Being totally objective here on AW vs Garmin...

[PatrickNSF]

I seem to be in a conundrum between purchasing an apple ultra (may be updated next month?) and continuing the use of my Garmin Epix.

I've been in the Garmin camp for A LONG TIME, and I use the watch to 70-85% of its capability. Typically, I use it in combination with my GPSMap for hiking/trekking, and I use the Epix for running, cycling, etc.

I pair my Epix with my HRM that gives me fairly decent running dynamics like left/right balance, GCT, etc. I also pair with Strava and other apps.

However, I have been mulling over the idea of getting an Ultra because of the ability to untether from my phone. It would be nice to go on runs w/out having my phone. I am trying to unplug from our connected society by leaving my phone at home. However, the safety of being able to respond back to family is important.

Also, I don't know much about Apple's ecosystem on getting good running dynamic data from the sensors like you can with Garmin's ecosystem. I would love to hear what others have done as they went from Garmin to Apple (it seems to be the other way). Also, any apps for good trail maps would be appreciated...lots to learn here.

One last thing, Garmin could improve how they deploy and test their software updates. It's common for me to get stuck with a bad software update or find bugs in their releases...not a big fan of finding out I'm their guinnea pig when I'm miles out on a mtn bike ride from my car.

I still use and enjoy both. I run and cycle with my Garmin and AW, and mostly wear the AW for daily use. I use the Garmin for sleep tracking since it affects the suggested workouts for marathon training.

I’ve tried to go all-in with each one separately but they both lack in the areas the other excels in. I prefer using both.

 

[CarbonCycles]

I still use and enjoy both. I run and cycle with my Garmin and AW, and mostly wear the AW for daily use. I use the Garmin for sleep tracking since it affects the suggested workouts for marathon training.

I’ve tried to go all-in with each one separately but they both lack in the areas the other excels in. I prefer using both.

That is where it gets difficult...when I'm out running (road or trail), I don't want to take my phone but still manage to collect my metrics. It seems like the Ultra lacks in sensors for data collection and the Garmin can't access the cellular network.

 

[CarbonCycles]

I also really don't want to be that guy that wears both at the same time...

 

[PatrickNSF]

That is where it gets difficult...when I'm out running (road or trail), I don't want to take my phone but still manage to collect my metrics. It seems like the Ultra lacks in sensors for data collection and the Garmin can't access the cellular network.

When I run I use my Garmin as my primary watch – for the metrics and screen customization – and drop my AW in my pocket for music and LTE. I use RunGap to export the Garmin run to Apple Health.

For me it’s the best of both worlds. I don’t have to pretend that I don’t care about the Garmin metrics (or that apps for the AW are as good – they’re not) nor do I have to pretend that I don’t want LTE or a better music app on the Garmin – I do.

 

[PatrickNSF]

I also really don't want to be that guy that wears both at the same time...

It’s not that big of a deal. If you don’t want to wear both either drop the AW in your pocket or wear it on an armband.

 

[CarbonCycles]

Guess it's going to be a series of compromises...such is life. Always a compromise.

 

[chris432626]

Guess it's going to be a series of compromises...such is life. Always a compromise.

Yep, if you want the recovery metrics, you need to commit. I use my ultra as an iPod, and Epix as a watch. Both have caveats, but for me, swimming is a faff with the Ultra, plus I prefer the look of a Garmin.

 

[Indianwin2001]

I still use and enjoy both. I run and cycle with my Garmin and AW, and mostly wear the AW for daily use. I use the Garmin for sleep tracking since it affects the suggested workouts for marathon training.

I’ve tried to go all-in with each one separately but they both lack in the areas the other excels in. I prefer using both.

Doesn't this comprome the Garmin stats like recovery and other metrics tho.

 

[msackey]

However, I have been mulling over the idea of getting an Ultra because of the ability to untether from my phone. It would be nice to go on runs w/out having my phone. I am trying to unplug from our connected society by leaving my phone at home. However, the safety of being able to respond back to family is important.

I don’t know it circumstances and context. But consider this if you’re old enough:

It wasn’t that long so when we did not have cellphones and many of us went on long runs without thought that we needed to be tethered to communication better there simply wasn’ta way to do so so the thought didn’t even cross our minds!

So if your actual circumstances allow, think hard to assess if you really need to have communication lines when you’re working out. Maybe you do. Bit maybe also you really don’t and your standard has changed because we now know we can be tethered by communication.

If you don’t really need communication while working out, consider NOT upgrading to them Ultra and only consider it when your Garmin dies. Less e-waste.

A thought.

 

[Howard2k]

I don’t know it circumstances and context. But consider this if you’re old enough:

It wasn’t that long so when we did not have cellphones and many of us went on long runs without thought that we needed to be tethered to communication better there simply wasn’ta way to do so so the thought didn’t even cross our minds!

So if your actual circumstances allow, think hard to assess if you really need to have communication lines when you’re working out. Maybe you do. Bit maybe also you really don’t and your standard has changed because we now know we can be tethered by communication.

If you don’t really need communication while working out, consider NOT upgrading to them Ultra and only consider it when your Garmin dies. Less e-waste.

A thought.

Another option is to ignore the phone while running. You don‘t have to check every notification and answer every call. You can also use a focus to filter out a lot of the noise while you exercise too, but this seems like a simple willpower thing.

 

[JCCL]

Interesting thread. The things that you don't value (being an extension of the phone, notifications, being able to talk, etc) are what I value the most, so for me I wouldn't even think of a Garmin. And I love having an always connected iPod Nano - when I go on my walks I love leaving my phone behind and just leaving with my cellular Apple Watch and AirPods - the ultimate evolution of the iPod Nano!

 

[CarbonCycles]

I don’t know it circumstances and context. But consider this if you’re old enough:

It wasn’t that long so when we did not have cellphones and many of us went on long runs without thought that we needed to be tethered to communication better there simply wasn’ta way to do so so the thought didn’t even cross our minds!

So if your actual circumstances allow, think hard to assess if you really need to have communication lines when you’re working out. Maybe you do. Bit maybe also you really don’t and your standard has changed because we now know we can be tethered by communication.

If you don’t really need communication while working out, consider NOT upgrading to them Ultra and only consider it when your Garmin dies. Less e-waste.

A thought.

It's a compromise of having the ability to have my family check on me and vice versa. We are having 100+ days in Texas, and my family is always concerned when I'm out in it.

There are also situations when I need to check on my daughter (one has a medical condition) and a quick text message is ideal.

For me, it's more for the safety and piece of mind that keeps me connected...I just want to minimize the thought of carrying a brick of a phone with me.

 

[Indianwin2001]

It's a compromise of having the ability to have my family check on me and vice versa. We are having 100+ days in Texas, and my family is always concerned when I'm out in it.

There are also situations when I need to check on my daughter (one has a medical condition) and a quick text message is ideal.

For me, it's more for the safety and piece of mind that keeps me connected...I just want to minimize the thought of carrying a brick of a phone with me.

That makes sense in your use case. I’m the opposite. I use Garmin and have phone notifications turned off all the time on my watch.

 

[Indianwin2001]

Interesting thread. The things that you don't value (being an extension of the phone, notifications, being able to talk, etc) are what I value the most, so for me I wouldn't even think of a Garmin. And I love having an always connected iPod Nano - when I go on my walks I love leaving my phone behind and just leaving with my cellular Apple Watch and AirPods - the ultimate evolution of the iPod Nano!

that’s why everyone is different. When I’m working out, I don’t want to be bothered by anyone. I value the metrics from Garmin for my training more than the constant communication

 

[Indianwin2001]

.

 

[PatrickNSF]

Doesn't this comprome the Garmin stats like recovery and other metrics tho.

All that's comprised is the daily Stress Level, which gets fed into Training Readiness via Stress History. It's the lowest-ranked factor per Garmin, so I'm not too concerned about losing it. My Stress Level reads low most days anyway, unless it's after a particularly long workout.

 

[Indianwin2001]

All that's comprised is the daily Stress Level, which gets fed into Training Readiness via Stress History. It's the lowest-ranked factor per Garmin, so I'm not too concerned about losing it. My Stress Level reads low most days anyway, unless it's after a particularly long workout.

Nice. then it makes sense to use both Garmin and the ultra.

 

[PatrickNSF]

Nice. then it makes sense to use both Garmin and the ultra.

I don’t see why not (though I sent back the Ultra since I wasn’t going to run or cycle with it–other than for LTE and music–and stuck with my AW S7 Graphite…for now).

I’ve worn the Garmin 24/7 then have gone back to just workouts and sleep and I don’t see any noticeable difference in how it’s setting up my training. The major changes to the upcoming workout suggestions are immediately after a workout and also when I wake up in the morning. They never change during the day due to stress unless I do another workout (running or cycling, but not walking or strength).

 

[msackey]

It's a compromise of having the ability to have my family check on me and vice versa. We are having 100+ days in Texas, and my family is always concerned when I'm out in it.

There are also situations when I need to check on my daughter (one has a medical condition) and a quick text message is ideal.

For me, it's more for the safety and piece of mind that keeps me connected...I just want to minimize the thought of carrying a brick of a phone with me.

Given your circumstances, it makes sense to have communication tethering.

 

[Zelegorm]

that’s why everyone is different. When I’m working out, I don’t want to be bothered by anyone. I value the metrics from Garmin for my training more than the constant communication

It’s easy. Apple has the feature to set focus. It will be started automatically when starting the workout. You can even chose who is allowed to disturb you. And you are save. You have a real fall detection without carrying the smart phone like on the Garmins.

Isn’t the IQ like Garmins non iq features? SatIQ 😂😂😂

 

[d3vp0ll]

I went back and forth and could never wear both. I used both exclusively thinking I made my final decision, then ultimately switched back to a Garmin as my only watch.

My use case was perhaps a different than most because I primarily bought an AW for cellular and phone independence. After nearly 5 years of doing this I got more into fitness and back into distance running, and wearing my AW 24/7 for the recovery metrics became an absolutely chore. Charging it multiple times daily is quite annoying. Running with cellular sure is convenient, but if you log lots of gps time you start ti get battery anxiety and on multi day trips the AW renders useless.

The Ultra solves some of this but on LTE only it didn’t fare much better, so I returned it immediately and just use my Fenix 6 Pro Solar. It’s way more dependable as a fitness and regular watch due to a two week battery life, the Solar actually gives me an extra day as I spend lots of time outdoors (I wouldn’t buy one to get it, I just happened to get this one on the cheap). I go running and hiking in places I’m not very good at navigating alone, and the backtrack feature is just clutch - I used it again yesterday while hiking in a place I’ve never gone before. It not only routes you back to where you started, it can also build a running or hiking route for you to your starting position. Training schedules that are adaptive, daily suggested workouts, 24/7 HR monitoring, frequent HRV sampling - it just all adds up to a much better experience (for me).

The HRV sampling was perhaps the biggest issue I had while training with an Apple Watch - the samples are so far and few in between the accuracy was awful. I tried apps like Athlytic Pro but since the source data is suspect to begin with, add to it a third party app and it culminates into a lackluster experience which really started to demotivate me.

Apple needs to step up their game if the want people like us to take their watch seriously for fitness.

 

[msackey]

I went back and forth and could never wear both. I used both exclusively thinking I made my final decision, then ultimately switched back to a Garmin as my only watch.

My use case was perhaps a different than most because I primarily bought an AW for cellular and phone independence. After nearly 5 years of doing this I got more into fitness and back into distance running, and wearing my AW 24/7 for the recovery metrics became an absolutely chore. Charging it multiple times daily is quite annoying. Running with cellular sure is convenient, but if you log lots of gps time you start ti get battery anxiety and on multi day trips the AW renders useless.

The Ultra solves some of this but on LTE only it didn’t fare much better, so I returned it immediately and just use my Fenix 6 Pro Solar. It’s way more dependable as a fitness and regular watch due to a two week battery life, the Solar actually gives me an extra day as I spend lots of time outdoors (I wouldn’t buy one to get it, I just happened to get this one on the cheap). I go running and hiking in places I’m not very good at navigating alone, and the backtrack feature is just clutch - I used it again yesterday while hiking in a place I’ve never gone before. It not only routes you back to where you started, it can also build a running or hiking route for you to your starting position. Training schedules that are adaptive, daily suggested workouts, 24/7 HR monitoring, frequent HRV sampling - it just all adds up to a much better experience (for me).

The HRV sampling was perhaps the biggest issue I had while training with an Apple Watch - the samples are so far and few in between the accuracy was awful. I tried apps like Athlytic Pro but since the source data is suspect to begin with, add to it a third party app and it culminates into a lackluster experience which really started to demotivate me.

Apple needs to step up their game if the want people like us to take their watch seriously for fitness.

There are ways to get the HRV sampling increased with the Apple Watch, and that's turning on atrial fibrilation as a symptom that you have. But I think the reason that is not on by default is because frequent sampling for HRV drains the battery.

I do think the regular AW watch's battery life is a bit of a pain for regular athletes. The AW Ultra solved that problem for me, plus allows me to listen to podcasts on the run etc. without having to worry about battery life after the workout.

When I used to be a serious athlete, I paid ZERO attention to the recovery metrics provided by Garmin and just went by both experience and what my coach was noticing. After a while of "manually" honing it in yourself, you can pretty much judge what your own recovery for that period could be like.

I don't know that this is the case for you (nor am I saying that it is): I do find the over reliance on metrics that are trying to capture something that the person could learn to read (i.e., their own body and what it means) and which they should if they are serious about being an athlete a bit troublesome. When I was a serious athlete, learning to read my body was part of being a serious athlete. It was one reason that training on the track (for myself as a runner) was important because I needed to both learn pacing AND how it feels at different pacing at different levels of fatigue. And I got pretty good eventually where I could tell fairly accurately without a watch or GPS watch what pace I was running. And all of this is because of learning to read/interpret the body. I think it's so so important to learn and know how to ready your body rather than rely on some number which is basically someone else's algorithm telling you what they think you are experiencing, and it may not be accurate because the algorithm is probably more accurate at an average (population) than for a specific individual.

AWU also has a backtrack feature which I've only really used once so it's also "clutch" with regards to that ;-) AWU does not natively provide suggested workouts and the likes, but there are many other third-party programs that will.

I can see using a Garmin if you want an immediate out-of-the-box solution.

 

[PatrickNSF]

This is one of the most thorough comparisons I’ve seen –

 

[d3vp0ll]

There are ways to get the HRV sampling increased with the Apple Watch, and that's turning on atrial fibrilation as a symptom that you have. But I think the reason that is not on by default is because frequent sampling for HRV drains the battery.

I do think the regular AW watch's battery life is a bit of a pain for regular athletes. The AW Ultra solved that problem for me, plus allows me to listen to podcasts on the run etc. without having to worry about battery life after the workout.

When I used to be a serious athlete, I paid ZERO attention to the recovery metrics provided by Garmin and just went by both experience and what my coach was noticing. After a while of "manually" honing it in yourself, you can pretty much judge what your own recovery for that period could be like.

I don't know that this is the case for you (nor am I saying that it is): I do find the over reliance on metrics that are trying to capture something that the person could learn to read (i.e., their own body and what it means) and which they should if they are serious about being an athlete a bit troublesome. When I was a serious athlete, learning to read my body was part of being a serious athlete. It was one reason that training on the track (for myself as a runner) was important because I needed to both learn pacing AND how it feels at different pacing at different levels of fatigue. And I got pretty good eventually where I could tell fairly accurately without a watch or GPS watch what pace I was running. And all of this is because of learning to read/interpret the body. I think it's so so important to learn and know how to ready your body rather than rely on some number which is basically someone else's algorithm telling you what they think you are experiencing, and it may not be accurate because the algorithm is probably more accurate at an average (population) than for a specific individual.

AWU also has a backtrack feature which I've only really used once so it's also "clutch" with regards to that ;-) AWU does not natively provide suggested workouts and the likes, but there are many other third-party programs that will.

I can see using a Garmin if you want an immediate out-of-the-box solution.

Agreed, I don’t take the metrics too seriously, there are days I either rest or workout and don’t listen to them.

Yes, for AW backtrack, I’m aware and have used it. But Garmin does it better because it gives you two options: 1) go back the way you came or 2) build a route based on the activity you’re doing. That’s just dope.

For the record, I don’t think Garmin is lights out better, I can give you a laundry list of things I hate, namely:

1. No touchscreen (some have them now but even so it’s not like an Apple device)
2. No text replies. This is mostly Apple’s fault but I still hate it.
3. Not a smartwatch. I do miss my AW many times. This decision wasn’t easy but right now I’m happy.

Cheers

 

[Indianwin2001]

There are ways to get the HRV sampling increased with the Apple Watch, and that's turning on atrial fibrilation as a symptom that you have. But I think the reason that is not on by default is because frequent sampling for HRV drains the battery.

I do think the regular AW watch's battery life is a bit of a pain for regular athletes. The AW Ultra solved that problem for me, plus allows me to listen to podcasts on the run etc. without having to worry about battery life after the workout.

When I used to be a serious athlete, I paid ZERO attention to the recovery metrics provided by Garmin and just went by both experience and what my coach was noticing. After a while of "manually" honing it in yourself, you can pretty much judge what your own recovery for that period could be like.

I don't know that this is the case for you (nor am I saying that it is): I do find the over reliance on metrics that are trying to capture something that the person could learn to read (i.e., their own body and what it means) and which they should if they are serious about being an athlete a bit troublesome. When I was a serious athlete, learning to read my body was part of being a serious athlete. It was one reason that training on the track (for myself as a runner) was important because I needed to both learn pacing AND how it feels at different pacing at different levels of fatigue. And I got pretty good eventually where I could tell fairly accurately without a watch or GPS watch what pace I was running. And all of this is because of learning to read/interpret the body. I think it's so so important to learn and know how to ready your body rather than rely on some number which is basically someone else's algorithm telling you what they think you are experiencing, and it may not be accurate because the algorithm is probably more accurate at an average (population) than for a specific individual.

AWU also has a backtrack feature which I've only really used once so it's also "clutch" with regards to that ;-) AWU does not natively provide suggested workouts and the likes, but there are many other third-party programs that will.

I can see using a Garmin if you want an immediate out-of-the-box solution.

Point blank, Apple needs and should implement their own software recovery metrics and get rid of the 3rd party apps. Apple is very accurate and could come up with this if they wanted to. The 3rd party apps don’t have the $$$ to do this ACCURATELY on their own. Until Apple does this natively, I’ll stick to Garmin. Also, I’m older and been training since 1975. I know my body needs well.