Bernie Sanders Wishes Apple Would Move Some Manufacturing to US and Pay 'Fair Share' of Taxes

[OLDCODGER]

And that's what is wrong with people. Our lives should not be focused on accumulating excessive piles of material wealth.

Regarding your reply to me, myopic, distorted, sidestepping what I said, and prejudice against unions. To be for unions, is to be for worker's rights, when the company fails to take care of their employees.

What "rights"? Here's a novel idea - let the day labour take care of themselves. I hired people to, temporarily, perform a task, not to become their benefactor.

As to your philosophy - different strokes. It would seem that your philosophy is most often espoused by those without (jealous/Marxists), and the religious/controlling types. Nature granted me one short life, and listening to sermons has no place in it.

 

[Eraserhead]

So why don't you get the necessary education, work hard, and aspire to be the next CEO rather than spout the leftist hate that continues to divide America and create this false sense of entitlement?

Being CEO isn't just about having the necessary education and working hard...
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What "rights"? Here's a novel idea - let the day labour take care of themselves. I hired people to, temporarily, perform a task, not to become their benefactor.

As to your philosophy - different strokes. It would seem that your philosophy is most often espoused by those without (jealous/Marxists), and the religious/controlling types. Nature granted me one short life, and listening to sermons has no place in it.

I have no jealousy of the rich.

 

[colonelbutt]

The fact that Sanders has got so far in this election, propelled mostly by the young vote, shows how bad education standards have been in the us for the last 20 years.
Someone who toutes policies that you can not only theoretically prove can not work, we also have 100 years of empirical evidence showing they have never worked in multiple case studies.
A real worry that there are so many dumb people around ...

 

[Eraserhead]

The fact that Sanders has got so far in this election, propelled mostly by the young vote, shows how bad education standards have been in the us for the last 20 years.
Someone who toutes policies that you can not only theoretically prove can not work, we also have 100 years of empirical evidence showing they have never worked in multiple case studies.
A real worry that there are so many dumb people around ...

Bernie isn't anti-capitalist...

 

[OLDCODGER]

Bernie isn't anti-capitalist...

Neither was Lenin, initially.

 

[colonelbutt]

Bernie isn't anti-capitalist...

You must be talking about a different Bernie Sanders

 

[Eraserhead]

You must be talking about a different Bernie Sanders

Was Eisenhower an anti-capitalist too?

 

[smacrumon]

To bring the conversation back to the main topic of this thread, everyone knows the only reason why Apple employs it's workforce offshore in factories is to reduce it's costs and and increase it's revenue to insane levels. Apple is making more than $£€¥ 1 million in revenue, so Apple can afford to pay at a very minimum 30% tax in the country where the actual sale is made. Shareholders need to get used to this now. Apple paying more tax, it's coming. Regular citizens pay upwards or more than 30% tax on income around the world. Even Apple taxes its own software developers 30% of their sales! So Apple, why be hypocrites? With $£€¥ billions in profit each year, Apple is very much in a position to pay its proper fair share of tax in each country it makes the sale. So why doesn't Apple stop this profit shifting to reduce the tax it pays? It clearly has financial scope to pay proper amounts of tax. It's rather disgusting behaviour that Apple doesn't pay proper taxes. I support authorities and governments to address the laws and retrospectively go after companies like Apple for every $£€¥ they owe. Who do these companies think they are? They want all the protections that company structures allows, but they don't want to pay a since cent of tax.

 

[Eraserhead]

To bring the conversation back to the main topic of this thread, everyone knows the only reason why Apple employs it's workforce offshore in factories is to reduce it's costs and and increase it's revenue to insane levels. Apple is making more than $£€¥ 1 million in revenue, so Apple can afford to pay at a very minimum 30% tax in the country where the actual sale is made. Shareholders need to get used to this now. Apple paying more tax, it's coming. Regular citizens pay upwards or more than 30% tax on income around the world. Even Apple taxes its own software developers 30% of their sales! So Apple, why be hypocrites? With $£€¥ billions in profit each year, Apple is very much in a position to pay its proper fair share of tax in each country it makes the sale. So why doesn't Apple stop this profit shifting to reduce the tax it pays? It clearly has financial scope to pay proper amounts of tax. It's rather disgusting behaviour that Apple doesn't pay proper taxes. I support authorities and governments to address the laws and retrospectively go after companies like Apple for every $£€¥ they owe. Who do these companies think they are? They want all the protections that company structures allows, but they don't want to pay a since cent of tax.

30% tax on what? The profit in that country? The profit on the widget?

What about if they sell a product in India with a lower margin? How does that work?

 

[thewitt]

What right does the US have to tax Apple on revenue it earned by selling products in a foreign country?

None.

Apple paid taxes on that revenue in the country where it was earned. The rate is not relevant. It's about paying tax in the appropriate jurisdiction.

The US government has decided that all income earned by both citizens and corporations earned abroad will ALSO be taxed at US tax rates.

Yes, this is a confiscatory tax policy, and though citizens have no options but to pay, corporations can at least keep the income outside the country and avoid this double taxation.

You want to see this money invested in the US? Vote for candidates who support elimination of this double taxation.

Otherwise they will continue to invest abroad. It's that simple.

 

[colonelbutt]

It's a bit more then that. There is an international convention that company's only pay tax in one place. They can mostly repatriate their profits to a single jurisdiction and then pay tax. The issue is that high tax jurisdictions, like the US which is one of the highest corporation tax in the world, don't like this. iMHO it's just a case of tax competition. Global companies should seek the cheapest taxation. Uncompetitive counties are their own problem.

 

[smacrumon]

30% tax on what? The profit in that country? The profit on the widget?
What about if they sell a product in India with a lower margin? How does that work?

What right does the US have to tax Apple on revenue it earned by selling products in a foreign country?
None.
Apple paid taxes on that revenue in the country where it was earned. The rate is not relevant. It's about paying tax in the appropriate jurisdiction.
The US government has decided that all income earned by both citizens and corporations earned abroad will ALSO be taxed at US tax rates.
Yes, this is a confiscatory tax policy, and though citizens have no options but to pay, corporations can at least keep the income outside the country and avoid this double taxation.
You want to see this money invested in the US? Vote for candidates who support elimination of this double taxation.
Otherwise they will continue to invest abroad. It's that simple.

It's a bit more then that. There is an international convention that company's only pay tax in one place. They can mostly repatriate their profits to a single jurisdiction and then pay tax. The issue is that high tax jurisdictions, like the US which is one of the highest corporation tax in the world, don't like this. iMHO it's just a case of tax competition. Global companies should seek the cheapest taxation. Uncompetitive counties are their own problem.

Here are the corporate tax rates for countries around the world:
https://home.kpmg.com/xx/en/home/se...x-rates-online/corporate-tax-rates-table.html

For example, if Apple sells an iPod in Argentina, where the corporate tax rate is 35%, Apple must pay tax of 35% on all those sales in Argentina.

And, for example, if Apple sells an iPhone in Finland, where the corporate tax rate is 20%, Apple must pay tax of 20% on all those sales in Finland.

And, again, for example, if Apple sells an Apple Watch in the USA, where the corporate tax rate is 40%, Apple must pay tax of 40% on all those sales in the USA.

It's really simple for Apple to pay taxes properly and fully in each country as required, not make up its own rules to dodge tax.

Currently Apple reduces its tax liability using a spider web of transactions, inflating marketing costs in different regions, and attributing sales to other countries where the tax rate is less.

Apple uses a variety of offshore structures and arrangements to shift billions of dollars to other countries such as Ireland. For example, in the USA, the corporate tax rate is 40%, while Apple has negotiated a special corporate tax rate in Ireland of less than 2%:
http://www.businessinsider.com/how-apple-reduces-what-it-pays-in-taxes-2013-5
http://www.forbes.com/sites/leesheppard/2013/05/28/how-does-apple-avoid-taxes/
http://www.smh.com.au/business/the-...-a-zero-tax-bill-in-2016-20160127-gmeub5.html

Apple’s tax avoidance must end now.​

 

[Renzatic]

Neither was Lenin, initially.

Anyone who compares Sanders to Lenin, or brings up Marxism/Leninism in context of modern US political debate has absolutely no idea what they're talking about.

I say this as an objective fact. It's like talking about how much you hate brussel sprouts when everyone else is talking about making apple pie.

 

[smacrumon]

Anyone who compares Sanders to Lenin, or brings up Marxism/Leninism in context of modern US political debate has absolutely no idea what they're talking about.

I say this as an objective fact. It's like talking about how much you hate brussel sprouts when everyone else is talking about making apple pie.

Anyone who hasn't tried brussel sprouts baked or fried hasn't lived. Just awesome.

 

[Renzatic]

Anyone who hasn't tried brussel sprouts baked or fried hasn't lived. Just awesome.

Eugugghhghgugghg no!

I'll give them the benefit of the doubt, and say that maybe I haven't ever had them cooked right before, but...no, they're gross. Asparagus, too.

 

[TheHateMachine]

Anyone who hasn't tried brussel sprouts baked or fried hasn't lived. Just awesome.

Season brussel sprouts baked with flecks of bacon. Yea, just awesome. You even end up with these nice crispy bacon infused brussel sprout chips as some of the outer layers of the actual brussel sprout fall off and get extra crunchy.

Eugugghhghgugghg no!

I'll give them the benefit of the doubt, and say that maybe I haven't ever had them cooked right before, but...no, they're gross. Asparagus, too.

There is a ramen joint near me that serves brussel sprouts fried up in tempura batter, lightly salted and spritzed with some truffle oil. Oh man they are so good

 

[colonelbutt]

Anyone who hasn't tried brussel sprouts baked or fried hasn't lived. Just awesome.

I love it when a a sane person puts a thread back on track

Also remember a touch of butter for greens - really sets them off ...

 

[smacrumon]

Eugugghhghgugghg no!

I'll give them the benefit of the doubt, and say that maybe I haven't ever had them cooked right before, but...no, they're gross. Asparagus, too.

No joke, sliced finely and mixed into a salad as well, with a fresh citrusy vinaigrette. A little unusual, but crisp, and quite the health trip without noticing it!

 

[Renzatic]

There is a ramen joint near me that serves brussel sprouts fried up in tempura batter, lightly salted and spritzed with some truffle oil. Oh man they are so good

There are a lot of things I used to hate, but have grown to love over the years. Like spinach, for instance. As long as it's not boiled into a soppy wet glop of stringy goop, I'll eat it with just about everything. Generally speaking, I love all kinds of vegetables, provided they're not boiled to mush. I like them crunchy.

...except brussel sprouts. I just never developed a taste for them.
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No joke, sliced finely and mixed into a salad as well, with a fresh citrusy vinaigrette. A little unusual, but crisp, and quite the health trip without noticing it!

If I come across some fresh sprouts, I'll give them a try.

But if I don't like them, you owe me a coke.

 

[jnpy!$4g3cwk]

Apple’s tax avoidance must end now.

I'm very much in favor of the super-rich paying more taxes. But, it isn't as simple as you think. Without a .../GATT/WTO agreement on how corporations are taxed, it is up to the corporations to reduce their liability in any legal way. Now, you would think that at least within the EU, they could figure out how to do it, but, apparently that isn't simple even within an EU government precisely whose job it is to figure out things like this. The main issue is how to handle "intellectual property", services, software, and other less tangible products than steel. The whole VAT concept is outdated -- the intellectual underpinnings of VAT presume that most "goods" are "manufactured" with a defined material and labor input. Doesn't work for smartphones.

 

[Eraserhead]

Here are the corporate tax rates for countries around the world:
https://home.kpmg.com/xx/en/home/se...x-rates-online/corporate-tax-rates-table.html

For example, if Apple sells an iPod in Argentina, where the corporate tax rate is 35%, Apple must pay tax of 35% on all those sales in Argentina.

And, for example, if Apple sells an iPhone in Finland, where the corporate tax rate is 20%, Apple must pay tax of 20% on all those sales in Finland.

And, again, for example, if Apple sells an Apple Watch in the USA, where the corporate tax rate is 40%, Apple must pay tax of 40% on all those sales in the USA.

It's really simple for Apple to pay taxes properly and fully in each country as required, not make up its own rules to dodge tax.

Currently Apple reduces its tax liability using a spider web of transactions, inflating marketing costs in different regions, and attributing sales to other countries where the tax rate is less.

Apple uses a variety of offshore structures and arrangements to shift billions of dollars to other countries such as Ireland. For example, in the USA, the corporate tax rate is 40%, while Apple has negotiated a special corporate tax rate in Ireland of less than 2%:
http://www.businessinsider.com/how-apple-reduces-what-it-pays-in-taxes-2013-5
http://www.forbes.com/sites/leesheppard/2013/05/28/how-does-apple-avoid-taxes/
http://www.smh.com.au/business/the-...-a-zero-tax-bill-in-2016-20160127-gmeub5.html

Apple’s tax avoidance must end now.​

What's a sale?

 

[smacrumon]

What's a sale?

You are just attempting to obfuscate the taxation debate and are frankly a complete waste of time to converse with. A "sale", a "sale of an iPod", a "sale of an Apple Watch" is obvious to everyone. There is no tax trickery here.

 

[tgara]

There are a lot of things I used to hate, but have grown to love over the years. Like spinach, for instance. As long as it's not boiled into a soppy wet glop of stringy goop, I'll eat it with just about everything. Generally speaking, I love all kinds of vegetables, provided they're not boiled to mush. I like them crunchy.

...except brussel sprouts. I just never developed a taste for them.

I never boil veggies, because you're right, they turn to mush. Instead, I sautee them. For example:

Take a hot pan, add a couple tablespoons olive oil, 2-3 tbsp. chopped shallots, and a clove or two of crushed garlic. When the garlic turns golden, add a bunch of washed spinach leaves, a pinch of salt, and a couple grinds of black pepper. Sautee the spinach for 2-3 minutes until it wilts and turns dark green, add a pinch of dried dill, then serve. Deelish!

I've got this great recipe for Brussels sprouts sautéed with bacon, shallots, and garlic and finished with a balsamic vinegar and honey glaze. Yeah, it's got bacon. No need to say any more.

 

[Renzatic]

I've got this great recipe for Brussels sprouts sautéed with bacon, shallots, and garlic and finished with a balsamic vinegar and honey glaze. Yeah, it's got bacon. No need to say any more.

Man, you people are dead set on getting me to enjoy brussel sprouts. WELL FINE THEN!

And yes, boiled vegetables are the worst. They lose their texture, 3/4ths of the flavor, and replace it all with mushy bleeeehh. I try for grilled or lightly sauteed every chance I get.

 

[smacrumon]

I'm very much in favor of the super-rich paying more taxes. But, it isn't as simple as you think. Without a .../GATT/WTO agreement on how corporations are taxed, it is up to the corporations to reduce their liability in any legal way. Now, you would think that at least within the EU, they could figure out how to do it, but, apparently that isn't simple even within an EU government precisely whose job it is to figure out things like this. The main issue is how to handle "intellectual property", services, software, and other less tangible products than steel. The whole VAT concept is outdated -- the intellectual underpinnings of VAT presume that most "goods" are "manufactured" with a defined material and labor input. Doesn't work for smartphones.

Phones, apps, etc these too are manufactured with defined materials and labor just in different modes. The taxation should be consistently applied to these as well. They don't sit above the law.