guessing you have been yourself then? And worked those hour they do?
It's by no means a fun nice experience. So let's not kid ourselves. But as you say, they choose to do it because it pays a lot more than other jobs .
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Bernie Sanders Wishes Apple Would Move Some Manufacturing to US and Pay 'Fair Share' of Taxes
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It's by no means a fun nice experience. So let's not kid ourselves. But as you say, they choose to do it because it pays a lot more than other jobs .
What is considered a proper wage can be debated. In each country the cost of living is different. Basic costs of living can be much cheaper in China compared to America. This of course depends on where in China you are at. This also goes for other parts of Asia.
The correct wage and condition for any job is that which will fill the labour needs - and not one cent more.
There really is no debate about this, there is solid information on this.
So let me unpack this a bit, the cost of living in the USA is about 1.5 x - 2.5 higher than in China. But, when looking at wages of factory workers in the USA, factory workers in the USA are compensated about 12 x higher than in China.
There is a severe imbalance in the compensation, work hours and conditions at Apple's offshore worker's.
http://www.numbeo.com/cost-of-livin...ult.jsp?country1=China&country2=United+States
Please don't confuse the issues and interesting to note @thewitt works with the Apple offshore factories. But there really is no debate about this, there is solid information on this matter. Whether it is Pegatron, Foxconn, Jabil Circuit and others, these are all Apple's offshore manufacturing facilities, they produce the internals and assemble products including iPhones, iPads, Macs etc.
It's highly doubtful that you've "stayed in worse dormitories". Unless you can check the box on working 60+ hours per weeks, lived at your workplace sharing a dorm with 8-12 people, with poor sanitation, poor meals, and were remunerated only $310-350 USD for the entire month and unable to meet basic living needs, maybe don't pretend to you have a shared experience with Apple's offshore factory workers.
You say "Foxconn looks fine", so again, if you dispute the situation, then put your money where your mouth is, try six months working at Apple's offshore factories Pegatron, Foxconn, Jabil Circuit and others, then come back here and update us all on your experience.
http://www.chinalaborwatch.org/newscast/525
http://www.chinalaborwatch.org/report/103
http://www.chinalaborwatch.org/report/109
http://www.chinalaborwatch.org/upfile/2015_02_11/Analyzing Labor Conditions of Pegatron and Foxconn_vF.pdf
https://www.techinasia.com/report-apple-shifted-production-pegatron-save-money-workers-exploited
http://recode.net/2015/04/06/where-...a-rare-glimpse-inside-foxconns-factory-gates/
http://www.reuters.com/article/us-apple-pegatron-labour-idUSKBN0LG0P820150212
http://www.bbc.com/news/business-30532463
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So some context can be ascertained, care to give a run down of your occupations, your Apple Inc and other shareholdings, your current and past association with workforces in the USA and offshore?
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And you're ignoring the Chinese workers substantial benefits, there is no point in comparing wages without including benefits.
What does their work life balance have to do with the dormitory quality?
Foxconn is one of the most successful companies on earth. It wants its employees to be working hard and productively. On that basis the meals will be decent and as will the sanitation. The entertainment they provide will also be good enough to stop people hanging out in the dormitory corridors making an noise and keeping other employees awake. And this stuff won't be true at all Chinese factories, but it will be true at the decent ones.
Besides the people who work at Foxconn come from rural Chinese farms which are only slightly above subsistence levels (so probably $2-3/day), so their diet will have been poor, as will their access to sanitation.
The basic living needs are covered by Foxconn for free, so of course they are met. In fact they meet the UK living wage. To meet that I calculate that they'd need to earn £300/month in the UK, which in PPP terms in China is US$250/month.
https://www.jrf.org.uk/file/46723/download?token=vrLSe0CQ&filetype=full-report
Sorry, why as a top 15% UK wage earner who doesn't speak Cantonese/Mandarin would I do that? I'm not the target audience for these jobs.
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Please back up your claims with evidence and links to the source please, not baseless words -- "So probably" isn't sufficient evidence. Please provide detail on "benefits", previous "diet", "sanitation" levels, "Chinese farms".
Meals are not "quality" at Apple offshore factories, there is a lack of time to actually take meals, dorms at the place of employment are not quality, with 8-12 individuals per room: http://www.chinalaborwatch.org/report/103 http://www.chinalaborwatch.org/report/109
The cost of living in the USA is about 1.5 x - 2.5 higher than in China. But, when looking at wages of factory workers in the USA, factory workers in the USA are compensated about 12 x higher than in China.
There is a severe imbalance in the compensation, work hours and conditions at Apple's offshore worker's. http://www.numbeo.com/cost-of-livin...ult.jsp?country1=China&country2=United+States
You are suggesting all is fine on the Apple offshore factory work front. So, if that's the case, give it a go yourself. Please, if you support this corporate behaviour from Apple, then put your money where your mouth is, try six months working at Apple's offshore factories Pegatron, Foxconn, Jabil Circuit and others, then come back here and update us all on your experience.
I have no idea what you want me to source. Unless you're seriously trying to argue that subsistence farmers have a good life which is quite frankly a fairy tale.
I've stayed in dorms in America with more than 8 beds, I must be hard done by.
They pay enough to cover the UK living wage, of course it's sufficient.
Well if you are going to make outlandish claims, you really need to support it with evidence as I have quoted previously. It's about keeping and and maintaining integrity in the forum discussion.
No, friend. That's not the test. The test is, have you: 1) stayed in dorms of 8-12 people, 2) with the dorm located onsite at your workplace, 3) for 6 days a week, 4) working at said workplace for 60+ hours per week plus overtime, 5) been remunerated only $310-350 USD for the entire month?
Can you meet that test about, experienced all those together? The answer is no, you can not based on your previous answers. You have zero experience in this situation of Apple's offshore workforce. So if you are seriously suggesting the situation is in anyway humane or acceptable in the past or going forward, then please, put your money where your mouth is, try six months working on the production line at Apple's offshore factories Pegatron, Foxconn, Jabil Circuit and others, then come back here and update us all on your experience.
I also haven't survived on a dollar a day working the fields of my Chinese peasant farm which is the alternative. And neither have you.
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Sounds like management in many American companies.
By the way Foxconn has complied with the 60 hour maximum since 2013 and is working towards 49 hours a week, which is the Chinese maximum.
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I've always been paid more than the UK living wage, however if you're upset about these wages I don't know how you cope in America where the minimum wage is vastly below the UK living wage. To meet the US living wage you'd need to earn $13.71/hour in New York, and that isn't even as generous as the UK figure as it doesn't include any money for alcohol or money for social spending which accounts for £50/week in the UK out of the living wage here - in fact to meet the standards of the US living wage Foxconn workers would only need to actually earn $75/month.
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Well, if you’re suggesting we work downwards to surviving on 1 dollar a day, that’s a shame.
Foxconn is just one of many Apple offshore factories, so you are attempting to present a distorted argument.
Apple quotes: “Achieved 97 percent compliance with our 60-hour maximum workweek.”
http://www.apple.com/supplier-responsibility/progress-report/
CLW disputes these figures and quotes: “Workers work more than 10 hours a day, 6 days a week. 83.8% workers’ monthly overtime hours exceed 80 hours.”
http://www.chinalaborwatch.org/newscast/525
http://www.chinalaborwatch.org/report/113
CLW's claim is “supported with 1,261 original paystubs”
http://bit.ly/1qgiZaP
Both Apple and CLW data suggest a tremendous number of offshore Apple employees are working more than 60 hour weeks and only remunerated $310-350 USD (220-250 GBP) for the entire month. We are not talking about a 40 hour week, we are talking more than 60+ hours per week for a completely inadequate pay check.
If you don’t support this exploitation of Apple’s offshore workers, then do something about it. However, if you support this corporate behaviour, then please, put your money where your mouth is, try six months working on the production line at Apple's offshore factories Pegatron, Foxconn, Jabil Circuit and others, then come back here and update us all on your experience.
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The alternative job is on the family farm as a subsistence farmer, where $1-2-3/day is going to be the sort of wage they would get.
Now you've accepted that pay and conditions at Foxconn are perfectly reasonable and acceptable, I suggest we agree to disagree on the rest.
Um... Again... Source please: "alternative job is on the family farm as a subsistence farmer, where $1-2-3/day is going to be the sort of wage they would get".
Actually, correction, I do not agree pay and conditions at Foxconn are anywhere acceptable. Are you serious?
Recent Foxconn record:
Monthly base wage 2,000 RMB ($320 USD)
Dorms at the place of employment with 8 people per room?
60 hours per week plus overtime?
Suicides and workplace deaths in 2015
http://www.chinalaborwatch.org/upfi...bor Conditions of Pegatron and Foxconn_vF.pdf
http://www.chinalaborwatch.org/newscast/470
http://www.chinalaborwatch.org/newscast/472
http://www.ibtimes.com/apple-supplier-factory-shanghai-rife-labor-abuses-report-2152722
http://www.wsj.com/articles/foxconn-worker-dies-at-iphone-assembly-plant-in-china-1438934523
Your suggestions point to a very warped view of what is acceptable and what isn't. There isn't anything to disagree about, reporting here is accurate, facts are facts.
You suggest Foxconn is "perfectly reasonable and acceptable", then try work there and see if it meets your expectations. If you don’t support this exploitation of Apple’s offshore workers, then do something about it. However, if you support this corporate behaviour, then please, put your money where your mouth is, try six months working on the production line at Apple's offshore factories Pegatron, Foxconn, Jabil Circuit and others, then come back here and update us all on your experience.
Cost of living in the US really depends on what you factor in. I can tell you that an Endoscopy in California $1000-3000 while in China one could get one done for $100 or less. The difference is not 1.5-2.5X more. There are plenty of street vendors selling food on the streets where people can eat cheap. There are plenty of trains and metro transports that are much cheaper than transport is in America. Bus and Taxi costs are a fraction of what they are in America. I am comparing the basic and the cheap ends and not high ends. I live in Asia and travel often to China and other parts of Asia so I am very familiar with costs of living standards between Asia and America.
In Asia manufactures do not have to worry about employees suing them for millions of dollars every time an accident happens or every time an employee is unhappy about something. In America if a guy cut his finger or sat for 8 hours on a chair he could complain of back problems and end up suing Apple for Millions lol.. There for Apple would need special insurance and special lawyers which cost them a fortune on top of their wages just to try and keep the lawsuit happy Americans in check. I would rather own a factory or operate one overseas any day before I run one in America. An employee does not just get a salary but you have to pay the guy or gal workers comp insurance as well. On top of that they can only work 8 hours or 40 hours a wee before they start complaining. Aside from that they need 1 hour lunch breaks lol.. Then they need 15 minute breaks lol.. You would need 2 employees in America for what 1 employee in China or Thailand could do in Asia on a single working day. Then you have to pay that employee a much higher wage. On top of that the company would need to probably apply for 100's of permits to operate which cost them a lot of money as well (State and government money). Best to pay someone else to do the work for you for less. Let others worry about manufacturing.
The old saying when you sell burgers is to let the baker make the bread instead of trying to do everything yourself.
Spoken like a true market fundamentalist.
I'm sure you realize that not everyone agrees with you.
But, beyond that, I don't agree with fundamentalism of any brand.
So Apple should just put up an add and the cheapest taker matching some basic qualifications will replace Tim Cook next week ?
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Ex-businessman - in comfortable retirement, thanks.
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yes, I do. It's the reason why we have such outlandish wages for menial jobs.
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The job description would take care of qualifications. Other than that, yes.
Please try it first hand and report back.
Current business person, not ready to retire, and certainly not considering retiring on the backs of others.
The problem is that large multinational corporations have no loyalty to a country or morality other than profit. Yes I admit this is a broad sweeping assessment 
The point is when the first company moved manufacturing overseas, they all would do it if they could, to remain competitive. It's up to government, you know, the government that Republicans want to neuter, to use carrots and sticks to corral them. It won't happen otherwise.
The point is when the first company moved manufacturing overseas, they all would do it if they could, to remain competitive. It's up to government, you know, the government that Republicans want to neuter, to use carrots and sticks to corral them. It won't happen otherwise.
A lot of that is rambling and incoherent. And the parts that do read well aren't accurate or backed up with source. The truth is workers in Apple offshore factories are involved in a greater number of workplace accidents and there is a complete mismatch with work performance and remuneration for those workers. It must change now.
Here is a source http://www.numbeo.com/cost-of-livin...ult.jsp?country1=China&country2=United+States and here is another http://www.ibtimes.co.uk/iphone-6s-...e-still-violates-human-rights-workers-1525151 and more http://qz.com/602794/another-badly-ventilated-factory-making-apple-products-caught-on-fire-in-china/ http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...n-expose-factory-conditions-family-claim.html http://www.portlandmercury.com/blog...rkers-are-paid-less-than-two-dollars-per-hour http://www.chinalaborwatch.org/newscast/521
That's the whole point of going into business: to "make my fortune" - before the heart attack, and retire early. There are other things in life than worrying about other people's welfare, which won't be appreciated anyway.
As for hiring, set the qualifications, find those who qualify, then make an offer that might net the best, without going overboard. Always start on the low side, then let the prospects talk you up to a package that they will accept. Top positions are not really handled in the same manner as lower levels, and if the right qualifications are not set in the first place, the head hunters will go after the wrong people.
Tim Cook may be the best available choice for the religion followed by Apple, but it's not my religion.
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The problem is that large multinational corporations have no loyalty to a country or morality other than profit. Yes I admit this is a broad sweeping assessment
I hardly think that uncompetitive businesses would survive for long, But, if you have the union mindset, you won't care.
And that's what is wrong with people. Our lives should not be focused on accumulating excessive piles of material wealth.
Regarding your reply to me, myopic, distorted, sidestepping what I said, and prejudice against unions. To be for unions, is to be for worker's rights, when the company fails to take care of their employees.
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As a current business person, I'm certainly not considering retiring on the backs of others. That's just the lazy approach. Anyone can step on and over another person to reach the end goal. But to lift someone up, then continue on the way to that end goal is the path I prefer to take.
The mismatch, is worse at the top, where CEOs and their first mates are able to reward each other with excessive stock options, bonuses, and the proceeds of various mergers, acquisitions, and buyouts, that do absolutely nothing to increase profits or shareholder value. Companies on the verge of bankruptcy, losing millions, still contracted to pay "performance bonuses".
