it still requires knowledge, skill, tools and guts to do it. I wish it were different but this is really a minority. Also, quite a lot of people have switch to Mac because they don't want to fiddle with the system any more.
I do and the people using them used them for 3 to 4 years than bought new ones. Mostly they had to because physically those notebooks where at the end of their life. Only a minority upgraded the notebook because they did not have a choice as they simply did not have enough or even any budget for a new notebook. I've seen many people doing their calculation and simulation work on old hardware (the average machine was 4 to 6 years old) and on machines like the MBA.
Those notebooks you mention as being pro are going through the same phase as Apple is now. The upgradability of those machines was also a PITA. You could upgrade disk and memory. CPU was not upgradable in all models though. In some cases the GPU could be upgraded because it uses an MXM card but in reality it meant that you couldn't because that card was the only one the manufacturer of the notebook offered.
Still not convinced? Take a look at what Microsoft, HP, HPE, Dell and others are doing. Lots of 2-in-1 devices. If you take a look at what Razer is doing I think you'll see what's going to happen in the near future (hint: eGPU via Thunderbolt). The computer itself has become a component.
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They just have to use something decent like Apple Music.
Decent and Apple Music are words rarely used in the same sentence.
I'm unwatching this thread now, it's getting a never ending story and waste of time.
Anyway, you still have the option to replace RAM,CPU,SSD in other laptops, so go for it as long you can.
But don't expect this to last long, this topic will hit you again, sooner than later.
Have fun...
Btw. I'm looking forward to my semi maxed out MacBook Unprofessional 15" 2016 to dev on.
Time is money!
[doublepost=1479579844][/doublepost]
Anyway, you still have the option to replace RAM,CPU,SSD in other laptops, so go for it as long you can.
But don't expect this to last long, this topic will hit you again, sooner than later.
Have fun...
Btw. I'm looking forward to my semi maxed out MacBook Unprofessional 15" 2016 to dev on.
Time is money!
[doublepost=1479579844][/doublepost]
Love it!
One thing I agree with is that for this price (insane price) they should have definitely allowed for a 2 year warranty. If my 4k machine dies on day 366, I don't see why I would ever return to Apple again.
I note that every laptop I've had that had upgradeable memory, I've upgraded the memory before I stopped using the laptop. And every laptop I've had that had upgradeable storage, I've upgraded the storage.
It's true that other vendors are also shipping non-upgradeable machines... But they are also offering a choice of whether you want an upgradeable or non-upgradeable machine.
It's true that other vendors are also shipping non-upgradeable machines... But they are also offering a choice of whether you want an upgradeable or non-upgradeable machine.
One thing to point out is that the 13" MBP without the touch bar does have a replaceable SSD while the version with a touch bar does, giving some credence to space as a reason for it, which in a small way reinforces the argument about Apple's obsession with thinness factoring into the decision.
That's what they do now but will they do so in the near future? Looking at IT in general I don't see them keep offering it. Everything seems to be moving towards those 2-in-1 devices which are non-upgradable (and most are even worse because they don't offer something like Thunderbolt).
Your the second person to seemingly take my statement out of context... I simply addressed the "wearing out" concerns of another post... so to be clear, I'm not saying the SSD will last 20 years... any given SSD could die tomorrow, just like any electronics. But there is virtually no chance under typical usage of "wearing out" the memory chips during the usable lifespan of the laptop. The length of warranties has zero to do with SSD's wearing out.
LOL. It does to the manufacture that is liable for early failure. Warranties are based on the cost to the manufacture of the failures, advertising value of length of warranty and the additional margin to add into cost to cover. MTBF does not mean they all last that long. Some fail quite early and some last many times longer than MTBF.
Ask Samsung about warranty costs associated with Note 7.
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LOL. Still comprehension fail. I'm talking about write cycles and wear levels of the memory chips. See Q6's Post #41 of this thread. You're talking about something totally unrelated.
I have my entire Mac OS on an EXTERNAL SSD drive. In case the SSD craps out, I can use a backup OS on the internal hard drive while I order a new SSD and restore from a Time Machine backup. If the entire machine goes down, I have my Macbook Pro to fall back on (which is also used on a daily basis). If both of those go down, I have a Windows gaming rig I could use. If the power goes out, I have the Macbook Pro and iPad I can use. If the cable internet goes down, I have a mobile backup router I can use that has its own internal battery.
If you are a professional who uses their tech to make a living, redundancies are vital.
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Actually with an iPhone, the failed part probably WOULD be replaced. iPhones are far more fixable than the latest Macbook Pro. Replacing a button or speaker on an iPhone is not a major repair, and could probably be done by most repair shops that deal with phones.
Given how expensive the latest Macbooks Pros are, the fact that they are disposable tech that is more difficult to repair than devices at less than HALF the value is beyond ridiculous. Personally, the repairability issue is of MAJOR concern to me. I won't even consider purchasing one of these, based on repairability alone. I will NOT buy a device at this price point that could crap out after a year or two outside the warranty, and has to be thrown out, because it can't be fixed.
I'm curious, how did you get it to show 175 Host Writes? I downloaded this app but mine doesn't show that?
Must be a difference in the hardware, as it always indicates on my MBP`s. Try running a selftest first, might also need to be on an admin account.
Q-6
When the thing is under warranty and Apple agrees that it's covered, this works out pretty well. It gets ugly fast when it's out of warranty and that dead power button means a new motherboard or a whole new MacBook Pro.
Its the direction mobile computers are going. Its not happening so fast in the windows world but its happening there too and its not like apples laptops haven't been essentially locked down for 4 years already. I have no idea why anyone expected this release to be any different. If you don't like that in apples computers then move to someone else you are clearly OS agnostic, just accept that this may be your last user upgradeable notebook it may well be the case.
Real "professionals" have a capital replacement budget for all essential equipment by the way. Any pro, in any field, worth their salt can replace any equipment they need at the drop of a hat, that is what being professional is all about being prepared for any eventuality and having the means to fulfil your contract whatever the hiccups or needs of the job.
Not necessarily. There are plenty of "Pro" folks that probably need more CPU/Memory power than most other people in the world, doing video editing is a good example. I've been around plenty solo or small shop designers and video editors that are very good at what they do, they create professional work, they are looked at as professionals by other businesses that use them, but to say they are ready for catastrophic failure at any moment would be a lie. Very few people are IMO.
I don't think that gauging whether someone has 3k sitting around to immediately replace their laptop that they just spend ~3k on is a good measurement of whether or not the are professional. Maybe that makes them not as smart as others
.