Jealousy? People keep telling me iMessage is outdated tech. If it's so outdated and clunky then why are they doing everything they can to get on it? Maybe the same reason companies make fake iPhones that run android?
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Beeper Mini Resorts to Jailbreaking iPhones to Rescue Blue Bubbles
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I would say the RCS Universal Profile offers a bit more than a basic upgrade over SMS/MMS. It does have the enrichment features which I think will satisfy most people (e.g. sending high quality photos/video, group chat support, read receipts), and from a security perspective, although it doesn't have E2EE it does have meaningful security enhancements over SMS, such as in-transit encryption, and better authentication/verification mechanisms (in theory better protection against message spoofing).
On E2EE, I actually think most people** don't care, but for it to be added it will presumably need to be brought into the Universal Profile standard as there wouldn't be much point for Apple to implement their own RCS E2EE add-on which only worked between Apple devices (since iMessage already does this), and they won't want to use the E2EE add-on currently used and controlled by Google for its own RCS client (Google Messages). Probably GSMA, Apple, and Google would need to collaborate for standardised cross-platform E2EE to happen so I don't see that being available for a while. The following suggests IETF's MLS is a potential way forward: https://security.googleblog.com/2023/07/an-important-step-towards-secure-and.html
** When I say most people, I'm excluding people who spend their time on tech discussion forums!
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No matter what happens from here, I feel like Beeper did good work in exposing Apple's motives in having iMessage. Making their own customers use unencrypted messages without proper multimedia features until RCS is finally adopted by Apple has been going on for years, but this showed just how fake Apple was being by pretending there was any real reason to not have iMessage interoperability.
Hopefully the DOJ investigation into this comes to fruition and forces Apple's hand to stop actively hurting their customers.
Hopefully the DOJ investigation into this comes to fruition and forces Apple's hand to stop actively hurting their customers.
What motive was exposed? Apple chose to not allow iMessage interoperability with third-party apps and services. Why would they need more of a reason that that?
Except their own customers had plenty of non-Apple options for encrypted, rich messaging. Apple doesn't have to be the solution to every problem.
Makes no sense at all. I’ve never met one person on any platform that has no apps other than stock apps. iMessages is an iPhone only messaging app. If you want it get an iPhone if you want to be able to send messages with media in full quality use a different app. It’s really not that complicated. I don’t understand why everyone makes this into a life altering issue. You don’t have an iPhone. There are millions of apps for messaging that are cross platform. If someone wants to talk to you they will use the app. That’s all there is to it.
Other chat apps already exist. If users aren’t willing to download WhatsApp or telegram to have a better experience with one another, I think that says more about that particular group of iPhone users than it does about Apple.
I have never understood this argument. I am not trying to come down on you, toobravetosave. You just happened to state when I was thinking about it...
My BIL and SIL are on Android. When I want to send them high-quality video, I just email it to them. Or post it on a family shared album we all contribute to.
I understand text is a little easier, but I so often hear people make it out to be IMPOSSIBLE to send high quality video to Android friends because of pernicious Apple. And it's just not so!
Text may be a preferred method, but it's not the only one.
Again, not singling you out, toobravetosave. I just don't understand the argument.
And I do not understand your argument 🤷♀️
Emailing is disorganized and does not support a coherent group experience like texting so besides my philosophical confusion you also aren’t even making a correct comparison
But it's always framed as "I can't send X to my Android friends!" It's never "I have a group thread that I can't possibly deviate from, so this is a problem."
And I don't see how email is disorganized. I don't even know what you mean there, honestly.
Comparisons are, by nature, not exact or precise. Otherwise the two things being compared would be the same thing and there'd be no reason to make comparisons in the first place. Email is a perfectly valid and serviceable digital communications method that allows one-to-many contact, replies, and high quality video. I get that it's not the same as text, but if the important thing is the quality of the video, then shouldn't that be taken into consideration?
I understand that group threads are a thing and they matter to people, but I've never once in my life been vexed by being unable to text a high quality video to my Android friends. If the version that comes over SMS isn't good enough for them, I have other ways to show it to them. Maybe I just don't send a lot of video. 🤷♂️
I think you’re just being obtuse. I could print out pictures and mail them if I wanted too but the entire point of these devices is convenience.
And when the only reason texting on a iPhone isn’t up to date is Apple dragging their feet then yeah I’ll complain.
Complaining is why Apple went from saying they aren’t interested in rcs to being interested. They actually do care about complaining
Well, I can't prove it, but I'm not being obtuse.
I just don't see how email is demonstrably less convenient than a text. Obviously printing out a picture (or burning a DVD and mailing it) is vastly less convenient, but claiming it as a comparison is an exercise in -- as you say -- obtuseness or disingenuousness.
And I don't see why anyone wouldn't switch to an app that performs the functions they need instead of continuing to use one that doesn't.
But clearly you send many more videos than I do and therefore Messages' limitation is something that must vex you considerably, and I think that's too bad because in an ideal world, you wouldn't have that vexation in your life.
Fortunately the RCS addition has a good chance of fixing that for you, and I genuinely hope it does.
I was interested with Beeper because I do not use iPhone while my kids want to use iPhone because of iMessage.
Even though I live in the US, I am from Europe and all of my friends use Whatsapp and I don't like iPhone. My first few smart phones were iPhone, that were provided by my company and then I moved to Android and never looked back. I have nothing against the device or the company but it does not work for my use cases. It is as simple as that. I don't have a love hate relationship with iPhone or Android, I don't identify myself with any of these companies or devices but Android works better for my use case that is why I like it more. These are just devices for me like a spoon, a screw driver, a chair etc. I am more comfortable in one chair and not the other.
But my kids wanted to use an iPhone and I was totally ok with it and bought them each an iPhone but I lost parental control over their devices because like the iMessage problem Apple does not allow me to use parental controls over devices of my kids without an iPhone and I don't want to use an iPhone. So I was looking for a solution and learned about this app. Looks like Apple blocked them. I will still try the jail breaking route as I am an engineer who is comfortable with technology. If it does not work it is ok.
I see you wrote so many messages about this. The question is why are you so much invested in a company, brand or device? What is missing in your life that you are trying to fill with this fandom? I suggest you to see " The Fan" movie from 1996.
Going on for years? Google only added full E2EE in August, 2023, less than 5 months ago.
Group chat did not have E2EE before August, though it was in beta for a few months before that. One-to-one messaging had default E2EE from June 2021, I believe. I believe E2EE can still be turned off. Your comment did not accurately reflect any of those facts. It would be like me saying Google had bad motives for not having E2EE on everything prior to August 2023... which is not true.
The question is why you think a company should help you manage their devices from another company's devices. As an engineer, do you help competing companies use your work?
Because Apple is a monopoly in the US. It has 87% market share among teenagers in the US. If you allow such a company to force everyone to stay in their ecosystem this will hurt all of the society. This is why there are anti monopoly laws in every country.
I think as Apple fans you should be more concerned about this situation than myself. iPhone's market share was 44% at the end of 2018 now it is close to 60% in the general population and 87% among teenagers. Apple will have much less incentive to give good prices or even services when its share reaches 87% in the general population. You have no interest in defending Apple when it forces me, a person who does not want to be in its ecosystem, to buy its products (yet interestingly many Apple users do that). On the other hand I will see much better prices and incentives for Android going forward as Android's market share gets smaller here.
But I don't expect Apple to do anything about it and I don't think regulators in the US have teeth to do anything about it either. EU regulators would do something but iPhone's market share is much smaller there (around half of its share in the US ~30% vs ~60% in the general population). So I am looking for my own solutions. If I can find them I will use them. Everyone for themselves.
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Except rational reason has to involve facts, not personal opinions about what words like monopoly mean. Apple is nowhere near a monopoly, in the US or elsewhere. Marketshare in one specific segment does not make a monopoly. If it was an actual monopoly, you would be using an iPhone to manage your kids' devices, and not trying to use an Android device (which you were able to easily acquire because Android has over 40% marketshare in the US).
Holy moley, you edited your post and made it worse. Apple is not forcing you to be in their ecosystem... you are, as you told your teens you had no problem if they got iPhones (or got them for them), but obviously have a problem with that. I keep reading comments in these Beeper threads from parents about peer pressure on teens in the US to own iPhones and all I can think is "why are parents teaching their children to put up with peer pressure?". One person was running a Blue Bubbles server so his kids wouldn't be bullied for having Android. What the heck is wrong with parents that they are giving their children the message that faking that you have something is the correct behaviour so you can hang out in a chat with people that bully other people? Good lord, that is so many wrong messages to send at once.
I have Android devices and make no apology for it, because anyone that has an issue with it is the problem as far as I'm concerned, not the device itself. I also have iOS devices, but I'm not an Apple fanatic and Apple does lots of things I do not like. Having their own messaging protocol that was better than the methods that were current at its time of introduction is not one of those things, and a company spoofing an Apple device to use that protocol is another example of behaviour that I find annoying, especially when that company tries to the pitch their service as "for the common good" while charging customers to use it to piggyback on Apple's servers. That is a mighty strange "high road" to try to take. It is just annoying to read people complain like they are owed something by Apple beyond the device and service they were sold.
That said, I'm happy Apple is adding RCS and expect E2EE will be included in the final implementation, but I'm sure some people will still complain, even then.
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Apple has 60% share and as I said 87% for teenagers and its market share is increasing very fast in the US. So it will definitely become a monopoly in a couple of years if not it is already a monopoly.
I just bought an old iPhone 6s for $20 to jailbreak and use for this purpose. Let's see if this will work.
Except the people complaining the most aren’t even apple users. It’s android lmao.
Im an apple user and I’m not unhappy and most of us aren’t.
I’m sorry but that is just….extreme lmao.
But at least you’re somewhat using iMessage the legit way.
I say this as an American. You do realize this is why most of the world looks at us with negative opinions. America is not the rest of the world lol.
Android has global market share dominance. Apple
Does not lol
I’m more worried about a world where google has any persuasion of what iOS may become.
Apples current decisions have no effect on me. As long as my
Products and services work as they have and continue to do so I honestly don’t care if they make other platforms feel important.
Monopoly Power is the ability to exclude competition or raise prices and not have any competitive consequences. Anti-trust regulators define the latter as the ability to raise prices by 5% and keep them at that level without losing sales. Market share in the relevant market is also a test. If a company has over 70% market share, it is likely considered a monopolist. If the company has less than 50% market share, it probably is not. If the company has between 50% and 70% it falls into a grey zone.
If a company achieves a monopoly because of superior products or business acumen, or by historical accident, it is absolutely 100% fine. Where a monopolist gets in trouble is when it attempts to obtain or maintain a monopoly position through anticompetitive means. Once your company obtains a monopoly, then there is a wide range of conduct that can raise antitrust risk if there is a willful acquisition or maintenance of a monopoly through exclusionary conduct.
Technology trends are pretty hard to predict accurately, so "definitely" seems a big leap. I really have no expectation that the iPhone will ever get close to 87% total market share in the US, let alone in two years, but time will tell. Technically even 87% wouldn't be a true monopoly, but if they hit that I won't argue your point.
Good luck with managing your teen's phones. I really do hope it works out for you, even if I think it was the wrong way to go about it. (If it doesn't work, can I recommend you just get them Android devices, as it seems a better solution for you, at least until they are old enough to not need to be parented, and you wouldn't be contributing to your reputed Apple monopoly.)
