Blogger Victorious over Apple in Small Claims Case on NVIDIA GPU Failures

[BornAgainApple]

Shame on Apple. I hope this is an isolated incident. My 3-yr Apple Care warranty is up in December for my 13" MBP with Nvidia 9400M GPU. Then again, I probably voided the warranty by replacing my HDD with a SSD and ripping out the optical drive for a bigger HDD

But I'm wondering why the MBP wouldn't boot. The GPU should only have affected the display. I had a similar issue in 2010 with my Dell D620 and its NVidia chip. The computer booted fine but was ultimately rendered useless because the display was unreadable, even on an external monitor. Dell sent out a tech two days later and replaced the motherboard on site. The laptop has been running terrific ever since.

 

[theSeb]

So a BTO system isn't covered? Um, I have a BTO Mac Pro, does that mean I'm not covered? Is this because he didn't have AppleCare, or that it ran out? What an odd thing to contest.




This irks me the most. Apple has BILLIONS in cash, but they would rather spend more money on lawyers fighting a simple exchange for a known issue? I don't care if this sets a precedent against Apple, backup your products and stop bullying people. This is shameful.

Damn good point. I want Apple to clarify this position.

 

[eezing]

Why in the world would this guy spend that much money on any laptop. If you need that kind of power you need a desktop to begin with. Of course a large gpu will overheat in a laptop. Did the end user max out the ram or put in more than suggested in the Apple store configuration? To me it's just common sense..guess you can sue for anything though.

Some people need a powerful computer on the go. It was not the user's fault as this is a known issue. What exactly is common sense in this situation?

Computer hardware manufactures should be required to support their product for longer in this country. It blows my mind that we the consumer should pay extra to extend a warranty.

Extended warranties exists for the only purpose of bringing in extra revenue for retailers. A computer salesman doesn't sell computers, they sell warranties... very sad.

 

[3282868]

I understand that if the system doesn't boot it is difficult to determine whether it's the logic board or the built in GPU. Yet nVidia has stated many of the GPU's are defective, other companies such as HP, Dell, etc that use that particular chip have replaced it. Apple should have sent notices to customers whose MacBook Pro's may be effected by this defective GPU. NVidia should have covered the costs in replacing the parts, customers would be satisfied with a properly replaced, working part, and Apple would have been in the right.

Claiming the system does not boot and thus cannot determine the cause is disappointing. Open the system and check the hardware, or simply using logic in that these systems have a known issue with the GPU would have been prudent.

I'm certain Apple's arrogance agitated him; why accept another logic board with the same GPU that may be faulty? I wouldn't, especially as the system only has a 90 day guarantee then he is SOL. Apple was wrong in failing to immediately acknowledge the issue to those who may be effected. This happened to a friend who had a faulty MacBook Pro battery. He did not know it was faulty until it blew, and that was a month after the 2008 replacement deadline. This would have been avoided had Apple contacted owners, just as car manufacturers contact their owners when a faulty part needs replacing.

Taking Apple to court wasn't about the money, I believe it was about the principle in this matter.

 

[ikir]

3 years, Apple change the machine for free and you sue them? LOL

Sure they will give you 8600 again, but your laptop is 3 years old already, probably APple is the only one doing that and you sue them? OMG

the fact you spend a lot of money on that machine is because of tech spec not your dream of a computer with 0% chance of failure for 10 years.

 

[ShiftyPig]

In other news, using bold fonts and random underlining makes your point 20% more effective.

 

[walterwhite]

sent SO many of these for repair...

As a Lead Genius, my Techs and I sent these out daily for this issue. We even took care of ones that were a bit banged up, that would normally be out of warranty... we were taught to "Take care of the customer" and that seems to have changed... Too bad. Now I guess they can't even use CS codes. Not the Apple I used to know so well.

 

[3282868]

In other news, using bold fonts and random underlining makes your point 20% more effective.

Or maybe it's to allow people to skip to the parts that are important and not read the whole comment as some post "TL,DR". Thanks for the sarcastic, immature and worthless post.

 

[Nostromo]

Apple should put away with "Apple Care" completely and cover all their more expensive, "pro" level machines with a 3 year warranty as it's already standard in the industry.

But get this:

And because the customer ordered a MORE EXPENSIVE built to order machine FROM APPLE - the warranty doesn't cover it?

What kind of logic is that?

Apple, don't get arrogant on us. I don't want to worry when I spring big bucks on my next MacBook Pro that I could be left with a smoking wreck and a useless warranty.

Error is human, but it's also human to stand up for one's mistakes and fix construction errors.

Thumbs up to the courageous blogger who duked it out!

 

[arbymad]

Source?



Even Adobe have abandoned mobile flash. Besides flash is propitiatory, Apple have backed open web standards over it.



Its not so much a boycott of Blu Ray but an abandoning of physical media, lots of online stores you can purchase from

1Look in macsales.com and they explain the work around they have come up with. Just google IMac hard drive replacement. There is a cable with the temperature sensor you must have for the iMac hard drive. Why can't we just go down to the Best Buy and put one in? Just google 2011 iMac hard drive replacement and see what appears.

2 Im talking about the bigger war with flash. Mac by choosing not to send flash on their computers is what caused a lot of the trojan problem going around. Not all people who work on computers know what they are doing. Mac by fighting Adobe, helped hackers exploit the system.

3 A Blu Ray player is in every living room. If I get a disc for Christmas, it would be nice to play it on my computer. I don't think Apple want's you to download from elsewhere. With purchasing a premium product, I want it to do what I want it to do out of the box. Why limit your choices.

 

[3282868]

Apple should have sent notices to customers whose MacBook Pro's may be effected by this defective GPU. NVidia should have covered the costs in replacing the parts, customers would be satisfied with a properly replaced, working part, and Apple would have been in the right.

simply using logic in that these systems have a known issue with the GPU which is more than likely the cause, would have been prudent.

I'm certain the customer was agitated due to Apple's apparent arrogance; why would he accept another logic board with the same GPU that may be faulty? I wouldn't, especially as the system only has a 90 day guarantee, then he is SOL.
...
This would have been avoided had Apple contacted owners, just as car manufacturers contact their owners when a faulty part needs replacing.

Taking Apple to court wasn't about the money, I believe it was about the principle in this matter.

Excellent points sir!

In other news, using bold fonts and random underlining makes your point 20% more effective.

GROW UP

 

[kf90210]

I'm happy to hear this guy was able to settle and be reimbursed.

I have a late 2007 MacBook Pro 15" with the 8600GT video card, which I purchased in Jan. of 2008. The video card just died two months after the 4 year warranty had ended. I tried to consult a genius bar technician about the problem and they ran a diagnostic test which verified the issue, but refused to repair it. I even tried to talk to the manager who also declined. They didn't even quote me a repair cost for it, which I found odd. I tried going through some Apple people over the phone but they refused to replace the logic board as well.

It's really unfortunate that video card had to fail literally right after the warranty had ended. I took care of the laptop to the best of my ability by always preventing it from getting too hot. Not sure what else I could have done to avoid such an issue, which leads me to believe that it truly is a defective part destined to fail.

What irritates me is the fact that Apple has not issued a recall for this problem, and it's such a wide spread issue...

 

[cameronjpu]

My BTO MacBook Pro was covered for exactly this problem when the 8600M died. They replaced the logic board in less than 24 hours IIRC.

What is really strange is the contradiction in this article. Either:

1. He was prepared to accept a logic board failure and Apple didn't wouldn't (hence the surprise by him and the judge when they found out Nvidia pick up the tab)

-or-

2. He was refusing to let them replace the logic board as stated earlier in the article. Which is short-sighted of him as only certain batches of the GeForce 8600M were bad, not the entire design.

Finally the only people who will do will be well compensated in the class action lawsuit are the lawyers.

[)amien

I noticed that exact same thing! Considering how important it seemed to the crux of the story, the reason why he was so unhappy, it's pretty strange that he seemed to refuse a new logic board and demand a new logic board at the same time

 

[astronomic]

I had this exact same problem last year when my old MBP 15" started flaking out because of the Nvidia GPU bug. Luckily for me, I had two weeks left on my AppleCare warranty, and after 3x "repairs" from apple, I finally got in contact with someone at corporate through the BBB.

I was sent a brand new 17" MBP, because the current MBP models did not have an ExpressCard slot like my old one.

It sucks for this guy, but I was super happy with apple. I guess I lucked out still having a few weeks left on my warranty.

 

[JayLenochiniMac]

Why did Apple's lawyers waste their time with this guy? Just get him a new computer.

 

[techsmith]

My BTO MacBook Pro was covered for exactly
2. He was refusing to let them replace the logic board as stated earlier in the article. Which is short-sighted of him as only certain batches of the GeForce 8600M were bad, not the entire design.
[)amien

They were all bad. NVidia never offered a non-defective 8600M. They fixed it in the 9600M, which is not a drop-in replacement for the 8600M. That's why when HP lost a class action suit about this, they had to give everyone a completely different computer. I've had 4 replacement motherboards for my four year old Dell XPS1330 (8400M, same defect as the 8600M) and they just keep on putting in new defective motherboards every time it dies. I've tried getting a new machine out of them with a different card (which no doubt would be cheaper than sending a tech over to do the replacement every time) but they will not. When the warranty dies the computer dies (got 5 years worth of warranty, plus a bonus year if the cause of death is the video card, but I don't know if I will be able to prove that it is).

 

[Maven1975]

Good for you! Apple has been reluctant to help with my same issue and still owes me money on another issue.

 

[arbymad]

The flash issue is a mute point now as adobe has abandoned mobile flash production and update in the wave of HTML5 thus flash will be phased out of all products in the course of a few years.

Lots of the flash induced malware came with flash exploited on system. Apple at one time preloaded flash on your computer. When apple promotes how safe they are to the general public, a bunch of computer users are not prepared for the flash exploit. What may happen in the future, I do agree with you on HTML5, doesn't help me today.

 

[aarond12]

This story is questionable at best.

My friend Tony purchased a 17" MacBook Pro from eBay -- it was also a BTO model with the high-definition screen -- and when its display wouldn't work even with an external monitor, I checked the model. It was the model covered under the recall program and, upon taking it to a local Apple store, was repaired free of charge, even though he wasn't the original owner.

How come this guy had to go to court? Because he didn't want a repaired motherboard? Because he was being difficult with Apple personnel? This story just doesn't ring true in my mind.

 

[314631]

I have to side with Apple on this one. His laptop lasted a good few years and it was time for an upgrade imo. It's a pity Apple lost this case.

 

[Durendal]

So much crap from both sides on this. Apple handled it poorly, yes, but this guy has some bullcrap from his side, too.

Three years later, the board failed, and predictably, Apple refused to replace it. Instead, they used the fact that the machine wouldn’t boot (due to the failed logic board) to deny the repair. Not only that, but in addition, they tried to charge me a hefty sum of money to have it replaced, knowing full well that Nvidia pays for the full repair cost.

Utter crap. Apple runs a specific diagnostic to test for the Nvidia failure. Even if you get no video but starts up, it still runs from a thumbdrive and dumps a logfile to it, which you read to determine the results of the test. If the Macbook Pro doesn't POST, then you CANNOT TEST IT! Furthermore, you CANNOT definitively say that it was the Nvidia GPU! Any number of failures on the logic board can prevent booting. Oh, it was likely that it was the Nvidia GPU, sure, but you CANNOT know that, and if it wasn't the Nvidia GPU, then guess who foots the bill? Not Nvidia. Testing it would require shipping the board to a facility where the old one could be desoldered and a new one soldered on. Not exactly the kind of thing you can do at an Apple Store. Granted, it didn't help that Apple sent some very non-technical chunkheads who couldn't seem to explain that to the judge.

I proceeded to explain my displeasure with the “genius”, firmly, but politely. I explained, calmly, that a $4,500 laptop that fails in 3 years and 3 months is defective. Period.

I heard this idiocy a number of times when I used to fix Macs for a living. I wanted to shank them with a blackstick every time I heard it. GET OVER YOURSELF. Everything fails. Expensive things, cheap things, it all fails eventually. Sometimes it fails within a month. You could call that defective. Over three years? Um, no. There was a problem, but "defective" implies that there was a problem with it from the start. Not knowing for sure if this was the Nvidia GPU (as it wasn't even POSTing), there's no way of knowing if it was "defective" or failed due to any other potential means. The amount of money you spent on it has nothing to do with that.

Apple refused to replace my board because it would not boot, and it would not boot because the 8600M had failed.

Again, he has no possible way of knowing that. If it doesn't boot at all, then there's no way of knowing for sure if the problem is the Nvidia GPU.

I interjected and explained to the judge that if Apple replaced only the logic board, it would simply be another logic board with a defective GPU, therefore, such a solution would not be acceptable.

ABSOLUTE GARBAGE! This is a 100% LIE. Why in the HELL would Apple be handing out defective boards, especially if Nvidia was footing the bill for the defect? No. Once this issue was discovered, the boards were NOT replaced with defective ones. At worst, he would've received a refurbished board with a non-defective GPU in it. I don't know where he came up with this hairy load, but it's utterly wrong.

Apple's biggest mistake was sending the weenies they did. Sending in someone with more technical knowledge than this guy (who doesn't seem to know as much as he thinks) would've probably won them the small claims suit.

 

[fruitycups]

In a few days apple will give this guy a new macbook pro

 

[Cave Man]

More people suing Apple over silly things, what else is new???

You must be an Apple lawyer.

 

[dacapo]

The article should be emailed to tcook@apple.com

 

[justinnava]

This immediately caught my eye. I have been in this situation before...but with a better ending...

I have a 2008 macbook pro model that came with the defective graphics card. At the beginning of the year I came to my macbook and found it very hot to the touch, and it would no longer turn on. I took it to the Apple Genius Bar and the Genius told me that they could not verify it was the graphics card's fault and that I would need to pay $300 to get the logic board replaced. I asked politely if when they opened up the notebook if they could determine if it was the graphics card that cause the logic board to fry. The Genius told me possibly, but I would have to call the repair warehouse right when they got it, so I went ahead and sent it off for repair.

The computer arrived at the repair warehouse and was being fixed early the next morning before I could call and ask if it was indeed the graphics card. So the computer was repaired and shipped back to the Apple store and I was called saying it was ready for pickup. I asked if there was a cost for repair and I was told it was going to be $300. I then said that if it was the graphics card's fault I was told I didn't have to pay the repair bill. The employee on the phone placed me on hold and talked to his manager, and they agreed to give me the repair for free.

I've never had problems with Apple Customer Support or the Genius bar, so this article surprised me when I saw it. I guess I'm one of the lucky ones...