Being totally objective here on AW vs Garmin...

Good post overall. Thx for that... Concerning your Garmin - which one do you use? Epix?
Yes, Epix 2.

First, I am happy that you are satisfied with your watch and its ecosystem. No cynicism.

And I also agree that the Apple Health app is not good. It is truly an awful app. But I like the idea of having an open data store that captures all health data and keeps it private.
Also, I was a Garmin owner and I was not happy with the apps Garmin provided. And also, I was not happy with the platform Garmin provided (Garmin IQ apps) to allow 3rd party vendors to implement apps. For me the provided apps were not "all I needed".
Additionally, I was not satisfied with the software quality Garmin delivered. And one big reason: I was terribly unhappy with the way they treated back porting of features. So in case you were interested in new features, you always had to buy the latest watch, no matter if there is really a technical reason or not.

So we are speaking of two ends of a spectrum: one were you get a watch with a basic operating system with no apps and on the other end a more or less closed system with all the apps "you will need". Apple is more on one side where Garmin is more on the other. Both have their advantages and disadvantages.

Garmin IQ seems like an after-thought and I personally have no use for it, we agree on that. But I’m not bothered by it, I don’t need it and I don’t use it.

No clue what you mean by “not all I needed” since I don’t know what you need that a high-end Garmin watch doesn’t provide. I mean, if you need a smartwatch to send text messages or something like that, sure, it won’t do it. But I’ll do it faster on the phone than on the Apple Watch, so why do it on the Apple Watch?

I also don’t know what you mean by being terribly unhappy with the “back-porting of features”. Actually I’d say Garmin is one of the better vendors in this regard. They support their stuff for years and back-port features, and have been fairly resistant to the idea that you’d be expected to upgrade your hardware every year, which is very much the Apple Way. I just got a Macbook Pro because my previous Macbook Pro, which otherwise works perfectly and is just as fast in ordinary use as this new M2 Max, can’t get any new OS versions from Apple for absolutely no good reason except to make them more money. Talk about a company that trumpets its holier-than-thou environmentalism from every angle!

Personally I find every single scenario where people talk about unique Apple Watch functionality rather frivolous, like they use it because it’s there, not because it’s the best way to do something. As if going cycling or running without your phone is some crucial requirement, but nobody explains why that’s the case. I carry a water bottle, a bicycle pump, and a multi-tool thing when I go cycling, why wouldn’t I take my 200g phone? Seems all fake to me, to throw away something like $10 a month for Apple Watch cellular just to pretend you have a freedom that‘s not really worth much to begin with.

What a smartwatch is good at is track your body activity, which is basically non-interactive, and glancing at it, which we’ve done since the watch was invented. More interaction, like scrolling/typing on it I think is pretty much forced, the devices are too small. Voice control is too much of a hit and miss outside of basic stuff to be really useful. Like, it’s good when you get it right, but it’s annoying to fix when you get it wrong. I barely use it on the phone and avoid it anywhere else (TV/car/etc).

From this point of view, I think the whole concept of the Apple Watch is a deeply mistaken one. They made a wearable computer with awful battery life optimized for speed, graphics and text view, given the shape, which is not what a smartwatch should be at all. In my opinion!
 
No clue what you mean by “not all I needed” since I don’t know what you need that a high-end Garmin watch doesn’t provide. I mean, if you need a smartwatch to send text messages or something like that, sure, it won’t do it. But I’ll do it faster on the phone than on the Apple Watch, so why do it on the Apple Watch?

I actually do a lot of stuff on my Apple Watch. Reading about 80% of my notifications and answering some of them directly on the watch. Love that I do not have to take my iPhone out of my pocket for such things.
Two apps I use the most are calendar and todos (Things 3). I use them heavily. Sure, could do it with the iPhone too. But for many tasks, it is easier for me to use the watch.


No clue what you mean by “not all I needed” since I don’t know what you need that a high-end Garmin watch doesn’t provide. I mean, if you need a smartwatch to send text messages or something like that, sure, it won’t do it. But I’ll do it faster on the phone than on the Apple Watch, so why do it on the Apple Watch?

What I missed the most - and as I understand it is still the same product on new watches - is a good podcast app. What Garmin delivered with the 945 is so basic, it is reminding me of the year 2000.
Also, productivity stuff like mentioned above. Don't know if it's really a feature or not, but cellular connectivity is a deal changer for me. Have it switched off 99% of my runs but when I need it (e.g. to be reachable when I really need it) it is great. Also a safety feature for my when running.

From a sports perspective, I did not miss anything. Maybe a detail here or there. Reliability was more of a concern for me. Remember well that e.g. LiveTracking on my Garmin Edge was a big joke. Worked in about 1 of 5 cases. Also routing was terribly buggy and led to a lot of annoyance.
But we are talking watches here.



Personally I find every single scenario where people talk about unique Apple Watch functionality rather frivolous, like they use it because it’s there, not because it’s the best way to do something. As if going cycling or running without your phone is some crucial requirement, but nobody explains why that’s the case. I carry a water bottle, a bicycle pump, and a multi-tool thing when I go cycling, why wouldn’t I take my 200g phone? Seems all fake to me, to throw away something like $10 a month for Apple Watch cellular just to pretend you have a freedom that‘s not really worth much to begin with.

Sure, when I do rides, I always have my iPhone with me. I am also no cyclist who records with or navigates with my Apple Watch. Did also not record rides with my Garmin watches, always had a bike computer from Garmin and later Wahoo.
But for running, I do not want to carry my iPhone with me. I have an excellent solution with my AW there.
 
And it would need especially good hardware. Better processors. Better technology. Always connected to the WLAN. LTE. A store which is a store and not a joke with payment possibilities. A real paying mechanics. A music streaming mechanism.

The hardware of the Apple Watch is capable of all of this! What does the Apple Watch need for the things the people wants? Absolutely nothing.
The heart rate sensor. GPS. ECG. Everything is at least of the level of garmin.

Apple can easily add that little functionality by a software update - for every existing watch.

Garmin is far away from that functionality
 
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Battery power is desperately missing.
That’s true. And that’s the only thing I can agree on. The point is: If garmin is moving towards a smartwatch: Do you really think it would be better? Apple is very experienced. Garmin not.

Btw: I am running more than 300k a month and have no issues with that. Half an hour every second day is enough.
 
That’s true. And that’s the only thing I can agree on. The point is: If garmin is moving towards a smartwatch: Do you really think it would be better? Apple is very experienced. Garmin not.
Yes - that will be the case!
Btw: I am running more than 300k a month and have no issues with that. Half an hour every second day is enough.
What apps do you use to track and organize everything? For me I want to stark to make more sports (not only cycling, but also running and so on). But I don't want to overpace and want to be careful - that's why I was thinking about Garmin as it has coach functionalities.
 
That’s true. And that’s the only thing I can agree on. The point is: If garmin is moving towards a smartwatch: Do you really think it would be better? Apple is very experienced. Garmin not.

Btw: I am running more than 300k a month and have no issues with that. Half an hour every second day is enough.

Same here. Doing 100km running a week and have no issues either. Would like to have a little bit more battery capacity but more out of convience than really needing it. Putting my AW7 on the charger when I am taking a shower and it is good.
Comparing it always to a diesel car vs a BEV. Sure, electric vehicles do not have the capacity to go 1000km without refueling/recharging. But in reality, it is not a big issue compared to all the features you get instead.
 
But in reality, it is not a big issue compared to all the features you get instead.
I know I made the comment about battery life. But basically, that's not what I'm concerned with in detail. I have an old Apple Watch 6 and can actually still manage it well.
But the bigger problem for me is to find good apps for coaching (I like to start running - road cycling is my hobby so far) and to track my health.
Yes - there are many apps - but so far I'm not really enthusiastic about them.
I thought that it is possibly better to implement with the holistic approach of Garmin?
 
But the bigger problem for me is to find good apps for coaching (I like to start running - road cycling is my hobby so far) and to track my health.
Yes - there are many apps - but so far I'm not really enthusiastic about them.
I thought that it is possibly better to implement with the holistic approach of Garmin?

I am an old school guy when it comes to running training. Out of interest, I tried some generated running plans (Garmin and Stryd) in the past but never followed any of them, just looked at them. Found them all rather boring and unintuitive. No idea if they are really better nowadays.

When I started running (30 years ago or so), I was simply running with no gadgets and no training plans. Later on, my hobby was ambitious road racing and for that, I read a lot of books and studied training plans. Now, I would still recommend doing this base work if you want to be an ambitious runner, even if you rely on a computer generated coach.

But sorry, I really have no knowledge about apps for running beginners. Heard about a couchto5k thing, but no idea if this is something.

If you say you are doing road cycling. The training principles of cycling and running (in the sense how you structure your training) are very close.
 
bsmr, if you’re looking for holistic coaching, I would give Garmin’s Daily Suggested Workouts feature a look. You can use it to prepare for an event, or just improve your general fitness. Although Garmin encourages you to wear the watch 24/7, I’ve been getting along fine wearing my Garmin for workouts and sleep, and my AW during the day (and in my pocket during runs for LTE and music).


What I like about using this feature is that it gives me a variety of workouts, and I can swap between running and cycling most days. If I’m not in the mood for the suggested workout for the day, I just jump ahead to something different and it recalibrates after.
 
TLDR;
Apple Watch is an excellent all-round smart watch and an okay sports watch

Garmin is a good sports watch but it doesn’t have most of the other features available on Apple Watch.
this

i am the reverse. i use mine for messages, calendar appointments, notifications as a daily work tool. workout tracking is very much secondary.
 
this

i am the reverse. i use mine for messages, calendar appointments, notifications as a daily work tool. workout tracking is very much secondary.
That’s natural. If you are doing workouts 2h a day: Then 11/12 of the day is smartwatch time 😊
 
Plenty of good choices out there. Not the Apple Watch though, Ultra or girly version. Not for me, I don’t appreciate anything it does because I just don’t need it, I think it’s an unnecessary device. What I want from my smartwatch are things that it cannot do, like a week+ battery life, easy integration with other devices such as chest straps, good offline navigation without baby-ing it constantly with a phone, a cool design, one nice watch face, and a round screen.
Not trying to convince you to go with Apple Watch, but be sure that the decisions aren't coming from uninformed bias.

The Ultra can easily integrate with other devices that use bluetooth including HRM chest straps. I use a Garmin HRM-Run with my Ultra everyday when I go run. It's also connected to my AirPods Pro for runs. True, it doesn't use the ANT+ protocol if that's what you want. And yes, you can use the Ultra for offline navigation. Use the right app and don't rely on the Apple Map. As for the week+ battery life, I never tried to turn off cellular data and Wifi on the Ultra to see how long it goes. It may not last a week; not sure.

But my point is just to be sure the decisions aren't coming from either outdated information or simply being uninformed.
 
Or for 11/12 of the day, it's phone time. What does the watch do that the phone can't? Now about those other 2 hours....
Nope. Because with the Apple Watch you can leave your phone at home. With the Garmin: not ;).
I am not someone who is carrying the phone the whole day around. Especially at home. With the Garmin you have to. It will easily lose connection to the smartphone when changing rooms or out in the garden. With the Apple Watch you have the freedom and you can be phone free without losing anything ;)

In addition it can measure your heart rate, HRV, ECG, O2, temperature... so much what a smartphone cannot do for you.
 
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Nope. Because with the Apple Watch you can leave your phone at home. With the Garmin: not ;).
I am not someone who is carrying the phone the whole day around. Especially at home. With the Garmin you have to. It will easily lose connection to the smartphone when changing rooms or out in the garden. With the Apple Watch you have the freedom and you can be phone free without losing anything ;)

In addition it can measure your heart rate, HRV, ECG, O2, temperature... so much what a smartphone cannot do for you.
It's very simple for me. I prefer Garmin Connect. I also transfer all data to Training Peaks and Polar Flow from my Garmin watch. Both of which are better than Apple Health, Athlytic and Training Today IMO. For me fitness data is more important than the smartwatch features of the AW.
 
It's very simple for me. I prefer Garmin Connect. I also transfer all data to Training Peaks and Polar Flow from my Garmin watch. Both of which are better than Apple Health, Athlytic and Training Today IMO. For me fitness data is more important than the smartwatch features of the AW.
I prefer TrainingPeaks. Garmin connect is not more than a joke. Btw. I’ve never seen anyone seriously using garmin connect only. If garmin connect is so great: Why using trainingpeaks at all?
 
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I prefer TrainingPeaks. Garmin connect is not more than a joke. Btw. I’ve never seen anyone seriously using garmin connect only. If garmin connect is so great: Why using trainingpeaks at all?
It’s all good points at all. But then you can also use an Apple Watch 😎
 
I prefer TrainingPeaks. Garmin connect is not more than a joke. Btw. I’ve never seen anyone seriously using garmin connect only. If garmin connect is so great: Why using trainingpeaks at all?
Because I had an AW for 5 years so ALL my data from the past decade is in Training Peaks.
 
I like Runalyze but the front end is very basic and there is no app, it is free so I understand that. That said I would pay for an app that collates it’s data into something slick looking.
 
Tredict is also a very nice application. No dependency on any watch sellers. Privacy included. I don’t know if they have an app.
 
I prefer TrainingPeaks. Garmin connect is not more than a joke. Btw. I’ve never seen anyone seriously using garmin connect only. If garmin connect is so great: Why using trainingpeaks at all?
I have to agree, I like TrainingPeaks and have used it since 2014.

I had a Garmin watch and hated it over time - especially the Garmin software. I hate Connect - even with my Edge 1030 it randomly won’t automatically upload rides unless I go into Connect and force it to do so. Even with that it’s a battle with the phone and Edge right beside each other.

The Apple Watch Ultra I have does the job of tracking my walking but does everything else much better than the Garmin watch.
 
I seem to be in a conundrum between purchasing an apple ultra (may be updated next month?) and continuing the use of my Garmin Epix.

I've been in the Garmin camp for A LONG TIME, and I use the watch to 70-85% of its capability. Typically, I use it in combination with my GPSMap for hiking/trekking, and I use the Epix for running, cycling, etc.

I pair my Epix with my HRM that gives me fairly decent running dynamics like left/right balance, GCT, etc. I also pair with Strava and other apps.

However, I have been mulling over the idea of getting an Ultra because of the ability to untether from my phone. It would be nice to go on runs w/out having my phone. I am trying to unplug from our connected society by leaving my phone at home. However, the safety of being able to respond back to family is important.

Also, I don't know much about Apple's ecosystem on getting good running dynamic data from the sensors like you can with Garmin's ecosystem. I would love to hear what others have done as they went from Garmin to Apple (it seems to be the other way). Also, any apps for good trail maps would be appreciated...lots to learn here.

One last thing, Garmin could improve how they deploy and test their software updates. It's common for me to get stuck with a bad software update or find bugs in their releases...not a big fan of finding out I'm their guinnea pig when I'm miles out on a mtn bike ride from my car.
 
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