Bootcamping Windows to Mac Pro 5.1 w/ GTX 680

[jacobbriggs29]

Hello!

I've recently got a Mac Pro 4.1->5.1 3.33GHz Intel Xeon, 32 GB, 256GB SSD, 2TB HDD and GTX 680 GPU.

I do a lot of Music Production so dual booting Windows and Mac is always helpful! I'm just wondering whether its advice on such systems? I've had a look already for previous forum post but I can't really find the answer I'm after!

Thank you and any help is valued!! - Jacob

 

[ActionableMango]

Hello!

I've recently got a Mac Pro 4.1->5.1 3.33GHz Intel Xeon, 32 GB, 256GB SSD, 2TB HDD and GTX 680 GPU.

I do a lot of Music Production so dual booting Windows and Mac is always helpful! I'm just wondering whether its advice on such systems? I've had a look already for previous forum post but I can't really find the answer I'm after!

Thank you and any help is valued!! - Jacob

Yes, bootcamping is fine.

The only red flag I see is that the combination of Windows 10 specifically installed as EFI combined with a GTX 680 with a Mac EFI leads to a very long boot time. So avoid that particular combination--I'd just install Windows 10 in BIOS mode.

 

[jacobbriggs29]

Yes, bootcamping is fine.

The only red flag I see is that the combination of Windows 10 specifically installed as EFI combined with a GTX 680 with a Mac EFI leads to a very long boot time. So avoid that particular combination--I'd just installed Windows 10 in BIOS mode.

Thanks for the help!

So I'd just go about it as usual through the Bootcamp tool on Mac OS? - J

 

[JedNZ]

I had an awful time getting Win8 installed on my cMP 1,1>2,1, but then found an install DVD that would boot and installed it in BIOS mode on a HDD. I then installed BC using some magic (can't remember where I got the instructions) and everything worked perfectly. I was even able to upgrade it to Win10.

Since then I've moved to a cMP 4,1>5,1 and plugged the Win10 HDD into it. I've since cloned my Win10 HDD to a SSD using Paragon's Hard Disk Manager (it was the only way I found to clone a Windows partition successfully - it's a great app, and NO I'm not being paid to say so) which copies both the EFI partition as well as the Win10 OS partition to another volume.

 

[jacobbriggs29]

I had an awful time getting Win8 installed on my cMP 1,1>2,1, but then found an install DVD that would boot and installed it in BIOS mode on a HDD. I then installed BC using some magic (can't remember where I got the instructions) and everything worked perfectly. I was even able to upgrade it to Win10.

Since then I've moved to a cMP 4,1>5,1 and plugged the Win10 HDD into it. I've since cloned my Win10 HDD to a SSD using Paragon's Hard Disk Manager (it was the only way I found to clone a Windows partition successfully - it's a great app, and NO I'm not being paid to say so) which copies both the EFI partition as well as the Win10 OS partition to another volume.

Ah Thanks! I'm just downloading the Windows 10 ISO now and sorting the Bootcamp drivers out. Would you suggest its fine to follow it through with the bootcamp app on MacOS?

 

[ActionableMango]

Thanks for the help!

So I'd just go about it as usual through the Bootcamp tool on Mac OS? - J

I've not used Bootcamp Assistant. I just installed directly from the Windows media onto its own dedicated drive. I do suggest removing the OS X drive prior to installing OS X.

 

[jacobbriggs29]

Okay, I'm now thinking about buying another SSD, installing and booting Windows onto that.

I'm not great at these kind of things so how easy is it to boot Windows onto a clean, new SSD?

Thanks again! - J

 

[ActionableMango]

Okay, I'm now thinking about buying another SSD, installing and booting Windows onto that.

I'm not great at these kind of things so how easy is it to boot Windows onto a clean, new SSD?

Thanks again! - J

Rough steps for what I did:

• Pull out all drives except the drive you intend to install Windows on. This is not strictly necessary, but it avoids some potential problems and accidents.
• Turn on computer and boot to Windows disc. (Don't use the USB installer.)
• Install as normal.
• After installation, in Windows, download and install boot camp drivers.
• Download and install video card drivers from the mfr, and any other third party drivers you need (like Logitech mouse, etc).
• Turn off, add all the other drives back.

If you switch between operating systems a lot, I suggest installing rEFInd at some point after everything is working.

 

[jacobbriggs29]

Rough steps for what I did:

• Pull out all drives except the drive you intend to install Windows on. This is not strictly necessary, but it avoids some potential problems and accidents.
• Turn on computer and boot to Windows disc. (Don't use the USB installer.)
• Install as normal.
• After installation, in Windows, download and install boot camp drivers.
• Download and install video card drivers from the mfr, and any other third party drivers you need (like Logitech mouse, etc).
• Turn off, add all the other drives back.

If you switch between operating systems a lot, I suggest installing rEFInd at some point after everything is working.

That was extremely helpful! I will save that reply and use as instructions when I come to it! Thank you! - Jacob
[doublepost=1483652696][/doublepost]

Rough steps for what I did:

• Pull out all drives except the drive you intend to install Windows on. This is not strictly necessary, but it avoids some potential problems and accidents.
• Turn on computer and boot to Windows disc. (Don't use the USB installer.)
• Install as normal.
• After installation, in Windows, download and install boot camp drivers.
• Download and install video card drivers from the mfr, and any other third party drivers you need (like Logitech mouse, etc).
• Turn off, add all the other drives back.

If you switch between operating systems a lot, I suggest installing rEFInd at some point after everything is working.

Sorry just one more question! Which edition of Windows did you use? - J

 

[ActionableMango]

That was extremely helpful! I will save that reply and use as instructions when I come to it! Thank you! - Jacob
[doublepost=1483652696][/doublepost]

Sorry just one more question! Which edition of Windows did you use? - J

I've done 7 pro, 8.1 pro, and now 10 pro.

 

[Squuiid]

Yes, bootcamping is fine.

The only red flag I see is that the combination of Windows 10 specifically installed as EFI combined with a GTX 680 with a Mac EFI leads to a very long boot time. So avoid that particular combination--I'd just install Windows 10 in BIOS mode.

I've done a lot of testing around this.

BIOS mode will result in very slow SSD performance with high CPU usage as the drive controller will be ATA mode. AHCI is not available on the Mac Pro when Windows is installed in BIOS mode.

If you have a Samsung XP941 SSD and a GTX 680ME you must use BIOS mode otherwise you will get no image on screen once you've installed the NVIDIA drivers. This is a GTX 680ME specific issue.

If you have a Samsung SM951 SSD you can run Windows fine in UEFI mode with a GTX 680ME and it will be using an AHCI controller hence running at full speed.

Summary: If you need BootCamp and have a GTX 680ME then get a SM951 SSD.
As for the mention of long boot time when using UEFI, I don't seem to be affected by that.

You can check which mode you've installed Windows in after the fact by running the command msinfo32 (14th line down)
[doublepost=1484328705][/doublepost]As for how to do it...
The easiest, if albeit slower, way is to burn the Windows ISO to a DVD.
Hold down the option key and select to boot from the left option for BIOS mode or the right option for UEFI mode.
(sorry can't remember the exact names it lists. I think one says EFI)

FLASH DRIVE:
If you want to install Windows in UEFI mode, you can use RUFUS (Windows app) to create a bootable UEFI Windows flash drive. Ensure the USB flash drive is using FAT32 and not NTFS, and install the ISO to the flash drive using Rufus. Then, assuming your Mac is a 5,1, boot off the flash drive.

 

[Draeconis]

I've done a lot of testing around this.

BIOS mode will result in very slow SSD performance with high CPU usage as the drive controller will be ATA mode. AHCI is not available on the Mac Pro when Windows is installed in BIOS mode.

If you have a Samsung XP941 SSD and a GTX 680ME you must use BIOS mode otherwise you will get no image on screen once you've installed the NVIDIA drivers. This is a GTX 680ME specific issue.

If you have a Samsung SM951 SSD you can run Windows fine in UEFI mode with a GTX 680ME and it will be using an AHCI controller hence running at full speed.

Summary: If you need BootCamp and have a GTX 680ME then get a SM951 SSD.
As for the mention of long boot time when using UEFI, I don't seem to be affected by that.

You can check which mode you've installed Windows in after the fact by running the command msinfo32 (14th line down)
[doublepost=1484328705][/doublepost]As for how to do it...
The easiest, if albeit slower, way is to burn the Windows ISO to a DVD.
Hold down the option key and and select to boot from the left option for BIOS mode or the right option for UEFI mode.
(sorry can't remember the exact names it lists. I think one says EFI)

FLASH DRIVE:
If you want to install Windows in UEFI mode, you can use RUFUS (Windows app) to create a bootable UEFI Windows flash drive. Ensure the USB flash drive is using FAT32 and not NTFS, and install the ISO to the flash drive using Rufus. Then, assuming your Mac is a 5,1, boot off the flash drive.

This post was really interesting. I had a similar black screen issue months ago when using a 680ME and a Windows 10 UEFI install to an SM951. It worked fine for a month or so, then I got a black screen unless I booted in safe mode. Rebuilt the Windows 10 boot disk and the issue never came back. I've since moved to a GTX 1080FE and haven't had this issue, though my system is convinced I have a second Non-PnP monitor installed, which I don't.

You can create a Windows 10 bootable UEFI USB installer that a MacPro5,1 will accept? I find this rather mind-blowing!

 

[jacobbriggs29]

I've done a lot of testing around this.

BIOS mode will result in very slow SSD performance with high CPU usage as the drive controller will be ATA mode. AHCI is not available on the Mac Pro when Windows is installed in BIOS mode.

If you have a Samsung XP941 SSD and a GTX 680ME you must use BIOS mode otherwise you will get no image on screen once you've installed the NVIDIA drivers. This is a GTX 680ME specific issue.

If you have a Samsung SM951 SSD you can run Windows fine in UEFI mode with a GTX 680ME and it will be using an AHCI controller hence running at full speed.

Summary: If you need BootCamp and have a GTX 680ME then get a SM951 SSD.
As for the mention of long boot time when using UEFI, I don't seem to be affected by that.

You can check which mode you've installed Windows in after the fact by running the command msinfo32 (14th line down)
[doublepost=1484328705][/doublepost]As for how to do it...
The easiest, if albeit slower, way is to burn the Windows ISO to a DVD.
Hold down the option key and and select to boot from the left option for BIOS mode or the right option for UEFI mode.
(sorry can't remember the exact names it lists. I think one says EFI)

FLASH DRIVE:
If you want to install Windows in UEFI mode, you can use RUFUS (Windows app) to create a bootable UEFI Windows flash drive. Ensure the USB flash drive is using FAT32 and not NTFS, and install the ISO to the flash drive using Rufus. Then, assuming your Mac is a 5,1, boot off the flash drive.

I'm thinking about buying a 250gb Samsung 850 EVO and putting it in my 3rd HDD tray. I'm planning on putting an ISO image I have of Windows 8.1 onto a DVD-ROM and booting it from there, and only using bootcamp to download the latest drivers (unless theres a different-easier method). - Jacob

 

[Squuiid]

I've since moved to a GTX 1080FE and haven't had this issue, though my system is convinced I have a second Non-PnP monitor installed, which I don't.

You can create a Windows 10 bootable UEFI USB installer that a MacPro5,1 will accept? I find this rather mind-blowing!

Yep, I have the second monitor issue on my 1080 also but it seems to be purely cosmetic. It doesn't cause any problems for me.

As long as the USB flash drive is formatted as FAT32 and you have a 5,1 you can boot in EFI mode from it. The 4,1 Mac Pro will not boot from flash drives however.

As a side note, if anyone has a 4,1 then they really should flash it to a 5,1 these days in order to have a smooth ride with Sierra, among other benefits. There is literally no reason not to do so.
[doublepost=1484394599][/doublepost]

If you switch between operating systems a lot, I suggest installing rEFInd at some point after everything is working.

Another way of doing this is as follows:

Keep both drives in the Mac. Install macOS as normal.
Open disk utility. Format your Windows disk as FAT.
Reboot with bootable Windows flash drive or DVD and hold down option key.
Select EFI mode Windows option and boot from it. Once you get to the disk selection menu ensure you choose your FAT formatted volume and then wipe it and install Windows to it.
Once you have Windows installed, reboot and hold down option key, and boot into macOS again.
Now go to System Preferences and select the drive you want to be your default boot drive.
DONE!
You can now switch back and forth between BootCamp and macOS as being your primary boot OS.
No need to use rEFInd

 

[owbp]

The only red flag I see is that the combination of Windows 10 specifically installed as EFI combined with a GTX 680 with a Mac EFI leads to a very long boot time. So avoid that particular combination--I'd just install Windows 10 in BIOS mode.

Slightly intruding the topic, but i have two somehow related question.
Is slow UEFI boot related to only GTX680 (EFI) or any EFI GPU? Asking because i have flashed R9 280X.

Second question is related to starting install in (U)EFI mode.
No matter what i try and how i make install DVD/USB if i choose EFI boot on startup i always get this message on my screen:

No matter if rufus makes USB, or i i format it in Win Diskpart or OS X Disk Utility, burn image to DVD.
I'm trying to do this on cMP 4,1 flashed to 5,1.

P.S. I had on my cMPs all Win versions from XP to 10, but it would be nice to try UEFI installation for once.

 

[Squuiid]

Slightly intruding the topic, but i have two somehow related question.
Is slow UEFI boot related to only GTX680 (EFI) or any EFI GPU? Asking because i have flashed R9 280X.

Second question is related to starting install in (U)EFI mode.
No matter what i try and how i make install DVD/USB if i choose EFI boot on startup i always get this message on my screen:
View attachment 683795
No matter if rufus makes USB, or i i format it in Win Diskpart or OS X Disk Utility, burn image to DVD.
I'm trying to do this on cMP 4,1 flashed to 5,1.

P.S. I had on my cMPs all Win versions from XP to 10, but it would be nice to try UEFI installation for once.

Is that Windows 7?
You'll need to use Windows 8.1 or 10 for reliable UEFI on a Mac.

 

[Draeconis]

Yep, I have the second monitor issue on my 1080 also but it seems to be purely cosmetic. It doesn't cause any problems for me.

Interesting. I find it can cause issues on my system; unless I have the Display settings set to 'Only on 2', my Windows UI is very glitchy, and games don't run properly. Weirdly, while Windows 10 sees 2 monitors, games and the Nvidia control panel only see one.

 

[owbp]

Is that Windows 7?
You'll need to use Windows 8.1 or 10 for reliable UEFI on a Mac.

No, Windows 10 Pro.
I have run it in BIOS mode on this Mac, but can't seem to get it to boot into UEFI install.
I'll try with Win8.1 but i don't see why it would be any different from ISO from MS site.

 

[Squuiid]

No, Windows 10 Pro.
I have run it in BIOS mode on this Mac, but can't seem to get it to boot into UEFI install.
I'll try with Win8.1 but i don't see why it would be any different from ISO from MS site.

If you've just burnt the Win 10 ISO directly downloaded from Microsoft then I really can't see why this isn't working.
Perhaps unplug all other devices and try again?
Can you post your full specs? I suspect you have an add-on RAID card or something like that?
[doublepost=1484570967][/doublepost]

Interesting. I find it can cause issues on my system; unless I have the Display settings set to 'Only on 2', my Windows UI is very glitchy, and games don't run properly. Weirdly, while Windows 10 sees 2 monitors, games and the Nvidia control panel only see one.

Oooh, now that you mention it... Forza Horizon 3 is a stutterfest. It's been driving me mad and this has to be the reason why.
Thanks for pointing that out. Which port are you using, DP or DL-DVI? Have you tried disabling the 2nd display in Device Manager?
Or perhaps this:
Select the monitor and change to "Disconnect" in the "Multiple displays" dropdown menu.

I'm not home at the moment but will try all this tonight and update the post.

 

[owbp]

If you've just burnt the Win 10 ISO directly downloaded from Microsoft then I really can't see why this isn't working.
Perhaps unplug all other devices and try again?
Can you post your full specs? I suspect you have an add-on RAID card or something like that?

When i burn directly ISO from Microsoft then i see only EFI boot option but it leads me to blanking cursor in top left corner of the black screen. When i use USB i get that blue error screen. Also downloaded ISO itself from Microsoft and got it through Media Creationo Tool and with both i have the same result. I really don't know what else to try.

My specs are bare bones, since i'm transitioning to this Mac at the moment.
6 GB RAM, stock 2,66 CPU, flashed R9 280X, 3 HDDs and one SSD. Also have connected USB Audio Interface. Nothing else...

 

[Squuiid]

When i burn directly ISO from Microsoft then i see only EFI boot option but it leads me to blanking cursor in top left corner of the black screen. When i use USB i get that blue error screen. Also downloaded ISO itself from Microsoft and got it through Media Creationo Tool and with both i have the same result. I really don't know what else to try.

My specs are bare bones, since i'm transitioning to this Mac at the moment.
6 GB RAM, stock 2,66 CPU, flashed R9 280X, 3 HDDs and one SSD. Also have connected USB Audio Interface. Nothing else...

Ah, that cursor is telling.
One of your PCIe cards has a BIOS which is not compatible with booting in pure EFI mode.
Remove that PCIe card and BOOM, it'll boot fine

Do not use the Media Creation Tool.
It will only create a BIOS bootable version of Windows.
You MUST use Rufus to create a bootable EFI mode Windows flash drive. Select FAT32 in the Rufus menu.
Alternatively use the DVD.

 

[owbp]

Ah, that cursor is telling.
One of your PCIe cards has a BIOS which is not compatible with booting in pure EFI mode.
Remove that PCIe card and BOOM, it'll boot fine

Do not use the Media Creation Tool.
It will only create a BIOS bootable version of Windows.
You MUST use Rufus to create a bootable EFI mode Windows flash drive. Select FAT32 in the Rufus menu.
Alternatively use the DVD.

Ha, thank you so much for that idea! Quite possibly this is the problem.

MSI R9 280X Gaming has dual ROM switch (as any other HD7970/7950) but the catch is that here one is UEFI and other is Legacy/BIOS. I'm not positive but it's quite possible that I flashed BIOS side instead of UEFI.

I'll try the UEFI side and report back.

 

[Squuiid]

Oooh, now that you mention it... Forza Horizon 3 is a stutterfest. It's been driving me mad and this has to be the reason why.
Thanks for pointing that out. Which port are you using, DP or DL-DVI? Have you tried disabling the 2nd display in Device Manager?
Or perhaps this:
Select the monitor and change to "Disconnect" in the "Multiple displays" dropdown menu.

I'm not home at the moment but will try all this tonight and update the post.

Wow, I just cannot get rid of this phantom monitor. As you said, Windows sees it, but games and NVIDIA control panel don't.

 

[Draeconis]

Oooh, now that you mention it... Forza Horizon 3 is a stutterfest. It's been driving me mad and this has to be the reason why.
Thanks for pointing that out. Which port are you using, DP or DL-DVI? Have you tried disabling the 2nd display in Device Manager?
Or perhaps this:
Select the monitor and change to "Disconnect" in the "Multiple displays" dropdown menu.

I'm not home at the moment but will try all this tonight and update the post.

I think that's likely. I was playing DOOM and getting low FPS; set the monitor output correctly and suddenly it was a solid 60

I'll check that setting out when I get home, but I couldn't get Windows 10 to ignore it. Some applications (like CCleaner) see my GPU as a 'Microsoft Basic Display Adapter' which is interesting. In macOS, GPUs often have two entries under the PCIe list, perhaps this is somehow related.

 

[Squuiid]

I think that's likely. I was playing DOOM and getting low FPS; set the monitor output correctly and suddenly it was a solid 60

Ah, I've fortunately never had issues with Doom, a game I actually bought the card for