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Blogger Victorious over Apple in Small Claims Case on NVIDIA GPU Failures
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A just outcomeand Im amazed that legal action was even needed, considering how astonishingly flexible Apple support/service has always been in my experience. They so often bend the rules in favor of the customer, that its bizarre to see them bendno, breakthe rules in the other direction! Certainly thats not the typical experience. Glad he won! (How could he lose?)
I guess you are done with technology in general as not one of Apple's competitors are even remotely close to Apple in terms of customer service. At least with Apple you can get somebody in the US who speaks English on the phone. Dell just had to pay out big dollars for screwing over its customers.
Further, like with any company, the lower level employees have very little authority. You have to escalate these issues up the ladder. I had a logic board die after five years. It had the logic board replaced twice under warranty, and than it died two years out of warranty. I send Jobs an email telling him how I thought the iBook was defectively designed. I got a call from his assistant the next day. Apple sent me a box for my Mac, fixed it, and sent it back to me. Once I got the iBook back, I was so happy with the way I was treated I bought a Macbook soon after, and another since then. Both have been great machines.
I've ran into Macbook Pro problems about 5 years ago...it was a nightmare experience. Most definitely not a pro-level product, especially at that price, in my opinion. I eventually had to give in returning it and taking the hit on the restock fee.
I had been off Apple products up until last November when I got an iPhone 4S. I love the phone but I dread the day I run into any hardware problems with it. I'm banking on the fact that it's a revision of the 4 that it will hold up for a long time.
I had been off Apple products up until last November when I got an iPhone 4S. I love the phone but I dread the day I run into any hardware problems with it. I'm banking on the fact that it's a revision of the 4 that it will hold up for a long time.
Mostly to get support on my Apple ****. My iPad 1 has several problems such as how it was ruined through software updates, the screen burns in, icons act weird, iPhoto is broken on my computer, my monitor acts weird with 10.6, my...
My takeaway after reading the article yesterday led from /. was the Apple reps possibly openly lied and misled the court and were only tripped up by a well informed and well documented plaintiff.
I would be more concerned with a grand jury than a class action suit (attorney employment plan).
Rocketman
I would be more concerned with a grand jury than a class action suit (attorney employment plan).
Rocketman
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Yes it is too bad that Apple didn't just replace the card or computer. Since it wouldn't have costs them anything and it would have been best for customer goodwill.
I don't think Apple can appeal in a small claims case but not sure about that.
I find it is best to be calm and document everything to get satisfaction and a positive solution. Even as things escalate always ask to speak with the next person up or whomever is at the top and write letters and keep copies. It it really important later of you are not satisfied to send copies of your letters to the BBB and even local or sate senators or consumer organizations.
Most companies will eventually resolve your problem if you keep on it and use your voice. Even thinks like Facebook, blogs and youtube postings really work if it continues to go on.
What is great for small claims court at least here in California, is that it is CHEAP for you to file and just your time. But make sure you have your documents in order. In California the maximum about you can sue for is 10K
I don't think Apple can appeal in a small claims case but not sure about that.
I find it is best to be calm and document everything to get satisfaction and a positive solution. Even as things escalate always ask to speak with the next person up or whomever is at the top and write letters and keep copies. It it really important later of you are not satisfied to send copies of your letters to the BBB and even local or sate senators or consumer organizations.
Most companies will eventually resolve your problem if you keep on it and use your voice. Even thinks like Facebook, blogs and youtube postings really work if it continues to go on.
What is great for small claims court at least here in California, is that it is CHEAP for you to file and just your time. But make sure you have your documents in order. In California the maximum about you can sue for is 10K
In perspective though, even with these type of rare events, Apple is by-far, the number one rated computer company in regards to Customer Service and Satisfaction. And has been for a long time. So, just think of how many MORE stories there are like this at the other makers. And it would be totally naive to think that Dell, Sony or any other maker doesn't have similar complaints and claims taking place.
So for those who say; "This is why I don't buy Apple", I would simply say; really?. You really think this doesn't happen anyhere else?
(Just one such example)
So for those who say; "This is why I don't buy Apple", I would simply say; really?. You really think this doesn't happen anyhere else?
(Just one such example)
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I have a BTO Macbook Pro, with the same GPU. It failed. I took it to a third party repair centre, who got the logic board replaced through Apple. It took two days. I consider myself lucky... unless it fails again
I think i should have elaborated on this particular point. Another poster has got my drift.
A one-off, out-of-warranty, issue may well attract a hefty repair bill. However, i would liken the NVIDIA GPU issue to a vehicle recall. These happen when the manufacturer admits to there being a problem and publicly offers free repair.
In this situation, i would not expect to be inconvenienced at all.
I am confused. Apple guarantees the machine will work for the period of the warranty. No longer. If it fails after that period, the machine is not defective. In this case, the machine died after the warranty was up.
He's not alone
I had this guys exact same problem with my 15" MB Pro. It refused to boot one morning. I knew about the NVIDIA 8600M problem and assumed it would be a quick trip to the Genius Bar for a replacement. Instead they did the exact same thing to me as they did to this guy.
The employee told me that since the machine refused to boot they could not confirm that it was a NVIDIA card failure. They would not repair the machine.
Other vendors settled with NVIDIA years ago and most would replace the GPU if the consumer requested it. Apple did not do this and instead waits for machine failures before replacing the GPU. Little did I know the GPU failure could fry the motherboard. I wish I would have read about this a few months ago. I would have fought harder for a replacement of a faulty product that Apple knows about.
I had this guys exact same problem with my 15" MB Pro. It refused to boot one morning. I knew about the NVIDIA 8600M problem and assumed it would be a quick trip to the Genius Bar for a replacement. Instead they did the exact same thing to me as they did to this guy.
The employee told me that since the machine refused to boot they could not confirm that it was a NVIDIA card failure. They would not repair the machine.
Other vendors settled with NVIDIA years ago and most would replace the GPU if the consumer requested it. Apple did not do this and instead waits for machine failures before replacing the GPU. Little did I know the GPU failure could fry the motherboard. I wish I would have read about this a few months ago. I would have fought harder for a replacement of a faulty product that Apple knows about.
I had the same GPU issue with both of my MBPs.
The first one they fixed without any issues. The second, the genius said that it wasn't the GPU because he couldn't get it to boot. The computer was in my car for about a week and the battery was completely dead.
The genius plugged in a newer power supply, which can not charge or power a completely dead MBP. So it wouldn't power on. I left there giving the OK for a repair at the flat $300 fee.
Later I remembered about the power adapter and called Applecare to let them know. The guy said he put a note on it to try it with a MBP power supply.
Days later I go to pick up my computer and before paying I asked to read the report. Seeing that all they did was swap the GPU I refused to pay. After arguing with different people at the store they zero'd out my repair and let me leave.
My favorite part is while arguing with the first girl she asked if I wanted to speak with someone else. I said yes imagining she was going to get a manager. She just had another random worker talk to me.
The first one they fixed without any issues. The second, the genius said that it wasn't the GPU because he couldn't get it to boot. The computer was in my car for about a week and the battery was completely dead.
The genius plugged in a newer power supply, which can not charge or power a completely dead MBP. So it wouldn't power on. I left there giving the OK for a repair at the flat $300 fee.
Later I remembered about the power adapter and called Applecare to let them know. The guy said he put a note on it to try it with a MBP power supply.
Days later I go to pick up my computer and before paying I asked to read the report. Seeing that all they did was swap the GPU I refused to pay. After arguing with different people at the store they zero'd out my repair and let me leave.
My favorite part is while arguing with the first girl she asked if I wanted to speak with someone else. I said yes imagining she was going to get a manager. She just had another random worker talk to me.
This wouldn't have happened if Apple hadn't started suing over silly things first. They're getting a taste of their own medicine, not that they're going to care much with the cash reserves they have.
This approach is what i suggest to any customer who comes to my business with this issue. For a while, i had document packs printed and ready to go. They consisted of a printout of the Repair Programme page from the Apple Support site. I would underline in pen the model the customer has. I also included various printouts of blogs and discussions (Apple's included) on the problem. Lastly, i provided some coaching on how to deal with the genius and/or Apple directly.
The genius/Apple are prepared for clueless people to turn up. They will then be fobbed off with some bluster and jargon. They are certainly not prepared for a well informed and confident customer.
Feel bad for the blogger having all that trouble, especially when he forked out for one of Apple's most expensive laptops. Why not settle out of court and get a happy repeat customer...
Ugly news.
Ugly news.
NVIDIA admitted years ago there were defects with these 8600M GPUs. Apple agreed to replace these defective GPUs when they failed, even outside the originally warranty period.
Yes I was wondering my self.
I remember a few years ago there was a problem with logic boards on the iBooks and I was hit by it twice when it broke the third time Apple send me a brand new one and one that was a generation newer and added more Ram on top of it.
I just can't believe that they would change this much.
The only other problem I had was with a iPhone 3GS that my son dropped and the screen cracked, when I explained to the genius what had happened he gave my son a new phone.
So 2 times in god knows how many items we owned and both times Apple replaced them and made good.
I think there is more to the story then what we see here.
So if Apple hadn't sued over patentable/ed property in an effort to maximize the returns on its investment and property totally in conformity with the law, this guy would NOT have sued them to get a new laptop when his broke?
It's much better customer service for Apple to just make the repair in this situation. He was clearly a power user (willing to spend extra for all the nifties), so it is in the company's interest to make sure he is happy with his purchase so he continues to be a customer in the future. I used to work at Disney, and one of the biggest things they taught me was "customer is always right." Managers, especially, have the authority to do things like give guests additional tickets, fast passes, or discounts to rectify a Disney mistake. I'm surprised someone at Apple didn't step in before it was taken to court. Hell, even money aside, it's embarrassing they sent two lawyers who, rather than speak up sooner and say "hey, we probably won't win this," lost.
It's not always about the money. Sometimes it's about telling the multi-national companies we public have a voice. Try to screw us and we will rise up to demand our justice.