With that, I fully agree, which is why people like Sanders are so dangerous.
[doublepost=1460068874][/doublepost]
I know, and China won't allow it.
Got a tip for us?
Let us know
Become a MacRumors Supporter for $50/year with no ads, ability to filter front page stories, and private forums.
Bernie Sanders Wishes Apple Would Move Some Manufacturing to US and Pay 'Fair Share' of Taxes
- Thread starter MacRumors
- Start date
- Sort by reaction score
With that, I fully agree, which is why people like Sanders are so dangerous.
[doublepost=1460068874][/doublepost]
I know, and China won't allow it.
You speak on behalf of China? Give me a break. What a joke your comment is.
[doublepost=1460091264][/doublepost]
Learn to be accurate. Not all companies have left to go to China. Those Apple employees offshore are an exploited workforce and as an Apple customer and developer that's not acceptable going forward.
Do you know anything about the way the Chinese communists gained power, and how they intend to keep it? I saw the whole thing unfold, and know that the Chinese regime would not let the peasants get any ideas above their station. Increased wealth, beyond a carefully measured amount, would be the beginning of thoughts of freedom (see Taiwan).
Do not confuse the elite with the peasants.
The Iraq war, so far, has cost less than 1T, and is a one-off venture - it will end. The grand theft proposed by the likes of Sanders would be ongoing, and disastrous to the culture of freedom.
Culture of freedom? What are you on?
I live in Europe and I have more freedom than you....
What freedoms you may ask. Well for starters I don't live in a police state. People are not getting shot all the time because of their skin color. I can smoke weed, i can have up to 1gm of cocain, heroin, etc on me and not be prosecuted (personal use). Prostitution is legal, I have affordable healthcare and education, I have 2 years unemployment, I get paid 33 days of work for each year worked if Im fired, 1 month of vacation a year, and MANY MANY more "freedoms" you don't have.
Last edited:
Thank you for your incredible insight and summation of Chinese history all in a single paragraph.
Nonsense.
Apple either ups wages and conditions of its workers at offshore factories or move production elsewhere where fair wages and conditions can be supported.
Please don't confuse yourself.
I am accurate.... tell me who's still manufacturing here in the US. I'm guessing the number of companies is less than 10% of the total and that they use 90% parts from outside the US.
BTW Mr. Accuracy... the people in China are NOT Apple employees... they work for companies like Foxconn. Do you hang out at the Microsoft site and say the same things? They manufacture in the same plant as Apple does at Foxconn. Canon, Samsung, HP they all do too.
Again... want to change it? Look for the root problem... and it's not in China or Cupertino... it's in Washington DC.
A. That paragraph encapsulates Communist China.
B. There is that "fair" word again, as meaningful as ever.
[doublepost=1460186090][/doublepost]
Perfect example as to why Spain went broke and had to beg and borrow from its neighbours. Your "freedoms" are regressive.
Spain never borrowed from EU. You are mistaken with Greece. Check your facts!
By the way we are in a global recession generated by your bank's greed and lying with their subprime AAA CDOs. Greed and lying which seems OK in corporate america since there is a loophole.
Last edited:
The Chinese peasants already have enough wealth to have "ideas above their station".
The main reason we have reduced poverty worldwide is due to progress on the matter from the Chinese government.
It's about paying people an entirely proper wage for the work they do. If you don't understand this concept, you don't need to comment. If you dispute the situation, then go try six months working at Pegatron or Foxconn.
Some context to help:
Cost of living in the USA is about 45% - 135% higher than in China. 1
Wages of factory workers in the USA is about 1158% higher than in China. 2
There is complete wage imbalance in China. Apple needs to completely up its game to correct this terrible misdeed.
1. http://www.numbeo.com/cost-of-livin...ult.jsp?country1=China&country2=United+States
2. The wage of an Apple factory worker inChina is about $310 USD per month. (2000 Chinese Yuan per month, but somewhere between 850 Chinese Yuan per month to 2030 Chinese Yuan.) The wage of a factory worker in the USA is about $3900 USD. (Notice the extra zero?)
The Chinese workers do get free board and lodging meaning the $310/month they earn is all disposable.
Living inside your workplace ain't much of a life. It more or less equates to prison if you stop and think about it. Your claim might have some ring of truth if you had mentioned workers live in dormitories at the factory, and are forbidden from cooking or having visitors. Overall, your comment appears to be inaccurate. Please provide your source that backs up your claim.
For those of you who have never been to Foxconn - and I suspect it's most of you - you have no idea what you are talking about.
The life of the workers there is so much better than the villages they left behind, the line for new applicants has 1000 people in it every Monday.
These workers are living in your socialist utopia.
They make a good wage, sending most of their money home to their family. They eat for free, live in free housing, have free healthcare, free entertainment, they are not prisoners and can leave the site at any time, they can have visitors in the common areas, not their dorm rooms - for the privacy and safety of all in the dorms.
This is not slave labor. These jobs are highly sought after by a segment of the population who otherwise would be farming rice in a village somewhere.
These workers consider themselves fortunate indeed.
The life of the workers there is so much better than the villages they left behind, the line for new applicants has 1000 people in it every Monday.
These workers are living in your socialist utopia.
They make a good wage, sending most of their money home to their family. They eat for free, live in free housing, have free healthcare, free entertainment, they are not prisoners and can leave the site at any time, they can have visitors in the common areas, not their dorm rooms - for the privacy and safety of all in the dorms.
This is not slave labor. These jobs are highly sought after by a segment of the population who otherwise would be farming rice in a village somewhere.
These workers consider themselves fortunate indeed.
You haven't disputed my claim in the slightest.
[doublepost=1460207939][/doublepost]
If you live in a dorm room you don't want visitors. It's not like the rooms are exciting - nor is it appropriate to have sex there.
This has to be one of the most inaccurate posts I've come across in a while. If you are an expert, which from your post suggests you clearly are not, could you please provide your sources with links that back up the claims you have made?
It's not the amazing experience you pretend to claim:
- Dorms with up to 10-12 workers per room, although the limit is 8 per room.
- Excessive over time worked - 50% Pegatron workers do more than 90 hrs overtime/month.
- Workers’ base wage unable to meet basic living needs
- Verbally abusive management
- Poor sanitation
- Poor housing
Once again, if you dispute the situation, then put your money where your mouth is, try six months working at Apple's offshore factories Pegatron, Foxconn, Jabil Circuit and others, then come back here and update us all on your experience.
http://www.chinalaborwatch.org/newscast/525
http://www.chinalaborwatch.org/report/103
http://www.chinalaborwatch.org/report/109
http://www.chinalaborwatch.org/upfi...bor Conditions of Pegatron and Foxconn_vF.pdf
https://www.techinasia.com/report-apple-shifted-production-pegatron-save-money-workers-exploited
http://recode.net/2015/04/06/where-...a-rare-glimpse-inside-foxconns-factory-gates/
http://www.reuters.com/article/us-apple-pegatron-labour-idUSKBN0LG0P820150212
http://www.bbc.com/news/business-30532463
No, they're living in a quasi-Communist forced-utopia, which has ABSOLUTELY NOTHING to do with the western definition of socialism. That's based upon a free market economy, with wellfare, education and healthcare provided cheaply in order to allow people to better climb yee olde social ladder without all the pitalls, and compete in said market, growing it as a whole.
Now comeon, Witt. For once in your damn life, engage in an honest discussion, rather than snipe post and run after posting about the latest winmill you're tilting at.
The 2008–15 Spanish financial crisis, also known as the Great Recession in Spain[1][2] or the Great Spanish Depression began in 2008 during the world financial crisis of 2007–08. In 2012 it made Spain a late participant in the European sovereign debt crisis when the country was unable to bailout its financial sector and had to apply for a €100 billion rescue package provided by the European Stability Mechanism (ESM). Wikipedia.
[doublepost=1460213990][/doublepost]
It is you who does not understand the concept of the free market. Pay rates are not universal, but determined by the local market. As to "an entirely proper wage", unions have made a sick joke out of that concept.
If the sole cause of the EU crisis is its social policies, then why is it that the Nordic countries, those which are most solidly welfare statist, were effected only on the lower end of the scale?
There is no such thing as a free market. Markets operate within the scope of different and unbalanced laws in different countries. The situation of Apple's offshore factory workers is one where there is unacceptable imbalance that sees Apple's offshore factory workers exploited, receiving a pittance for the long extraneous hours of work, with incredibly poor pay, in unacceptable working conditions.
Apple knows better, it must change its culture and ensure all it's employees are treated equally no matter which ever country they are working from and where they fit in the production process making our favourite devices. Some shareholders who own Apple stocks have signed up to the "ethical company charter" and are banding together to dump their stocks in protest should Apple not clean up its act by a certain date to be publicised.
The below is not acceptable:
Cost of living in the USA is about 45% - 135% higher than in China. 1
Wages of factory workers in the USA is about 1158% higher than in China. 2
Everyone knows the only reason why Apple employs it's workforce offshore in factories is to reduce it's costs and and increase it's revenue to insane levels. Apple is making more than $£€¥ 1 million in revenue, so Apple can afford to pay at a very minimum 30% tax in the country where the actual sale is made. Shareholders need to get used to this now.
Apple paying more tax, it's coming. Regular citizens pay upwards or more than 30% tax on income around the world. Even Apple taxes its own software developers 30% of their sales! So Apple, why be hypocrites? With $£€¥ billions in profit each year, Apple is very much in a position to pay its proper fair share of tax in each country it makes the sale. So why doesn't Apple stop this profit shifting to reduce the tax it pays? It clearly has financial scope to pay proper amounts of tax.
It's rather disgusting behaviour that Apple doesn't pay proper taxes. I support authorities and governments to address the laws and retrospectively go after companies like Apple for every $£€¥ they owe. Who do these companies think they are? They want all the protections that company structures allows, but they don't want to pay a since cent of tax.
There is complete wage imbalance in China. Apple needs to completely up its game to correct this terrible misdeed.
1. http://www.numbeo.com/cost-of-livin...ult.jsp?country1=China&country2=United+States
2. The wage of an Apple factory worker inChina is about $310 USD per month. (2000 Chinese Yuan per month, but somewhere between 850 Chinese Yuan per month to 2030 Chinese Yuan.) The wage of a factory worker in the USA is about $3900 USD. (Notice the extra zero?)
It certainly doesn't hurt them to have it, but their oil export isn't nearly high enough to support their entire economy by itself.
UM.. The box does however state "other items as marked thereon". Not a clear indication of fully made in USA.Um, Bernie. I just bought a new iMac and it says "Assembled in USA" on the box
http://techcrunch.com/2012/12/03/the-new-imac-designed-by-apple-in-california-assembled-in-usa/
The Mac Pro is also built here. There's probably a lot of Apple things that are built here. More importantly, Apple's core operations are in TX/CA and when I call AppleCare, it's an American talking to me.
Apple employees a hundred thousand Americans and Assembles some products here.
Plus housing, plus food etc. Which are generally free in China, if not of the same quality as Foxconn, and which aren't included in America.
[doublepost=1460218319][/doublepost]
We are talking about Foxconn, not Pegatron. I have never asserted that all Chinese factories are good.
From http://recode.net/2015/04/06/where-...a-rare-glimpse-inside-foxconns-factory-gates/ which is about Foxconn it looks fine, I've certainly stayed in worse dormitories.
[doublepost=1460218440][/doublepost]
Probably most down to too many rich Spaniards not paying their taxes.
[doublepost=1460218818][/doublepost]
I disagree with @thewitt about a lot of things, but he clearly knows his stuff about Asian factories and works with them.