Because "Pro" means you can't repair it ;)

[MarsViolet]

Its the direction mobile computers are going. Its not happening so fast in the windows world but its happening there too and its not like apples laptops haven't been essentially locked down for 4 years already. I have no idea why anyone expected this release to be any different. If you don't like that in apples computers then move to someone else you are clearly OS agnostic, just accept that this may be your last user upgradeable notebook it may well be the case.

Real "professionals" have a capital replacement budget for all essential equipment by the way. Any pro, in any field, worth their salt can replace any equipment they need at the drop of a hat, that is what being professional is all about being prepared for any eventuality and having the means to fulfil your contract whatever the hiccups or needs of the job.

Spoken like a master apologist without a clue. The reality of being a pro is that it's a cutthroat world. Sometimes you have to bid so low just to get a job that you barely make a profit. Sometimes you don't make a profit at all, but you do it anyway because you need the credit for your reel. The last thing you need is to have a drive fail in the middle of a job and have to fork over a pile of cash just to get rolling again. If a drive fails, you need to be able to swap a drive and be up and running again 20 minutes later. That's why to call these things "pro" is so absurd. They're not for pros. They're for prosumers. They're great prosumer machines, but a true pro machine would allow drives to be swapped, RAM to be upgraded, batteries to be replaced and so on.

 

[therealseebs]

Spoken like a master apologist without a clue. The reality of being a pro is that it's a cutthroat world. Sometimes you have to bid so low just to get a job that you barely make a profit. Sometimes you don't make a profit at all, but you do it anyway because you need the credit for your reel. The last thing you need is to have a drive fail in the middle of a job and have to fork over a pile of cash just to get rolling again. If a drive fails, you need to be able to swap a drive and be up and running again 20 minutes later. That's why to call these things "pro" is so absurd. They're not for pros. They're for prosumers. They're great prosumer machines, but a true pro machine would allow drives to be swapped, RAM to be upgraded, batteries to be replaced and so on.

Pretty much this.

I also feel I should point out, the claim that this is "where the world is going" isn't really true. It's where the consumer-level laptops are going, sure. That's because in Windows land, those have to be be able to retail for $300-600. You buy a $2k laptop, you're going to expect much better treatment and much better maintenance experiences.

 

[MarsViolet]

Pretty much this.

I also feel I should point out, the claim that this is "where the world is going" isn't really true. It's where the consumer-level laptops are going, sure. That's because in Windows land, those have to be be able to retail for $300-600. You buy a $2k laptop, you're going to expect much better treatment and much better maintenance experiences.

Right. Which makes the $4,000+ price tag for a fully loaded MacBook Pro pretty darn silly.

 

[Ataricade]

Lmao look if you don't like that the SSD is soldered on then desolder it and repair/upgrade it. If its broke fix it. Its just a circuit board. Your only excuse is if its a custom and there isn't a data sheet. Otherwise, its all fixable.

 

[Hank Carter]

Current SSD's under typical usage should be good for 20 years. That's not something to worry about.

Really? The one in my machine died after barely two years without warning.

Good thing it wasn't soldered in and I was able to replace it on the road despite the torx screws and proprietary connector on the SSD.

 

[therealseebs]

Lmao look if you don't like that the SSD is soldered on then desolder it and repair/upgrade it. If its broke fix it. Its just a circuit board. Your only excuse is if its a custom and there isn't a data sheet. Otherwise, its all fixable.

No, that's nonsense. One of the things I pay a premium for is not just the theoretical possibility of repair, but ease of repair using standard components. The $2k or so Dell I just got? 100% standard PCIe and 2.5" drive bays. I can go buy any standard drive and it'll work. That means two things:

1. Parts cost less because they're standard components.
2. Easier repair.

If someone wants me to spend two hours messing around with desoldering chips, they can pay me for it.

 

[Ataricade]

No, that's nonsense. One of the things I pay a premium for is not just the theoretical possibility of repair, but ease of repair using standard components. The $2k or so Dell I just got? 100% standard PCIe and 2.5" drive bays. I can go buy any standard drive and it'll work. That means two things:

1. Parts cost less because they're standard components.
2. Easier repair.

If someone wants me to spend two hours messing around with desoldering chips, they can pay me for it.

Totally agree as far as standard parts being easier. Is Apple using weird parts?

 

[bopajuice]

That's why a real pro has a contingency plan (aka a backup machine)

This also applies to some other very important components such as mobile phones and tablets. Smartphones are even more important than computers nowadays.

So you are saying we should buy a back up computer in case our $3000 to $4000 laptop takes a dive? Professionally speaking that is...

 

[Gregintosh]

Not sure what people here do for a living, but I haven't upgraded a computer since maybe 2009. It would be nice to have the option but it's not a deal breaker for it not to be there.

If you are running something so mission critical that you always carry a spare hard drive replacement and tools to do the job with you then this news really sucks. But I am fairly sure 99% of people here would survive just fine should a hard drive fail -- which is more rare with SSDs than it was with spinning drives.

Here's some options for you if you are so worried about the very unlikely event the SSD fails:

1. Buy a $50 external USB 3 or thunderbolt hard drive and install the OS on it along with all your apps. Now you have a backup OS install you can INSTANTLY use. If you want it to be fast, get a $100 external SSD.

2. When you take the computer in for repair, ask for a replacement unit right away. If they can't provide one and can't give you a loaner, just buy another one and return it. You won't lose much productivity because you will already have your OS and apps installed on your external drive from step 1.

3. If you need to ship it out cause you don't live near an Apple store, you can do the same as point number 2, except you'd be buying online.

A bit of a hassle sure, but you're still not very long without a working computer and keep in mind that the likelihood of SSD failure is minuscule compared to the rates of hard drive failures a few years ago.

 

[happyslayer]

I've been a computer consultant for the last 21 years and it is my general opinion that Apple has always made upgrading their machine's either very difficult or at least more difficult than others. In fact, in one of the Steve Jobs biographies (documentary or book or maybe both) he was quoted as saying something to the effect that he didn't want users opening the cases or generally messing with stuff. Their (Apple's) computer cases are usually a pain to take apart, often like a Chinese puzzle box (thank god for YouTube videos!) They often require special screwdrivers with odd head configurations--I have a whole drawer full of iFixit special tools for various models of laptop, phones and iPods. Also the parts have often been something special with different hard drive connectors, special cables, special brackets, and even video cards that had to be "made for Mac." OWC is usually one of the few places where you can find compatible parts, if they even exist.

And the MacBook Pros are usually made for people with "pro" jobs like photographers, programmers, Movie makers/editors, journalists, etc and those types of people are my clients; they know their jobs and the software they use, but they usually don't know anything about upgrading or fixing their machines--that's why they call us tech types.

Though many of us on these forums can take Macs apart and are happy and willing to jump through the hoops to upgrade them, sometimes just for the challenge of it, they usually aren't that easy to actually fix or upgrade. And the average person--the average Mac consumer--would never even consider it--Pro or otherwise.

(One model exception: the early 2011 MacBook Pro was insanely easy to upgrade the drive and RAM; I've still got my old one as a test machine with 16GB RAM and a 500GB SSD--works great!)

So this trend of making everything non-upgradeable and mostly unfixable has been going on for a while and I am not surprised we are here now.

That being the case, always buy Apple Care within that first year (I set my calendar to alert me 11 months after purchase so I don't have to add another $250 to the purchase price. And hey, it's a write-off for next year.

Am I happy about this state of affairs? No. Am I surprised? No. But regardless, I still think MacBooks (Pros, Airs and standalone) are way better than any Windows equivalent laptop. (I work on lots and lots of those also--I hate you Windows 10!) And, I actually do appreciate the laptop getting thinner and lighter since it lives in my bag and when not using it, I carry it most everywhere all day long.

My two cents.

 

[Chancha]

My last job was a music recording studio where we easily have 20 units of 2012 Mac Mini's installed everywhere. Some times it is a recording I/O hub, sometimes a server, sometimes an account database, sometimes it is a multimedia hub in a living room, or sometimes even a fully loaded one is capable of simple editing tasks with after market SSD and RAM. If one of them fails, just pop the drive out and stuff it into another Mini and we are rolling again in 20 minutes. A small foot print computer with built-in firewire, USB3, Thunderbolt (miniDisplay), 2 SATA cables, SO-DIMM RAM slots, runs OS X for less than a 1000. What a wonderful machine.

Guess what, we can't do any of that at all with the 2014 Mini.

 

[Samuelsan2001]

So you are saying we should buy a back up computer in case our $3000 to $4000 laptop takes a dive? Professionally speaking that is...

Professionally speaking that is the only sensible option!!! Or at least have the means to replace the computer when needed. Anyone who thinks it's professional to rely on equipment that can fail at any time (all computers and electronics) without a back up plan is just not professional...

 

[IndigoDesign]

My last job was a music recording studio where we easily have 20 units of 2012 Mac Mini's installed everywhere. Some times it is a recording I/O hub, sometimes a server, sometimes an account database, sometimes it is a multimedia hub in a living room, or sometimes even a fully loaded one is capable of simple editing tasks with after market SSD and RAM. If one of them fails, just pop the drive out and stuff it into another Mini and we are rolling again in 20 minutes. A small foot print computer with built-in firewire, USB3, Thunderbolt (miniDisplay), 2 SATA cables, SO-DIMM RAM slots, runs OS X for less than a 1000. What a wonderful machine.

Guess what, we can't do any of that at all with the 2014 Mini.

Rocking that legendary 2012 mac mini for my graphic design small business. Loving it. If i knew back then... I'd have gotten a few more... best value/money Apple has ever produced imo.

 

[Chancha]

Professionally speaking that is the only sensible option!!! Or at least have the means to replace the computer when needed. Anyone who thinks it's professional to rely on equipment that can fail at any time (all computers and electronics) without a back up plan is just not professional...

What about having 2 identical computers that can ALSO swap parts between each other? Professionals have known to keep a backup machine since the dawn of time, the only difference Apple makes is to make each individual machine less serviceable by the user.

 

[Samuelsan2001]

What about having 2 identical computers that can ALSO swap parts between each other? Professionals have known to keep a backup machine since the dawn of time, the only difference Apple makes is to make each individual machine less serviceable by the user.

And that is apples way and always has been if that's not what you want then don't buy their stuff, do your research and buy what is relevant to your work like a bloody professional!! Also a professional will have a proper backup system and a spare system can be back online within an hour or two without the need to swap any parts.

 

[Chancha]

And that is apples way and always has been if that's not what you want then don't buy their stuff, do your research and buy what is relevant to your work like a bloody professional!! Also a professional will have a proper backup system and a spare system can be back online within an hour or two without the need to swap any parts.

A time machine backup as recent as an hour old would take hours to be installed into a replacement Mac. And then cloned copy of a system is likely not backed up as recently as that. Of course I can work a backup strategy around the fact of those mentioned and probably just migrate to another working machine with all the active data on drives or what not.

The fact is with every step towards portability, one will sacrifice some bit of readily available redundancy. Whether or not a a professional scenario can benefit more from one or the other is a subjective and relative.

 

[Samuelsan2001]

A time machine backup as recent as an hour old would take hours to be installed into a replacement Mac. And then cloned copy of a system is likely not backed up as recently as that. Of course I can work a backup strategy around the fact of those mentioned and probably just migrate to another working machine with all the active data on drives or what not.

The fact is with every step towards portability, one will sacrifice some bit of readily available redundancy. Whether or not a a professional scenario can benefit more from one or the other is a subjective and relative.

Well you could take advantage of the brand new MacBook pros with the fastest and most bandwidth I/O of any laptop and reload a machine in a very short period of time. A good back up drive can be booted from with no loss of performance using tb3 as well, that is of course if you aren't using legacy tech because of the perceived deficiencies of a great notebook. ....

 

[8692574]

Soldered ram? I can go with it (and max it out when I buy it), soldered HDD /SSD ? No way.

I mean the ssd will not last forever, and it might need replacement (many of my computer had hdd or ssd failure).

So having the "second shortest life" (the first might be the battery) component soldered on is a no go!

 

[MarsViolet]

Well you could take advantage of the brand new MacBook pros with the fastest and most bandwidth I/O of any laptop and reload a machine in a very short period of time.

Ha. There's nothing slower than a Time Machine restore, and that fast SSD would hardly make a dent.

 

[aevan]

Honestly? I got nothin'. This is the worst Apple experience I have had in nearly 30 years of Mac use. The highlight being that the built-in display on mine has developed flaws. And I can't check for what's very likely a loose cable, because of course they had to use special new screws that don't use any previously used standard bits.

My question is - and I would really like to know - if you don't have anything positive to say about new MBPs - why are you an Apple customer? I mean, why did you buy a Mac, like, ever? If you can't appreciate the things that make Apple what they are (and I'm not trying to sound condescending here, not everyone cares about the same things) - why did you ever get into Macs? Weren't the PCs always a better choice for you? If you care about being able to open up your computer, replace parts, etc. etc. - PCs were always better at that.

 

[Chancha]

Well you could take advantage of the brand new MacBook pros with the fastest and most bandwidth I/O of any laptop and reload a machine in a very short period of time. A good back up drive can be booted from with no loss of performance using tb3 as well, that is of course if you aren't using legacy tech because of the perceived deficiencies of a great notebook. ....

I feel that the "pro or not" debate often runs around this point in circles: the new MBP is an added expense to improve a workflow that already worked before. Some people find it justifiable and a welcomed change, some others consider it a bad idea as far as his particular profession is concerned. The bottom line isn't just cost-efficiency, it is also the number of choices as well, and I think a tool being versatile is also a pretty positive professional attribute.

 

[Samuelsan2001]

I feel that the "pro or not" debate often runs around this point in circles: the new MBP is an added expense to improve a workflow that already worked before. Some people find it justifiable and a welcomed change, some others consider it a bad idea as far as his particular profession is concerned. The bottom line isn't just cost-efficiency, it is also the number of choices as well, and I think a tool being versatile is also a pretty positive professional attribute.

That is fair but bashing a great product because of your own preferences seems a little pointless especially when you have this unusually balanced opinion.

 

[jerryk]

Gosh, "a couple of hours" sounds way faster than the five minutes it takes to swap drives between two laptops.

And spending $3000 to have a backup machine hanging around sounds a lot more expensive than 2 hours of time. It is all about trade offs.

 

[Samuelsan2001]

And spending $3000 to have a backup machine hanging around sounds a lot more expensive than 2 hours of time. It is all about trade offs.

And the back up machine will need updating anyway because there is currently no way to have two computers synced the same anyway.

 

[Trusteft]

1. My only Apple computer is a late 2012 Mac Mini which I like very much.
2. All my other computers run Windows 8.1, XP, Ubuntu. 3 laptops, 1 tablet, 1 desktop, apart from the tablet, they can all have their drives replaced. The tablet has an microSD card which can be replaced, but the OS drive is built in and not replacable. I bought the tablet for almost 200 euros a couple of years ago. It still works though I don't use it daily.

The way I see it, the problem with going for all soldered, not replacable, having to rely to the company for even the smallest of service, component replacing, is longevity most of all.
Everything breaks down. Given enough usage and/or time.

If I buy a laptop that I can't replace the drive or memory, two components which from my experience have a pretty damn good chance of needing replacement after time, then what I am buying is a computer which has an expiration date. Not based on if I can use it online any more (say 15 years from now), or use the latest software, but simply the ram can go bad, or the drive stop working. Everything else can be fine, but that machine is now useless. Not even good as a museum piece. That is a waste of technology. That is a waste of resources. Not very green.

Apple (in this case) is not going to provide repairs for them 15+ years from now. More likely not even 10 years from now. You bought this computer and you want to use it, if nothing else, for sentimental reasons. But the drive/RAM is bust. Nothing you can do about it. Any other computer, even decades from when it was new, you can still find and replace these two very important (and prone to failure) components. Not with these new laptops.

For me this is unacceptable. Not because I might want to upgrade them, but because I might (will?) need to replace ram/drive and it won't be possible.

I do hope Apple reverses this strategy in the future, at least for the desktop systems. I refuse to use Windows 10, I want to use macOS for my future needs, but, I will not buy a computer which has such a (for me) serious design flaw.