Rendezvous was a trademark of a company called Tibco, they settled out of court and part of the deal was obviously that Apple would change the name.hob said:
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Bonjour for Windows
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wth...
I don't understand why Apple would make something like this then just port it to windows.... I mean isn't windows server kinda a competing product to OS X server?? Just because M$ doesn't know what 'making things easy' means doesn't mean that Apple needs to help them with it.
I don't understand why Apple would make something like this then just port it to windows.... I mean isn't windows server kinda a competing product to OS X server?? Just because M$ doesn't know what 'making things easy' means doesn't mean that Apple needs to help them with it.
poundsmack
macrumors 6502
I really hate standing up for MS but this is one of the few cases I will say something nice on there behalf. windows server 2003 was done very very well. microsoft knows what theya re doing in that department. in amost all other departments.....well......lets just say they are gona be playing catch up for a while. but I really dont think OSX is quite server ready *yet* Tiger brought them a lot closer though. there are a few things MS has done right over the years. they make a damn good IDE, they do a pretty darn good job on there server os, and they made Paint. I love ms paint lol. I am gona get so flamed for this post.....oh well....let the flaming begin 🙄
Bonjour for Win is great, but doesn't work
Great concept. I am sure Apple has an alterior motive for releasing Bonjour for Windows, and I like that.
But, when I loaded it onto a Dell PC with WinXP pro, the installer twice blew up and reported that it could not find an appropriate .dll on the PC. Soooooo typical of my PC experience. Who's at fault here, Windows or Apple? 🙁
Great concept. I am sure Apple has an alterior motive for releasing Bonjour for Windows, and I like that.
But, when I loaded it onto a Dell PC with WinXP pro, the installer twice blew up and reported that it could not find an appropriate .dll on the PC. Soooooo typical of my PC experience. Who's at fault here, Windows or Apple? 🙁
Maxiseller
macrumors 6502a
I really think that this is a great move by Apple.
I mean, it shows XP up doesn't it?
But even though the technology isn't "on display" it could make Apple's lives a lot easier to integrate with Windows in the future. I mean, we all know that Windows isn't going anywhere for a considerable number of years - bt Apple is sure as hell taking the right, very small steps to not having to have any Microsoft dependance. As soon as iWork has a spreadsheet app, I'm getting rid of Microsoft for good.
When I first switched, I was a little overwhelmed by everything NOT being Microsoft. Now though, its so liberating. I'm using packages downloaded, purchased and have more productivity than ever before. Three cheers apple!
I mean, it shows XP up doesn't it?
But even though the technology isn't "on display" it could make Apple's lives a lot easier to integrate with Windows in the future. I mean, we all know that Windows isn't going anywhere for a considerable number of years - bt Apple is sure as hell taking the right, very small steps to not having to have any Microsoft dependance. As soon as iWork has a spreadsheet app, I'm getting rid of Microsoft for good.
When I first switched, I was a little overwhelmed by everything NOT being Microsoft. Now though, its so liberating. I'm using packages downloaded, purchased and have more productivity than ever before. Three cheers apple!
NightFox
macrumors 68040
Although others have said it is in this thread, I think the reaon Apple have released this is obvious - who is even going to consider adding a Mac to a Windows network if they're then going to have to spend hours and hours getting the things talking? Remove that obstacle, and you'll get lots more of "experimenters".
However, all that being said, not so sure I fully understand if this is a useful product for me. I have a Windows XP workgroup-based wireless network at home, on which sits my Mac Mini. I have an Espon R800 connected via USB directly to one of the PCs, and this is set as "shared". When I run Bonjour on this PC, it does not detect any printers. Should it be detecting this Epson, or will it only detect printers with their own network server?
I have tried using the printer from my Mac without using Bonjour or Rendezvous, just using Windows Printing on my Mac, but their doesn't seem to be an appropriate driver on the Mac so I either get no printing or garbage.
Anyone offer any help?
Thanks
However, all that being said, not so sure I fully understand if this is a useful product for me. I have a Windows XP workgroup-based wireless network at home, on which sits my Mac Mini. I have an Espon R800 connected via USB directly to one of the PCs, and this is set as "shared". When I run Bonjour on this PC, it does not detect any printers. Should it be detecting this Epson, or will it only detect printers with their own network server?
I have tried using the printer from my Mac without using Bonjour or Rendezvous, just using Windows Printing on my Mac, but their doesn't seem to be an appropriate driver on the Mac so I either get no printing or garbage.
Anyone offer any help?
Thanks
SiliconAddict said:
Trillian (FREE) is cumbersome, f'ugly (most of the themes are as bad as WinAMP themes IMHO), bloated, and annoying with it's oddball (to say the least) interface conventions like containers and other crap. Miranda is much better if you want a multi-chat messenger on Windows. Remember... iChat... would likely be free. Comparing Trillian's free version to the iChat free version is no contest... iChat kills it. The pay version of Trillian is supposedly better... but once again, you are "PAYING" for it. Netscape was a "pay product" for years and even though IE was originally much worse than Netscape... guess which one won?
Miranda might be more in contention because it is free, does what Trillian/AdiumX does (multiple chats other than just Jabber + AIM), and doesn't suck in terms of interface design compared to the free Trillian version. Then again... few out there really know about Miranda and Apple is a higher profile company, not an open-source product made by Keebler Elves in a Hollow Tree. Which begs the question... If their tree falls in the forest... will anyone really hear it?
Anyone consider that since Bonjour for Windows wasn't released officially to the mass public very long ago as a 1.0 release, and the fact that there is an SDK, that many of the functionalities capable off of Bonjour with regard to printing aren't totally available until said companies release Bonjour-capable drivers? I think Bonjour is one of them products that many printer vendors producing wireless capable printers (and perhaps networking vendors, software vendors that use network-based tech, etc.) will clamor for, and the more prevalent it becomes (I'm sure Apple won't even mind if printer companies bundle it on CD with their units as a required install, saves them software development and plays nice with Macs for networking which is a coup for Apple), the quicker it becomes... a standard. 😉 At which point, Apple can piggyback technologies on top of it for other software apps up their sleeves that further push the Apple mindshare into the Microsoft market.
As far as iDVD and other iApps. Outside of iChat I don't think Apple will release much of anything else that they currently offer. I can see iChat because it's a very elegant chat program that's not buggy, and isn't riddled with banner ads or a nasty interface. It just works. That's a political coup for Apple. With regards to the iApps... if Apple releases them for Windows, they cast out much of the potential argument for buying a Mac mini and networking it to your Windows PC via Bonjour to try it out. Why do it if the apps. that make the Mac more enjoyable/valuable are available for PC too? I can see releasing them individually for sale to Windows users, but I doubt many would opt-in when preexisting packages are available already. If Apple won't even work out licensing of iDVD to external DVD burner drive manufacturers, or create an SDK for driver support for said units... I doubt you'll see it available on Windows.
Bonjour isn't a hardcore networking piece of software for businesses (at least not yet, releasing it with an SDK opens some potentials) but... it is a very simple and easy to install networking software for your average computer user who could be a potential switcher that wants to network their Mac and PC's together in an easy way without the frustrations of having to manually set up the network. Apple can argue that the Mac is a personal server. They can argue that it's a digital hub for doing basic photo editing with iPhoto, or for creating musical scores with Garageband, or burning family movies to DVD to share with iDVD. If Apple can make this end of the user experience seamless (Mac<->PC networking)... then they are creating more mindshare for Apple as a brand which translates into the potential for an outright "conversion" rather than a strictly platform agnostic environment. As others have noted... it's another Trojan horse of sorts. Except in a verrrrrrrrrrrry good way.
Just an idea.
As far as the person talking about Cocoa apps. never appearing on Windows.
Are you mad?
NeXT Openstep had a set of API's which evolved into what Cocoa is today, much as Openstep became Rhapsody which evolved into OS X out of need/requirement. At one point, NeXT released these API's as an install on Windows machines... so that NeXT applications like OmniWeb and the like were available for installation on Windows. They looked and behaved like a Windows application, but were merely a recompiled Openstep application. The fact is... it has been done.
The other fact of the matter is... a movement to x86-only would still be a painful move as a lot of people realistically don't go out and buy every piece of software new everytime a new OS version and version of said software comes out. Imagine deciding to upgrade to a new x86 powered Mac? Existing applications would have to run in emulation (and be painfully slow as I'll address later). If people have to upgrade their "useful" applications at point of purchase to make the new hardware usable... a lot of end-users would hold out for awhile til the applications were all ported, 'til they have all of the $ to buy everything in one lump sum (so Apple loses sales nearterm that could damage the companies quarterly profits and devalue the company), and many people would likely wait 1 or 2 generations of updates to said apps. and hardware at the very least to make sure Apple and the various companies get things running smoothly. It took Apple long enough to build a head of steam and turn OS X from slowish to reasonably quick and usable. To go through that again? Echhhh... no thanks. I'll sacrifice some speed at the top end if required rather than go through another monumental transition at this juncture. Which would happen.
Beyond those points... the performance gains are minimal between the 2 at this juncture. The reason the CISC Motorola 68k processor to PowerPC 601/603/604 worked was because the PowerPC processors were much faster than the last used Motorola 68k chips in Macs (68040, the Macs never used the 68060). So the Mac could emulate a 68k Mac and it's software at about 1/2-2/3 as fast as it runs native applications. Emulating a PowerPC on x86... would be excruciatingly painful and slow, especially since Mac OS X is a much more processor consuming OS than System 7/7.5 was. It'd be like trying to run Tiger or Panther out of an older G3 or 604e in terms of performance. Considering that most software vendors just made the move to OS X... another change right now would be a significantly bad idea. Down the road perhaps... but at that point, IBM would have to fall so significantly far behind Intel and AMD to make it worthwhile. I don't ever foresee that happening with all of the technologies that IBM has pioneered and patented that have been licensed by the other 2.
You'll see Apple move to a derivative of IBM's Power# series or a more robust server/workstation version of IBM's/Sony's/Toshiba's Cell chip (itself PowerPC based, and I wouldn't be surprised if the PowerPC <-> Cell eventually become interchangeable in regards to terminology) before you see them on x86. I'm pretty confident in that regard.
As far as iDVD and other iApps. Outside of iChat I don't think Apple will release much of anything else that they currently offer. I can see iChat because it's a very elegant chat program that's not buggy, and isn't riddled with banner ads or a nasty interface. It just works. That's a political coup for Apple. With regards to the iApps... if Apple releases them for Windows, they cast out much of the potential argument for buying a Mac mini and networking it to your Windows PC via Bonjour to try it out. Why do it if the apps. that make the Mac more enjoyable/valuable are available for PC too? I can see releasing them individually for sale to Windows users, but I doubt many would opt-in when preexisting packages are available already. If Apple won't even work out licensing of iDVD to external DVD burner drive manufacturers, or create an SDK for driver support for said units... I doubt you'll see it available on Windows.
Bonjour isn't a hardcore networking piece of software for businesses (at least not yet, releasing it with an SDK opens some potentials) but... it is a very simple and easy to install networking software for your average computer user who could be a potential switcher that wants to network their Mac and PC's together in an easy way without the frustrations of having to manually set up the network. Apple can argue that the Mac is a personal server. They can argue that it's a digital hub for doing basic photo editing with iPhoto, or for creating musical scores with Garageband, or burning family movies to DVD to share with iDVD. If Apple can make this end of the user experience seamless (Mac<->PC networking)... then they are creating more mindshare for Apple as a brand which translates into the potential for an outright "conversion" rather than a strictly platform agnostic environment. As others have noted... it's another Trojan horse of sorts. Except in a verrrrrrrrrrrry good way.
Just an idea.
As far as the person talking about Cocoa apps. never appearing on Windows.
Are you mad?
NeXT Openstep had a set of API's which evolved into what Cocoa is today, much as Openstep became Rhapsody which evolved into OS X out of need/requirement. At one point, NeXT released these API's as an install on Windows machines... so that NeXT applications like OmniWeb and the like were available for installation on Windows. They looked and behaved like a Windows application, but were merely a recompiled Openstep application. The fact is... it has been done.
The other fact of the matter is... a movement to x86-only would still be a painful move as a lot of people realistically don't go out and buy every piece of software new everytime a new OS version and version of said software comes out. Imagine deciding to upgrade to a new x86 powered Mac? Existing applications would have to run in emulation (and be painfully slow as I'll address later). If people have to upgrade their "useful" applications at point of purchase to make the new hardware usable... a lot of end-users would hold out for awhile til the applications were all ported, 'til they have all of the $ to buy everything in one lump sum (so Apple loses sales nearterm that could damage the companies quarterly profits and devalue the company), and many people would likely wait 1 or 2 generations of updates to said apps. and hardware at the very least to make sure Apple and the various companies get things running smoothly. It took Apple long enough to build a head of steam and turn OS X from slowish to reasonably quick and usable. To go through that again? Echhhh... no thanks. I'll sacrifice some speed at the top end if required rather than go through another monumental transition at this juncture. Which would happen.
Beyond those points... the performance gains are minimal between the 2 at this juncture. The reason the CISC Motorola 68k processor to PowerPC 601/603/604 worked was because the PowerPC processors were much faster than the last used Motorola 68k chips in Macs (68040, the Macs never used the 68060). So the Mac could emulate a 68k Mac and it's software at about 1/2-2/3 as fast as it runs native applications. Emulating a PowerPC on x86... would be excruciatingly painful and slow, especially since Mac OS X is a much more processor consuming OS than System 7/7.5 was. It'd be like trying to run Tiger or Panther out of an older G3 or 604e in terms of performance. Considering that most software vendors just made the move to OS X... another change right now would be a significantly bad idea. Down the road perhaps... but at that point, IBM would have to fall so significantly far behind Intel and AMD to make it worthwhile. I don't ever foresee that happening with all of the technologies that IBM has pioneered and patented that have been licensed by the other 2.
You'll see Apple move to a derivative of IBM's Power# series or a more robust server/workstation version of IBM's/Sony's/Toshiba's Cell chip (itself PowerPC based, and I wouldn't be surprised if the PowerPC <-> Cell eventually become interchangeable in regards to terminology) before you see them on x86. I'm pretty confident in that regard.
iChat for Windows (Bonjour only)
For those of you that have a windows machine and want to communicate to your Mac's using Bonjour (local network only) Here's a link to a iChat for Windows application: http://xurble.org/projects/2005/04/rendezvous-protocol-for-miranda.html
For those of you that have a windows machine and want to communicate to your Mac's using Bonjour (local network only) Here's a link to a iChat for Windows application: http://xurble.org/projects/2005/04/rendezvous-protocol-for-miranda.html