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As soon as any meaningful amount of people start doing it, internet providers will choke up and will have to start charging per GB.

That's common here in NZ, and I think it's even more prevalent in Australia (that or "you may download up to x GB then get slowed to 128 kb/s"). I pay about US$0.85/GB, and always have to take that into consideration when deciding whether to buy from iTunes or on DVD. Having a physical copy that I don't need to download usually wins out with me.
 
I could easily envision a scenario where you set 2-3 1080p movies to d/l at night, and then they're all done by morning. That's not really a problem, we have to get over our instant-gratification culture where *I NEED IT NOW*.

I know what you mean, but I already have something similar for Blu-ray discs, called Amazon Prime...

Blu-ray is a failure.

No it isn't. It's great.
 
Blu-ray is a failure.
no it's not. link, http://www.nytimes.com/2009/12/14/technology/14bluray.html?scp=1&sq=blue ray&st=cse

...
But this year, even as the country moves tentatively out of a recession, consumers are buying the devices at a faster pace than they bought previous generations of movie players like the VCR and the DVD player. Analysts predict that sales of Blu-ray machines will be up 112 percent over last year, one of the true bright spots in retailing this holiday season.


Blu-ray’s household penetration is higher than that of DVD for the same period after introduction, according to Shawn DuBravac, chief economist for the Consumer Electronics Association. Three years after introduction, Blu-ray stand-alone players, which excludes Sony’s PlayStation 3 game machines that also play Blu-rays discs, are in 7 percent of American homes.

Amazon.com reports that sales of Blu-ray players are outnumbering those of standard DVD units, according to Paul Ryder, the company’s vice president for consumer electronics. Among the top 10 disc players sold, eight were Blu-ray, and five of the top 10 movie titles sold were in the Blu-ray format....
i already have over 50 BD titles and counting. apple just release BD player already.
 
(since playback is a "bag of hurt" and there's not exactly a flood of data BD's out on the market).

jW

The playback isn't a band of hurt, it's the licensing. Recently the license costs dropped significantly, hopefully foretelling the coming of Blu to the mac.

I'm not holding my breath.
 
Sorry you've been misinformed. You are missing out on some spectacular discs.

[sarcasm]
Sorry your mistaken, Apples HD Movies are far far superior in every concievable way to BD[/sarcasm]

I am holding out on a PS3 in hopes that Apple will add BDROM playback support to the OS (I can buy an external drive...). At this rate I think it will be another year or two before Apple decides that we should get that ability. I wonder if it is due to the CABAC @ 1080p being super hard to decode and most of Apples hardware base doesn't have the GPU power needed to make it worthwhile.

I wonder if anyone (other than Apple) tracks what hardware is most commonly in use, that would be of great help in figuring out around when Apple would feel confident enough in adding BDROM playback via GPU decode (cause face it using the CPU to decode a 1080p CABAC stream is silly).
 
It's too late at night to be reading an entire 17 page thread so forgive me if this has already been discussed, but I'd love to be able to have Blu-Ray support and bundled drives just so I can do some 30GB+ data backups. Backing up data to dual layered DVDs just isn't feasible any more, and I don't trust hard drives.
 
It's too late at night to be reading an entire 17 page thread so forgive me if this has already been discussed, but I'd love to be able to have Blu-Ray support and bundled drives just so I can do some 30GB+ data backups. Backing up data to dual layered DVDs just isn't feasible any more, and I don't trust hard drives.

I think you just want bundled drives so you don't have to use an external one for burning your DL discs.
 
Gimme!

I do HD video as a hobby/for friends/coworkers/events etc. I'm by no means anywhere near being a professional camera man or editor, but I've moved beyond IMovie awhile ago (N.B. - IMovie is not bad by all means, I just needed more from NLEs). There are thousands of people like me. Having exported a few finished projects done in 720/1080p 5D Mk2/GH1 into DVD format I realized that in the very near future I'll need to give people physical medium and it cannot be DVDs. There is an option of writing Bluray content onto DL DVDs but some older Bluray players don't support that. I do most of my day work (the one that earns me money) on a Macbook. I had to reluctantly move to Windows for my video editing needs because I cannot accomplish what I need to do on a Mac. Moreover, I would like to purchase a new 17 incher Macbook in the next few months, but without at Bluray writer (even an external one) I cannot commit to that. Once again, I'm not a video professional but if this Bluray situation gives pause to someone like me I can't imagine what a Pro must be thinking. Someone who is more experienced might want to weigh in.
 
[sarcasm]
Sorry your mistaken, Apples HD Movies are far far superior in every concievable way to BD[/sarcasm]

I am holding out on a PS3 in hopes that Apple will add BDROM playback support to the OS (I can buy an external drive...). At this rate I think it will be another year or two before Apple decides that we should get that ability. I wonder if it is due to the CABAC @ 1080p being super hard to decode and most of Apples hardware base doesn't have the GPU power needed to make it worthwhile.

I wonder if anyone (other than Apple) tracks what hardware is most commonly in use, that would be of great help in figuring out around when Apple would feel confident enough in adding BDROM playback via GPU decode (cause face it using the CPU to decode a 1080p CABAC stream is silly).

my two year old HP laptop has a BD option and it has an ATI HD2600 graphics. cyberlink system requirements for it's software blu-ray player are almost everything made in the last 3 years
 
My craptastic 1.2MB/s connection will bite the dust while downloading HD 1080p movies.

No freakin cable broadband here, the fastest we get is a 7.2MB/s HSDPA connection and the fastest ADSL is 4MB/s.
 
Blu-ray a failure? Surely you jest, especially now with good quality Profile 2.0-compliant players now selling under US$200. Did I miss something important? :rolleyes:

Besides, Apple hardware, like I said earlier, is effectively compliant with Blu-ray specifications anyway, including the Mini DisplayPort connection. Apple just needs to add a BD-RE drive and include extensions to MacOS X 10.6, iTunes, iMovie and Final Cut Studio to turn a higher-end iMac or Mac Pro into a Blu-ray mastering station. :)
 
Blu-ray is a failure.
No, its not.

Currently, there's not enough ISP bandwidth available to consumers capable of handling 1080p content. The files are too big, and the band too little, and it's goint to be some time before that changes. Even then, there's the posibility that the ISP's will cap the data, making BRD more attractive, as there's no need to download. Ever.

The fact that 1080p sets are gaining enough market share doesn't hurt either. ;) The desire for BluRay (or 1080p resolution in general) will then increase. Get the pricing low enough, and it will gain serious traction, which is occuring now.

BluRay is currently the only way to get 1080p material, and with the cost of the players and movies getting lower, is becoming more attractive. People are buying it as a result, and there's been enough evidence linked to support that.

In particular, the DVD + BluRay combo packs are a good way to push adoption, as they can buy now (DVD the only player on hand), and have the BRD when they do purchase one. Add it all up, and the pieces are fitting = increased sales.
 
my two year old HP laptop has a BD option and it has an ATI HD2600 graphics. cyberlink system requirements for it's software blu-ray player are almost everything made in the last 3 years

True, but it could be possible that Apple sold more Macbooks with X3100/GMA graphics than they did 9400/8x00 graphics during that same period. The Intel parts can't decode h.264 as well as the nvidia (and ATI) parts.
 
it's probably something in the hardware and the drivers

for Windows you buy a blu-ray drive and a software player like Cyberlink. you also need the minimum video drivers as specified by Cyberlink because the DRM is in the drivers. you can play blu-ray on XP if you wanted to. the drivers will make sure your display is HDCP compatible or whatever it's called

Apple likes to control the hardware where they give you driver updates and nvidia/ATI will need Apple support to code blu-ray compatible drivers. no apple support, no drivers

personally i don't care if there is no blu-ray in my computer, that's what the TV is for
 
That's common here in NZ, and I think it's even more prevalent in Australia (that or "you may download up to x GB then get slowed to 128 kb/s"). I pay about US$0.85/GB, and always have to take that into consideration when deciding whether to buy from iTunes or on DVD. Having a physical copy that I don't need to download usually wins out with me.
in australia we get capped back to 64kb/s (i.e. 8KB/s!) for both uploads and downloads. this is after 25GB of download usage. $100 a month :mad:

on some specific plans you can be paying up to $100 per GB once you go over your limits.

[sarcasm]
Sorry your mistaken, Apples HD Movies are far far superior in every concievable way to BD[/sarcasm]
the source of apples HD rips are higher then if one was to rip directly from a BD disc, but the lower bitrate then makes them look far worse then a BD disc - of course it would! you cant fit much into ~2000kbps.

I wonder if it is due to the CABAC @ 1080p being super hard to decode and most of Apples hardware base doesn't have the GPU power needed to make it worthwhile.
i believe all current and most recent GPUs by apple qualify to decode full HD (i.e. they support NVIDIAs PureVideo or the like) - hell even the :apple:TV's GPU can decode full HD video! (apple just hasnt let it).

No, its not.

Currently, there's not enough ISP bandwidth available to consumers capable of handling 1080p content. The files are too big, and the band too little, and it's goint to be some time before that changes. Even then, there's the posibility that the ISP's will cap the data, making BRD more attractive, as there's no need to download. Ever.
its COMPLETELY unfeasible in australia. even a compressed BD movie takes up more then half my monthly downloads. tbh i NEVER see BD streaming/downloads happening in australia without paying big bucks for them (>$200 a month). we can download movies from services given out via our ISP with no charge on "downloads", they cost around $5 i think but are only SD (yuk).

The fact that 1080p sets are gaining enough market share doesn't hurt either. ;) The desire for BluRay (or 1080p resolution in general) will then increase. Get the pricing low enough, and it will gain serious traction, which is occuring now.
prices are finally starting to fall for BD, new releases of DVD + BD usually have identical prices over here :D yay! all we have to do is get the cost of a BD below $300! :mad:

BluRay is currently the only way to get 1080p material, and with the cost of the players and movies getting lower, is becoming more attractive. People are buying it as a result, and there's been enough evidence linked to support that.
TVs prices are dropping too! i only hope that higher res TVs dont start coming out soon, i watched a 1080p rip on my i7 imac the other day, it didnt look so good! :eek:

In particular, the DVD + BluRay combo packs are a good way to push adoption, as they can buy now (DVD the only player on hand), and have the BRD when they do purchase one. Add it all up, and the pieces are fitting = increased sales.
i like your thinking!

it's probably something in the hardware and the drivers
its all in the software (drivers). the current apple hardware can most certainly decode all HD movie requirements (9400 can too!).
 
in australia we get capped back to 64kb/s (i.e. 8KB/s!) for both uploads and downloads. this is after 25GB of download usage. $100 a month :mad:

on some specific plans you can be paying up to $100 per GB once you go over your limits.
YIKES!!! That's just insane!

its COMPLETELY unfeasible in australia. even a compressed BD movie takes up more then half my monthly downloads. tbh i NEVER see BD streaming/downloads happening in australia without paying big bucks for them (>$200 a month). we can download movies from services given out via our ISP with no charge on "downloads", they cost around $5 i think but are only SD (yuk).
It's unfeasable in most parts of the world, and even in Asia for example where much faster bandwidth is possible to consumers, it's not inexpensive, from what Tesselator pays for it.

prices are finally starting to fall for BD, new releases of DVD + BD usually have identical prices over here :D yay! all we have to do is get the cost of a BD below $300! :mad:
Maybe they've not yet imported the newer, lower cost players yet. :confused: $300AUD is a tad expensive, and given the current conversion rate, it's close to USD ($267USD).

That's still high, and BRD players were slower to adopt at those prices here in the US as well. It was slowly picking up, but with the price reductions, it's helped substantially from what I can tell. Now that doesn't mean price was the only factor, as the HDTV sales have been improving it's marketshare as well, and is a driving factor.

But most will be more willing to pay less when it happens. There's even a beyond basic model that's under $100USD (Magnavox IIRC for $78 from WalMart). I wouldn't expect much in terms of build quality, but the price is sure to attract buyers on tight budgets or those who only look at the $ amounts.

its all in the software (drivers). the current apple hardware can most certainly decode all HD movie requirements (9400 can too!).
Not exactly. All the necessary hardware has to be HDCP compliant (BDP, GPU, and monitor) and will vary from system to system. The hardware's slowly been changed to HDCP compliant parts, but for example, a current MP used with an older ACD monitor won't work, because the monitor lacks the compliance.

So there's a little more than just drivers (and from Apple's POV, licensing).
 
YIKES!!! That's just insane!
prices are likely to go up after our government implements the "australia wide" internet upgrade. they are estimating $200 for the basic plans once 80% of current ADSL users make the switch.


It's unfeasable in most parts of the world, and even in Asia for example where much faster bandwidth is possible to consumers, it's not inexpensive, from what Tesselator pays for it.
i hear they get free wifi over there!!! :eek::rolleyes:

but yea, even over in asia they would struggle with millions of people downloading those file sizes.


Maybe they've not yet imported the newer, lower cost players yet. :confused: $300AUD is a tad expensive, and given the current conversion rate, it's close to USD ($267USD).
im not certain on the player versions that we are selling. i would have to check if they are 2.0. we are always more expensive over here though.

That's still high, and BRD players were slower to adopt at those prices here in the US as well. It was slowly picking up, but with the price reductions, it's helped substantially from what I can tell. Now that doesn't mean price was the only factor, as the HDTV sales have been improving it's marketshare as well, and is a driving factor.
yup TV sales/prices would have been a major player in the sale of BD players. on some TVs the retailers were giving away free BD players! getting pretty desperate haha.

[But most will be more willing to pay less when it happens. There's even a beyond basic model that's under $100USD (Magnavox IIRC for $78 from WalMart). I wouldn't expect much in terms of build quality, but the price is sure to attract buyers on tight budgets or those who only look at the $ amounts.
wow! thats insane! i think thats why prices are so high over here though, we do not have the "basic" players, we mainly see the higher quality Sony/Pioneer etc.


Not exactly. All the necessary hardware has to be HDCP compliant (BDP, GPU, and monitor) and will vary from system to system. The hardware's slowly been changed to HDCP compliant parts, but for example, a current MP used with an older ACD monitor won't work, because the monitor lacks the compliance.
which i believe is totally stupid. if a monitor is capable of displaying the picture (min of 1080p) then why should they be disadvantages because of it? sure make the GPU/BD player etc HDCP, but not the monitor!

So there's a little more than just drivers (and from Apple's POV, licensing).
i believe apple could sort out the licensing in a matter of minutes if they wanted to! they probably dont want sales interfering with their itunes store sales.
 
prices are likely to go up after our government implements the "australia wide" internet upgrade. they are estimating $200 for the basic plans once 80% of current ADSL users make the switch.
I wasn't aware anything like this was to happen. But there's the possibilty of some benefits though, assuming they've designed the system that way (and will follow through). Uniformity and hopefully increased bandwidth come to mind, and hopefully, an end to the caps.

Can you ellaborate?

but yea, even over in asia they would struggle with millions of people downloading those file sizes.
I'd think any system in any country would as they exist now. Infrastructure growth is notoriously slow in most parts of the world.

Even with compression, 1080p would bring 80Gb/s to it's knees in a hurry and scream for mercy in the form of buffering. Then there's the possibility of data caps and the related issues/fees for users willing to attempt it.

yup TV sales/prices would have been a major player in the sale of BD players. on some TVs the retailers were giving away free BD players! getting pretty desperate haha.
Not desparate, smart. ;)

The free player can help generate HDTV sales. That combination would also help movie studios by giving them a larger potential market to make sales (remember, studios are on the BR specification board along with hardware makers). Lowering the cost of BR movies will help this, as does the DVD+BR combo packs (genius for the "switcher"). As it happens, the BR media has come down in price to near parity with DVD media. :eek: So the excuse that the media is more expensive doesn't fly anymore. :D

All involved will end up with more sales as a result. So it's actually quite brilliant. :D

wow! thats insane! i think thats why prices are so high over here though, we do not have the "basic" players, we mainly see the higher quality Sony/Pioneer etc.
I figured it might still be the older, expensive models. They cost more to produce (given the components used on the boards), and the prices can only go down so far without a loss. If I had to guess, the new players won't be available until the current stocks dwindle to nearly nothing remaining. No one wants to eat the loss at selling them under wholesale, let alone manufacturing costs. So it may be awhile before less expensive players show up there. :(

which i believe is totally stupid. if a monitor is capable of displaying the picture (min of 1080p) then why should they be disadvantages because of it? sure make the GPU/BD player etc HDCP, but not the monitor!
It would have depended on what their position was at the time the product was designed (= NO BluRay support due to licensing at the time).

Parts (electronic components = capacitors, resistors, chips,...) are ordered in advance once the design has obtained RTM status (supplies are scheduled over time known as Just In Time Scheduling). It's possible that they could change a non-HDCP part out for one that is, but there's a strong chance that you'd lose money on the component part contract with the supplier of the orginal component used. Unless that contract is completed. This isn't impossible, but it's not that common with semiconductors (chips) as it would be with resistors for example. Designs tend to revolve around the semi's used, not the passives (resistors, capacitors).

i believe apple could sort out the licensing in a matter of minutes if they wanted to! they probably dont want sales interfering with their itunes store sales.
That's part of it IMO. Apple doesn't like not having control either, and Sony controls BluRay.
 
prices are finally starting to fall for BD, new releases of DVD + BD usually have identical prices over here :D yay! all we have to do is get the cost of a BD below $300! :mad:

I assume that you mean $300 AUD... Profile 2 players are far below that in US$.
 

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I assume that you mean $300 AUD... Profile 2 players are far below that in US$.
$300AUD ~= $267USD at the moment (using Xe.com for the conversion). So they're still pricey in Australia compared to the US. What I don't know, is the specific models to find out if they're Profile 2 or not. But I'm guessing they're Profile 1 units that haven't sold, and have been warehoused somewhere (could be Australia or Asia).
 
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